jimcroisdale Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Hi all, My current rig is an Ibanez CT 5'er into a Streamliner 600/Neox 212t arrangement. It's a decent rig, as many will know. The sound is ok, and it's light. To be honest, it's MOSTLY the convenience that makes me love this rig (I've heard better tone from cheaper gear) but for the band I'm in and the gigs we do it's got to be easy to move. I'd quit if it wasn't..... ;-) The problem I'm finding is that at some gigs I just can't get enough volume and bottom end. This seems to depend on the room, and it isn't always the big places where i struggle. I started with the eq pretty flat, but eventually I got up to boosting the bass and low mids almost fully to get the thick tone I like and need. I'm now ALSO boosting on the guitar's eq - full up on the bass pot. In the right room it's a whacking chunk of bass from a small rig, and I love it. In the wrong room though, it still sounds thin and I end up hitting the strings harder to compensate. This screws up my timing, gives me sore fingers, and ultimately makes it much less enjoyable to play. So what to do for more bass when I need it? I was thinking: Change to a 4x10 - perhaps the Markbass Look for another Genz Benz 2x12 And that's about it..... I was at a jam the other night and the guy there has a Warwick profet (or whatever it's called) head on a tatty Trace 4x10. it sounded absolutely brilliant - loud, chunky, solid, tight, compressed, warm, pillowy..... all the good things. And I could have that rig for about £200, but I'd need a trolley..... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Those Trace cabs is not light at all ........ Trace cabs always loud and full of bass in my ear and I see why you like them as well but if portability is your thing i stay away from them ...... I can't say what power you need because i personally think your amp have enough power but perhaps adding another 2x12 stack vertically will help you hear better or put your cab on top of something to raise it up to ear level ......... I personally think is EQ and cab position. Sometimes boosting bass on the amp and guitar is not the way to go ........ i find it cut or flat the bass EQ and mess around with low mid and Mid will certainly help. Also having the cab at ear level will greatly help you listen better, you may think you need more volume on stage because you can't hear yourself but in fact the audience hear tons of bass from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcroisdale Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Yep - I often ask any musicians in the crowd how the bass sounds, and they always say it's fine! Sometimes when I stand right in front of my amp it sounds great - I can feel the bass in my stomach and I only need to play very gently. This is the best case scenario. Then I take four steps forwards and it all but disappears..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Might also be worth uncoupling the cab from the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 [quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1376907857' post='2180543'] Yep - I often ask any musicians in the crowd how the bass sounds, and they always say it's fine! Sometimes when I stand right in front of my amp it sounds great - I can feel the bass in my stomach and I only need to play very gently. This is the best case scenario. Then I take four steps forwards and it all but disappears..... [/quote] Do you use the cab for monitoring only? try and get it angled to your ears more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Thats because you close to the amp, if EQ is not the problem then i guess is the cab position. I would suggest you try this before buying/adding more cabs. If the cab is place on the floor you may want to stack it higher so the speakers on the cab is at ear level. You can do this by sticking on a flight case, table or beer crag etc. This will help you hear better. I use to do this alot when using my BC212 stack. both cabs stack vertically and it help hearing alot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 [quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1376907857' post='2180543']Sometimes when I stand right in front of my amp it sounds great - I can feel the bass in my stomach and I only need to play very gently. This is the best case scenario. Then I take four steps forwards and it all but disappears.....[/quote] Try taking another four steps forwards and seeing if the bass comes back - you're probably just standing in a null. There's no way that Trace 4x10" can produce more bottom than your Genz cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 On the Streamliner, you have a lot of bass and a lot of headroom IMO. Drop the bass, boost mids, make sure you are setting the gain/volume/master to their full extent, (don't crank the master but get enough juice from the gain etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1376908790' post='2180560'] Try taking another four steps forwards and seeing if the bass comes back - you're probably just standing in a null. There's no way that Trace 4x10" can produce more bottom than your Genz cab. [/quote] Yes, I find that if I get a sound on-stage that is bassy enough, out front it will be a sludgy mess. Whereas an on-stage sound that is middy, and nasally will be a killer tone out front where the audience are. Probably why the Trace sounded so good - hearing it from an audience perspective. If however you feel more depth of sound is wanted/needed, get the same cab again. I can`t imagine a situation where four 12s isn`t enough. Plus, looking at the EQ-ing part, I`d reckon there`s too much low-end going on there, and there isn`t enough clarity in the sound to project the lows across properly. Stick all eq on the bass flat, and get the sound from the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) If you really need more bass then feel free to stick your cabinet right in a corner. However like others have said I don't think that's your problem. Generally if you really cant fix it with eq, then it's the room and you're just weeing in the wind. Get a wireless or a long cable and see how it sounds elsewhere. Hell, just get your guitarist to play your bass whilst you do a walk for a bit if you're that desperate. Bet you it sounds better than you think out front. Failing that, man up. Some rooms just suck for bassists! :-P Edited August 19, 2013 by Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 If the output stage is the same as the shuttle 600 it must be an eq thing, I have a 3.0 , a 6.0 and a 9.2 max with the same cab, even the 3.0 can run at full gig volume if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) As for another cab can the streamliner do 2ohms? I always fancy trying two neoxT cabs with the twin output 12.0 head, 600watts into each. A shuttle and streamliner 18.2 with two of the 900watt modules with either 2 2x12 cabs or 4 4x10 cabs would be a killer rig if they made such a head! Edited August 19, 2013 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcroisdale Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376945430' post='2181454'] As for another cab can the streamliner do 2ohms? I always fancy trying two neoxT cabs with the twin output 12.0 head, 600watts into each. A shuttle and streamliner 18.2 with two of the 900watt modules with either 2 2x12 cabs or 4 4x10 cabs would be a killer rig if they made such a head! [/quote] I would make up a serial cable, so it'd be driving 8 ohms. It's less power output, but it would still be moving a lot more air. No replacement for displacement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcroisdale Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think I'm going to try a few different basses through the rig too. I've only really used the one bass, and it's quite probably that the sound it makes is not doing me any favours at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 There is a small chance that you have a faulty pre-amp valve in the streamliner. I say this, as the streamliner has the deepest , fullest bass response of any amp I have ever owned, or even played. From memory, it is roughly "flat" in EQ response with bass - 10 o'clock, mids (600Hz) at about 3 o'clock and treble straight up. Your neox cab should be able to reproduce gob-loads of bass. So, makes me think there is either a fault somewhere with your gear, or you are simply standing in a "dead spot" and if you stood out front you would here all the ridiculous amounts of bass that your rig is producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 [quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1376951942' post='2181562'] I would make up a serial cable, so it'd be driving 8 ohms. It's less power output, but it would still be moving a lot more air. No replacement for displacement! [/quote] That's a good plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyonbass Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 It could be that your guitarist has a typical "bedroom"tone cranked up, which is likely to drown out some of the frequencies your hearing on stage. Might be worth paying some attention to that before spending your hard earned........... Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I can't believe your rig isn't loud enough to be fair so I think I echo everything said before. The STM is loud and bassy and into that 4ohm cab should be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If all else fails ... fit flatwounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcroisdale Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 I wish one of you could come to a gig in the Huddersfield area and have a listen! I guess I need to do a bit of a/bing between different basses, cabs and amps to try and see where the weak link is, if indeed there is one. It might just be me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Don't get sucked into a heavy bass tone....as that will not travel focused very well, and you suck a lot of power from the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 [quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1376986675' post='2181722'] I wish one of you could come to a gig in the Huddersfield area and have a listen! I guess I need to do a bit of a/bing between different basses, cabs and amps to try and see where the weak link is, if indeed there is one. It might just be me..... [/quote] Does the stream liner have the shelving like the shuttle? If it doesn't then any frequencies below about 40hz are just soaking up power without you hearing anything, you might even be able to roll the bass off without hearing much change in tone but find you have loads more headroom. The shuttles run at 80hz without the low boost engaged which drops it to 37hz from memory, even with a low B I only drop the shelf for a couple of songs (feel good inc ,the slow morcheba version). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 All the Genz amps have hi pass filtering to prevent really low sub bass rumbles...so the bass is usually present but tight, (although sounds bigger with the Streamliners). Pete - The EQ is bandaxall...very smooth and musical. You can crank the mid/treble right up and it still sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 How low is it set though? The 37hz just sucks up power really unless you are playing dub step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I know it has the three valves that interact but there must be a way of cutting the lows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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