What are the top things you look for in a walking bass line

[ML94]

As my question says, what is it when your listening or playing you can say that's a nice walking bass line? Theory wise, how do you approach connecting different chords without being too repetitive ?

[lobematt]

I'm by no means an expert on this but I am putting quite a lot of time into studying this at the minute, the main thing I listen for really is a nice flow. One thing I found once I started transcribing is that being repetitive isn't necessarily a bad thing. It seams a lot of bassists are reusing phrases when they hit on certain chords which helps give a bit of continuity to the lines. Check out a few of the transcriptions on my site www.mattlawtonbass.com but I would highly recommend you transcribe a chorus or two yourself because it really helps answer a lot of these questions

[Hobbayne]

It must go somewhere. Moondance is frowned upon on this forum because it doesnt go anywhere, Where as All My Loving is a great walking line to learn from.

[chris_b]

[size=4]Flow is king, then you have to join up the chords in the most interesting way you can think of. [/size]

[size=4]When you start root to root is OK but then you'll have to progress to doing a better job. [/size]

[size=4]In the end you'll need to be walking between root, harmonies and passing notes, while being as melodic as you can.[/size]

[ML94]

What gets me is starting from a root and then trying to land on the nearest harmony note of the next chord eg 3rd, 5th. Ay excercises that would help me with this. I feel as I've hit a brick wall as my head dosent react as wick to the chord as quick as I want it.

[Bilbo]

Moondance does go somewhere. To hell in a hand-cart

This is a massive question, ML94. Walking lines are one of the ose things that take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. I have been working on walking lines for 30 years and still struggle somedays. Really struggle. I think the simple answer is 'many things'. Firstly, impetus. You want your walking lines to add impetus to the music, to fulfil the roll of making the music swing (in all senses of the word). You need rhythmic strength but you also need to consider whether you want to add interest rhythmically. One of the things I learned from listening to 100s of hours of Paul Chambers was that, when he walks, his lines are made up almost entirely of quarter notes with very little in the way of fills and kicks along the way. Someone like Rufus Reid is much morelikely to stick in triplets, fills, double stops etc whereas Scott LaFaro etc will tear up the rhythm and play anything BUT the quarter note (not really but you get the point). In short, making the music move is an important part of walking but the way you do it is determined by [i]your[/i] musical choices and by the needs of the music you are playing.

Harmonic movement - You want your lines to spell out the chords som the listener and soloist alike can follow the form. This is, however, balanced against the need to create interest - a consistent spelling out of arpeggios is 'correct' in theoretical terms but gets boring very quickly. So, it is a case of maintaining a sense of the harmonic structure without slavishly dictating it - that is the 'art' of it, the bit that takes a lifetime to master.

As does the element of tension and release. You can use you lines to create massive tension (the most common way of doing this is playing a fourth below the root of a chord, say, on the last 8 bars of a 32-bar chorus of 'rhythm changes'). YOu can follow the soloist rhythmically, or the drummer or play against them. There are lots of ways of doing it and most of the methods are simple but, as with the harmony thing, it is the musical application of these concepts that takes a lifetime to master and which defines [i]you[/i] as a player.

You also want to create a little artwork of your own so that your lines have an internal logic and an arc that reflects your intentions. This is particularly important when playing modally. 150 bars of Dm is both the easiest thing to play and the hardest. Keep it interesting, keep it real.

It's a life's work.

[ML94]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1376994417' post='2181872']
Moondance does go somewhere. To hell in a hand-cart

This is a massive question, ML94. Walking lines are one of the ose things that take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. I have been working on walking lines for 30 years and still struggle somedays. Really struggle. I think the simple answer is 'many things'. Firstly, impetus. You want your walking lines to add impetus to the music, to fulfil the roll of making the music swing (in all senses of the word). You need rhythmic strength but you also need to consider whether you want to add interest rhythmically. One of the things I learned from listening to 100s of hours of Paul Chambers was that, when he walks, his lines are made up almost entirely of quarter notes with very little in the way of fills and kicks along the way. Someone like Rufus Reid is much morelikely to stick in triplets, fills, double stops etc whereas Scott LaFaro etc will tear up the rhythm and play anything BUT the quarter note (not really but you get the point). In short, making the music move is an important part of walking but the way you do it is determined by [i]your[/i] musical choices and by the needs of the music you are playing.

Harmonic movement - You want your lines to spell out the chords som the listener and soloist alike can follow the form. This is, however, balanced against the need to create interest - a consistent spelling out of arpeggios is 'correct' in theoretical terms but gets boring very quickly. So, it is a case of maintaining a sense of the harmonic structure without slavishly dictating it - that is the 'art' of it, the bit that takes a lifetime to master.

As does the element of tension and release. You can use you lines to create massive tension (the most common way of doing this is playing a fourth below the root of a chord, say, on the last 8 bars of a 32-bar chorus of 'rhythm changes'). YOu can follow the soloist rhythmically, or the drummer or play against them. There are lots of ways of doing it and most of the methods are simple but, as with the harmony thing, it is the musical application of these concepts that takes a lifetime to master and which defines [i]you[/i] as a player.

You also want to create a little artwork of your own so that your lines have an internal logic and an arc that reflects your intentions. This is particularly important when playing modally. 150 bars of Dm is both the easiest thing to play and the hardest. Keep it interesting, keep it real.

It's a life's work.
[/quote]

I'm just starting my musical journey. I just was asking around so I know I'm studying the right things to try and create nice flowing lines. I totally understand where your coming from, I think apart from woodshedding I actually need to listen to some more.

Any recommendations on what to listen to ?

[EliasMooseblaster]

After years of learning to play jazz on the fly, I've found the best walking bass lines are the ones which manage to sound like an effortless stream of notes, instead of a series of chord changes...if you see what I mean!

In other words, the bassist takes the shortest route to the next chord - often starting the bar on the 3rd or 5th of the new chord, so the chord change almost sounds incidental. On which note...

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1376993991' post='2181863']
What gets me is starting from a root and then trying to land on the nearest harmony note of the next chord eg 3rd, 5th. Ay excercises that would help me with this. I feel as I've hit a brick wall as my head dosent react as wick to the chord as quick as I want it.
[/quote]

I must admit I had an epiphany when I realised you didn't have to start each change on the root of the current chord! Afraid I don't know any exercises for this, but presumably you have your own bank of "standard" walking forms for the common chords? It helps to sit down and think through how you might walk over a few straightforward swing tunes from the Real Book, and start mashing up your standard figures to run into each other smoothly. Not wishing to sound blase, but with a bit of practice it begins to come naturally!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1376994857' post='2181881']
Any recommendations on what to listen to ?
[/quote]

Not Moondance for a start

Try Miles Davis albums like Workin', Steamin', 'Relaxin' and Cookin', you won't go far wrong.

[Mudpup]

The end!

[jakenewmanbass]

Anything Ray Brown did, a master of swing and joyful feeling coupled with great note choice and colossal variation.
It's a lot to do with feeling, it's a lot to do with momentum, it's a lot to do with being harmonically interesting and inspiring to your band mates, it's a lot to do with having a big open selfless strong hearted approach to being the backbone of the band.
Listen to chord changes very very closely, try to imagine ways in which you might make it feel good to go between them. Be bold with your statements, playing roots with a really good feel is the best starting point.

[jakenewmanbass]

Also learn to understand what a note means to a chord, and then to a sequence of chords... this is a wider subject that has many possibles, best done with a tutor...

[GonzoBass]

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1376986849' post='2181726']
Theory wise, how do you approach connecting different chords without being too repetitive ?
[/quote]
[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1376993991' post='2181863']
What gets me is starting from a root and then trying to land on the nearest harmony note of the next chord eg 3rd, 5th. Ay excercises that would help me with this.
[/quote]

Have a look/listen here
(note there are two pages) -

[url="http://www.activebass.com/l23026--Autumn-Resolutions"]http://www.activebas...umn-Resolutions[/url]

I hope this helps.

[lobematt]

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1376993991' post='2181863']
What gets me is starting from a root and then trying to land on the nearest harmony note of the next chord eg 3rd, 5th. Ay excercises that would help me with this. I feel as I've hit a brick wall as my head dosent react as wick to the chord as quick as I want it.
[/quote]

There's a great one from Gary Willis's book Fingerboard Harmony that I use. It's pretty tough though so don't get too downhearted at first!

Take two common chords like C-7 F7 and give one chord per bar eg C-7|F7|C-7|F7...

Basically you want to start from your lowest possible chord tone of the first chord and play four beats moving up landing on the next available chord tone of the F7 for four beats until you run out of notes (staying in the first position) and descend again. Then progress to chord tones on beats 1,2 and 3 and a passing note on 4, then chord tones on beat 1 and 3 passing notes on 2 and 4. It helped me unlock a it of freedom in my walking lines but it is much harder than it sounds!

I'd recommend starting with no pulse until you're comfortable and then bring in a slow metronome so you can start to think about your feel as well. In Gary's book he starts on these chords and then continues through more common ii-V's but you can use whatever chords you want!

[tinyd]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1376995088' post='2181884']
After years of learning to play jazz on the fly, I've found the best walking bass lines are the ones which manage to sound like an effortless stream of notes, instead of a series of chord changes...if you see what I mean!
[/quote]


This is very well put. My lines still sound contrived and obvious whereas the great players manage to weave a line through the harmony without that "chord change here...." feeling.

To my ears, Ron Carter is the master of creating lines that use the less obvious note choices but that still strongly outline the harmony.

[matejj53]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1376994417' post='2181872']
Moondance does go somewhere. To hell in a hand-cart

This is a massive question, ML94. Walking lines are one of the ose things that take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. I have been working on walking lines for 30 years and still struggle somedays. Really struggle. I think the simple answer is 'many things'. Firstly, impetus. You want your walking lines to add impetus to the music, to fulfil the roll of making the music swing (in all senses of the word). You need rhythmic strength but you also need to consider whether you want to add interest rhythmically. One of the things I learned from listening to 100s of hours of Paul Chambers was that, when he walks, his lines are made up almost entirely of quarter notes with very little in the way of fills and kicks along the way. Someone like Rufus Reid is much morelikely to stick in triplets, fills, double stops etc whereas Scott LaFaro etc will tear up the rhythm and play anything BUT the quarter note (not really but you get the point). In short, making the music move is an important part of walking but the way you do it is determined by [i]your[/i] musical choices and by the needs of the music you are playing.

Harmonic movement - You want your lines to spell out the chords som the listener and soloist alike can follow the form. This is, however, balanced against the need to create interest - a consistent spelling out of arpeggios is 'correct' in theoretical terms but gets boring very quickly. So, it is a case of maintaining a sense of the harmonic structure without slavishly dictating it - that is the 'art' of it, the bit that takes a lifetime to master.

As does the element of tension and release. You can use you lines to create massive tension (the most common way of doing this is playing a fourth below the root of a chord, say, on the last 8 bars of a 32-bar chorus of 'rhythm changes'). YOu can follow the soloist rhythmically, or the drummer or play against them. There are lots of ways of doing it and most of the methods are simple but, as with the harmony thing, it is the musical application of these concepts that takes a lifetime to master and which defines [i]you[/i] as a player.

You also want to create a little artwork of your own so that your lines have an internal logic and an arc that reflects your intentions. This is particularly important when playing modally. 150 bars of Dm is both the easiest thing to play and the hardest. Keep it interesting, keep it real.

It's a life's work.
[/quote]

I very much agree, I am also just learning it and listening to guys like Scott LaFro, Rufus Reid, Ray Brown... really helps plus you can transcribe(you don't need to write on sheet) and realise that they do repeat some parts too. My teacher is explaining walking lines as don't play boxed lines (like rock and roll - unless is needed) And great lines usually goes out(of the key) and comes back. He also say allot it is not where you are but where you are going- meaning think of what you gonna play in next bar how you want to outline the chord there and how to connect what you play now. but also you have to listen to others in rhythm section and also soloists when you play...

[JTUK]

SWING.