When Is a Bass Worth it?

[winterfire666]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1377251022' post='2185250']
Interesting...I've noticed a trend for distinctly second-rate bassists who play Fender Jazzes. Obviously I've seen plenty of absolute masters playing Fender J's, but I think there's a correlation with how juvenile their beard looks. It's as if the flowchart is:

Fender Jazz?
Yes
Beard?
Yes
Quality of beard?
Poor/clearly just started shaving/f***ing hipster --> Probably just bought the Jazz because someone convinced them it was "boutique" and/or looks less "mainstream" than a P (or something, I don't know how these pillocks think). Can't actually play the damn thing; too busy posing and looking "ironic" with it.
[/quote]

well spotted, this may be a secret ploy by fender trying to introduce beard styles to the many in order to sell more jazz basses

[Jellyfish]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377250709' post='2185245']
Why do premiership footballers drive Bentleys?
[/quote]

Premiership footballers use their Bentley's while doing their job?

[MiltyG565]

Anything is only ever worth what anybody is willing to pay for it. I personally don't see the point in getting a bass custom made by some small guitar firm, especially if it's already a popular design, like a jazz bass, for their skills or because of the special woods that they use.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377215248' post='2185018']
Only in the most low end market is there a big difference in quality. Once it gets to a certain point, a bass is as good as a bass can be. It's just a matter of what you like.
[/quote]

I'd agree with that. The beginner is spoiled for choice of quality instruments these days. There's even less excuse to jack it all in after a month because at least you won't be fighting the instrument you're supposed to be playing. Diminishing returns as the price increases though, agreed.

[quote]
So which budget basses are great and which are garbage?
[/quote]

I do not agree with the pigeonholing of entire brands/models of instrument. I don't think it's useful. Each instrument is a unique instance (every bit of wood is unique, will have seen attention from different people along the assembly line for instance) and must be evaluated on its own merits. There will be Friday afternoon specials from so-called superior brands. There will be diamonds in the rough from brands that some will turn their nose up at.

[quote]
I feel the VM Squiers are cheap basses. But for a few pounds more you can have a CV, which is as good as any Fender other than an american standard from a good year. The custom shop is just an AS with hype.

Music Man came out with the Ray line and they matched the original in quality. Now there's a SUB series for even less and THEY are every bit as good. It's actually quite ridiculous.
[/quote]

I'm going to extend the "I feel" at the beginning of this paragraph to include the whole of these quoted paragraphs, as I hope you meant that.

[quote]
So has everything changed? Are super expensive basses a thing of the past? I appreciate the dedication Luthiers have for their craft but why should I have to spend all that money on someone's personal carpentry hobby?
[/quote]

You don't have to. I don't get where this indignation is coming from. If you don't think it's worth it then fine, walk away but there must be a market out there for "bespoke", not "off the shelf" or however you want to describe them basses otherwise they wouldn't get made in the first place. No-one's forcing you to commission a custom made bass.

[quote]
Is there a future for elite instruments or are we looking at a future where instruments will be like TV's? Far better and far cheaper.
[/quote]

I don't know, and because I'm highly unlikely to want such an instrument (as I feel I'm not worth it, coupled with the financial imprudence of it all), I don't particularly care beyond the disconnected, offhand "that's a shame" level if they did die out.

[Jellyfish]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377215248' post='2185018']
I appreciate the dedication Luthiers have for their craft but why should I have to spend all that money on someone's personal carpentry hobby?
[/quote]

Because it's not a hobby, it's a profession, and you don't [i]have[/i] to spend that money. I genuinely envy people who find that Fender's or MusicMan's are their perfect basses as it means that they can pick up most of their favourite branded instruments and be comfortable with them. But there are people (like me) who have played basses and want something that isn't available off the shelf and I think that that's the beauty of having a luthier built you an instrument.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377251067' post='2185252']
Not sure if personalised plates could make you a good driver - in fact the kind of person who buys a personalised plate is likely to be the opposite in my humble experience - but I take your point.
[/quote]

I suppose you don't have to be a good driver if you think you already own the road.

[stingrayPete1977]

Nothing particularly bespoke floats my boat right now but you need to take a step back and think of the monthly costs of a small builder, a workshop, a few peoples wages, the materials, a van, costs for advertising and stands at shows, the builders hourly rate based on the fact most of us here couldn't do it, investing in new machines and equipment, testing and time spent trying new techniques out of hours at their own cost. It's not long before you can see why a factory paying less than our minimum wage often with awful conditions (who here has a cort built bass?) that knocked off the whole design anyway can charge a fraction of that.

I have been known to tease Alex bare faced but I appreciate what I said above goes for him and other bespoke builders of anything really.

If all the cheap basses were built in a factory that met our minimum standards as a work place I'd imagine they would all go up at least £50. Looking just at someone like musicman the cost of living for the staff in California alone must account for a lot, if not I'd live there myself, already seen an area near San Jose I like

[KevB]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1377250641' post='2185244']
Then why do professionals use Fodera's?
[/quote]

For every professional who uses a custom built instrument specifically for them I'll bet there are a dozen that don't, let alone a specific manufacturer such as Fodera.

[jazzyvee]

Simple, a bass is worth it when you are happy to pay the cost of owning it. That goes for cheap or expensive basses.
Jazzyvee

[ezbass]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1377254687' post='2185315']
Simple, a bass is worth it when you are happy to pay the cost of owning it. That goes for cheap or expensive basses.
Jazzyvee
[/quote]Beat me to it.

When is a bass worth it? When the buyer feels they've acquired an instrument without being ripped off. That is the same for any product. With regard to relative prices it has to be remembered that products, instruments especially, are subject to the law of diminishing returns; a £5000 custom build will not be 10 times better than a £500 factory build, but it 'should' be better (if only in the hardware used) built, whether it sounds or plays better (see Bilbo's comment) is subjective. Does my Lakland sound and play better than my Ibanez? No, but it is different and I was happy to pay the purchase price (over more expensive basses BTW). If any abbreviation holds the key to this thread it is surely YMMV

[TimR]

[quote name='Phil Adams' timestamp='1377241694' post='2185115']
Clearly a lot depends on the player's level. It would certainly take me a long time to discern any difference between models, and for me it would simply be a case of personal preference. Subtle differences in tone and action would probably be lost on me. I'm sure I could tell you which one I preferred but probably couldn't say why.
I'd probably be scared to play a £2000 bass, and that would affect my playing anyway.
[/quote]

Exactly. You can usually tell the quality of an instrument when you play it. The more experience you have and the better player you are the more you will recognise the quality of the instrument.

When I bought my bass about 10 years ago, it was after 7 years of searching for a 'better' bass than the one I already was playing.

I would go to a shop, try a few and not see any difference in any of the basses.

Then I started to play shed loads of gigs, practice hard, learning lots of material and playing in lots of different bands. In two years I changed as a player.

I started to feel the differences in the basses. I just moved up the price range, feeling the difference each time. Around the £2k mark I found that the next step up in quality (that I could feel) didn't match what I considered a worthwhile step up in price (that I was willing to pay).

And after all that? I went for a £500 Ibanez that was a balance between quality, sound, price and willingness to get stolen/trashed when gigging.

"What are you going to do with your bass?" is the biggest question to ask.

Edited August 23, 2013 by TimR

[Jellyfish]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1377254450' post='2185310']
For every professional who uses a custom built instrument specifically for them I'll bet there are a dozen that don't, let alone a specific manufacturer such as Fodera.
[/quote]

I didn't say that there wasn't, but if there is no point in custom, expensive, well-made instruments then why do people choose to play Fodera's?

The thing is, you can take it as far as you want. Why do people play American Fender's when the Squier is (apparently) just as good for much less money? I'd much rather pay a company or person (such as Alan at ACG) to build me a Jazz bass to my specifications, for less money than I can buy a Fender. All instruments are technically made by hand, but does the whole line of people in Fender's American factory care about the quality as much as Alan at ACG or the guys who are currently building me a custom bass? Probably not, and the evidence is shown in the many comments and threads about the American Fender line not being up to scratch for a £1,000+ bass guitar. Fender are a specific example, but if I buy a bass from a reputable luthier, I know that I'm also putting my trust in one man to get it right and you'll often get great support if you do ever get problems.

I think there's a big list of advantages to buying custom over 'off-the'shelf' stuff, especially when you factor in the price, but for most people it's a case of "I like the Fender Jazz, I have no reason to change."

[Raymondo]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1377249183' post='2185219']
when is a bass worth it? sometimes it just is.
im of the school that you dont really need to pay more than say £500-600 for a high quality instrument, and while i can appreciate the asthetics of stupidly expensive woods and such i like a bass to be playable and i dont want to be scared of damaging it in the name of a good performance.

however, my all time favorite bass is my old vester argus, it had great low action, it has distinctive looks and great tone but its not well balanced (sat down or stood up) its a heavy beast making long sets tiresome and its getting on now too. it does mean a lot to me though, in a time when i had little cash due to bieng a student i saw it in he shop and knew i couldnt afford it, in the end my mother put up the cash (mums are awesome). recently i have retired my vester due to the weight issues and the achievable action isnt what it once was.
just under 2 years ago my mother passed away of cancer aged only 50, she always supported my love of music and with the money left to me i decieded to get something to remind me of her and something that she would have approved of, that i could also pass on to my children too.
and so i ordered my xylem custom build, its going to be everything that my vester should have been with no comprimises and a tribute.
i choose xylem because i think the basses he produces stand out from the pack and the carving style will compliment the vester shape and style perfectly. there was no price limit on this (and i genuinely never thought i would do that) and this bass will never be for sale.
Its funny how my outlook on customs has changed and even though it has and i will cherish my new bass when it arrives i wont be teating it with kid gloves, its gonna get played, and any dings, marks, scratches it picks up along the way will be just another reminder of what it means to me.
[/quote]
^^
This is a fabulous thing to do!

Twenty years ago my bass (a Honer mm copy) died during practice on a Tuesday night and I had a gig on the Friday....
I had always wanted a "proper" Fender Precision,a "made in the USA" one.
At the time you could buy second hand ones for around £450 ...I managed to borrow £450 and went in search of my dream....nada....zip ....not a one for miles around!
Eventually I swallowed my pride and on the Friday morning I bought a "made in Japan" 57 re-issue...Black and white,Maple neck. Took it out of the box and gigged with it .

It's been my only bass ever since ,never done anything except change the strings and it's been fabulous (for me!).

I had to fight my inner snob to buy it ....but I,m glad I did.

[discreet]

[quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1377258910' post='2185406']
I had to fight my inner snob to buy it ...but I'm glad I did.
[/quote]

Raymondo of Basschat - fighting the inner snob since 1993.

[4 Strings]

Or did he win in 1993 and his inner snob suppressed ever since?

I lost the fight ages ago, anyone who sounds good on a Squier is interested for being a freak.

[Raymondo]

Something weird happened when I tried to make this post.....move along....nothing to see here.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Raymondo

[Raymondo]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1377260081' post='2185433']
Or did he win in 1993 and his inner snob suppressed ever since?

I lost the fight ages ago, anyone who sounds good on a Squier is interested for being a freak.
[/quote]

Hmmmm interesting question
[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377259075' post='2185409']
Raymondo of Basschat - fighting the inner snob since 1993.
[/quote]

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377250709' post='2185245']
Why do premiership footballers drive Bentleys?
[/quote]

Because they now class when they see it.

Just look at El Hadj Diouf's Lincoln Navigator...

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1377251190' post='2185255']
well spotted, this may be a secret ploy by fender trying to introduce beard styles to the many in order to sell more jazz basses
[/quote]

I look forward to pouring scorn on a line of Fender Fake Beards (fully ironic, made from 100% free-range bespoke hemp) being sold to follicularly-challenged hipsters to match their "boutique" Jazz basses.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1377263294' post='2185521']
Because they now class when they see it.

Just look at El Hadj Diouf's Lincoln Navigator...


[/quote]

Haha, I love the way they made the car anonymous by pixelling the number plate!

Now, my mind says 'tosser'. Is this similar to how I think when I see coffee tables being played?

[JTUK]

I have a few people come round and play on one of my basses.
They don't put them down very quickly..... or no here near as quickly as I give up on theirs...

That says it all to me....... well, actually it doesn't, I don't really care if they think they have a great bass or not,
but if they asked me..?? just as well they don't, tbh...!!

Having said that.... the better name on a bass is an indicator, it is not gospel every single time.
But good basses tend to stick ... they don't get moved on so quickly.

[White Cloud]

The only important factor is the name playing the bass...not the name on the headstock.

I know a player who owns several custom Alembics and the Mesa rig of all rigs....he plays in an average pub band and I will be charitable on this occasion and describe him as "limited" in his ability to play bass.

You wouldn't believe his ego though...as though his gear elevates him to demi-god status lol.

[peteb]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1377250641' post='2185244']
Then why do professionals use Fodera's?
[/quote]
To be fair, I think that most pros play Fenders these days (at least in public)! This is (obviously) not because Fender make better basses than Fodera, but because they are in fashion at the moment and will help to get better gigs…

[Grangur]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1377272630' post='2185704']
To be fair, I think that most pros play Fenders these days (at least in public)! This is (obviously) not because Fender make better basses than Fodera, but because they are in fashion at the moment and will help to get better gigs…
[/quote] ... and very much more replaceable without hassling and insurance company

[peteb]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1377272841' post='2185707']
... and very much more replaceable without hassling and insurance company
[/quote]
TBH – I don’t think that is the reason at all…

Edited August 23, 2013 by peteb