To Mac or not to Mac?

[borisbrain]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1377264346' post='2185546']
Macs are essentially ,closed' systems, so Apple maintains strict quality control over all aspect of what's running on them.
[/quote]

This may be true of iOS devices (iPhones & iPads), since all apps indeed have to be approved by Apple. However the [i]Mac[/i] OS is an open system in the same way as Windows. You can run whatever you like on them (or whatever is available from the developer community.)

Additionally, using either Bootcamp or Parallels, they can be configured to run Windows too. MiltyG565 started a thread on this here:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/215112-how-do-i-partition-my-hard-drive-and-install-windows/

BB

[RhysP]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1377258838' post='2185404']
There's a reason that you see most studio's and their tech's using Mac.
[/quote]

All the studios I've done session work in over the years since digital became the norm have all used PC based systems.
Been in four different studios this year & there wasn't a Mac to be seen in any of them. I've never had to sit around twiddling my thumbs for hours while they tried to get the PCs working properly or had them crash on me even once.

I recorded with a producer who has had some major success over the years in January & when asked why he didn't use Macs he gave the same answer all the others gave me: Logic is a pain in the arse to work with.

I'm not saying Macs don't get used in studios but this "most studios use Apple" myth is just not true.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='borisbrain' timestamp='1377265175' post='2185559']
This may be true of iOS devices (iPhones & iPads), since all apps indeed have to be approved by Apple. However the [i]Mac[/i] OS is an open system in the same way as Windows. You can run whatever you like on them (or whatever is available from the developer community.)

Additionally, using either Bootcamp or Parallels, they can be configured to run Windows too. MiltyG565 started a thread on this here:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/215112-how-do-i-partition-my-hard-drive-and-install-windows/
[/quote]
I didn't mean to suggest macs were as closed as an iPhone, but the range of stuff available is smaller than for PCs. I'm aware that windows can be run on a mac, though I don,t really see the point, unless the looks are more important to someone than the functions.

I guess I'm just not a big fan one one machine for everything.

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1377265234' post='2185561']
All the studios I've done session work in over the years since digital became the norm have all used PC based systems.
Been in four different studios this year & there wasn't a Mac to be seen in any of them. I've never had to sit around twiddling my thumbs for hours while they tried to get the PCs working properly or had them crash on me even once.

I recorded with a producer who has had some major success over the years in January & when asked why he didn't use Macs he gave the same answer all the others gave me: Logic is a pain in the arse to work with.

I'm not saying Macs don't get used in studios but this "most studios use Apple" myth is just not true.
[/quote]

Pro Tools was the first and was designed to feel familiar to people that had previously been working with analogue equipment. Consequently that's what everyone got used to using. These days it doesn't mean it's any better; it's just what a lot of older/successful studios are used to. There's nothing to stop you achieving the same results with a PC, it simply depends on the skill of the person doing the recording.

[cheddatom]

Magic Garden studios (had a few hits) were running Mac OS on a PC when I was there a few years back.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1377264493' post='2185548']
flyfisher you could run W7 on your current machines I'm sure.
[/quote]

Yes, quite probably and I may go that route if and when the time comes. But it's annoying to be forced to upgrade when my current PCs still work fine. But hey, Microsoft have to make money, even though no one really wants to buy an operating system any more than they want to buy a car engine - people want cars (PCs).

[cheddatom]

Do you really need support for XP though? Unless it's got some sensitive data on it and it's used for browsing, I'd just keep the AV up to date and leave it.

[jaydentaku]

[size=4][quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1377263779' post='2185535']
I'd love to know what "misinformation" I've provided though. Pretty much all of it is an assessment of Apples own website! You might not like the tone of my post.
[/quote]

Ok. fair enough, I didn't want to, but ok...

[font=Calibri]"Bloatware" what bloatware? [/font]What third party, pointless, useless software do you get on a new Mac? I have never seen any! Are you saything that a Dell, Asus, Acer, Zoostorm, HP doesn't come fully loaded with Symantc trials and start up windows getting you to register, dell download manager tools, Mcafee trails, etc. Come on?

[font=Calibri]I will gloss over your “irritating brand-sheeps” comment. [/font]

[font=Calibri]Apple say they use "the latest in technology and top of the range components" What is wrong with that, they use current technology and on disassembling various macs over the years, I would agree, they are top end quality. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]“Aren't they still using 1300 MHz RAM for gods sake? Unless they haven't updated their website in a while, they're lying through their teeth.” [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]The latest imac uses 1600 MHz, my mid 2010 imac uses 1333 MHz[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]A mac mini quad core is £679 not “£1500”[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]Asus have to be decidedly average, if not decent budget boards, they are nowhere near the best. Gigabyte have to be the best if recommending PC motherboards. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]Suicides at ‘Apple‘ plants? Yes, there have indeed been suicides at plants that manufacture Apple products. There are also suicides at other Chinese plants that don’t manufacture Apple products. Are you saying that there are more than average suicide rates there? If so, first I would be interested to see proof of this, as I have read to the contrary in various articles which I can find if you wish. Plus, this isn’t helping the OP really. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]“Macs could triple in price and some plonkers would still buy them because they're silver and shiny and have an apple on the back."[/font][/size][size=4][font=Calibri] These people are idiots, but why would Apple do that, so I fail to see the point of this.[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]“Windows as an operating system is no less stable than Mac.” OK, so this is useful information, but is this your experience. Do you use/own an Apple computer?[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]“And when something does go wrong on Mac, you're usually buggered.” Why, how? Eh?[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Calibri]“Blue screens are caused by failures in hardware (usually memory or storage).” No, they really aren’t cause by just by hardware, they can be but they can quite as likely be software related.[/font][/size]

Edited August 23, 2013 by jaydentaku

[Ziphoblat]

The main problem with Windows XP is RAM limitations.

[jaydentaku]

As i say, i like PC's, i like macs. I just get annoyed when people just make stuff up to bolster their opinion, founded or otherwise. It just isn't helpful to anybody.

Edited August 23, 2013 by jaydentaku

[flyfisher]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1377265910' post='2185572']
Do you really need support for XP though? Unless it's got some sensitive data on it and it's used for browsing, I'd just keep the AV up to date and leave it.
[/quote]

Yes, I often wonder how ''essential' all those windows update patches really are. I'll probably find out next year when they stop providing them. I doubt the machine will suddenly stop working!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1377266326' post='2185583']
The main problem with Windows XP is RAM limitations.
[/quote]

Er, not entirely. Yes, it's a limitation if you want to run loads of things at once, or an application actually needs a huge amount of RAM, but that's the problem with bloatware and is the reason why a perfectly powerful PC from five or ten years ago is now deemed to be unuseable, even though the hardware is still as powerful as it ever was.

In terms of what the vast majority of people use PCs for (I.e. 'office' stuff, email and web browsing), 10 year old PC hardware is more than adequate, yet the OS providers play us like mugs by making their software require ever more powerful hardware just to run the same basic applications.

[cheddatom]

I think if you're using it for browsing, you're not 100% confident in your AV and firewall, and you visit the odd dodgy website, then they're probably quite important. Otherwise you'll be fine.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1377262343' post='2185492']
Blue screens are caused by failures in hardware (usually memory or storage).
[/quote]

Not true. I know this for a fact because a few weeks ago my 'office' PC wouldn't boot and went straight to a blue screen because it couldn't read the hard drive.

A hardware fault certainly crossed my mind, but it turned out to be file system data corruption and I fixed it simply by running CHKDSK from within the windows recovery console.

I lost no data and the hard drive has been working perfectly ever since.

[charic]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1377266503' post='2185589']
As i say, i like PC's, i like macs. I just get annoyed when people just make stuff up to bolster their opinion, founded or otherwise. It just isn't helpful to anybody.
[/quote]

I think the reason we're getting this discussion is that you are coming across very firmly in the mac camp mate. Personally I use a PC, I've put it together myself and it's solid as a rock (relatively cheaply too I might add, I think total cost is currently at £600 although a new motherboard and graphics card is on the cards at some point). I think that macs have their place if you like their workflow. I'm not a huge fan but I can use them.

I find macs a little more fiddly to troubleshoot and you're less likely to have that essential "mate" who can just pop over and have a look with a mac.

I'd be interested in seeing your list of pros and cons with each type of system. I do think though that if you know your PCs a little then you can make a mac spec computer much cheaper than buy one off the shelf

[Ziphoblat]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2][size=2][i][color=#222222]Ok. fair enough, I didn't want to, but ok...

"Bloatware" what bloatware? What third party, pointless, useless software do you get on a new Mac? I have never seen any! Are you saything that a Dell, Asus, Acer, Zoostorm, HP doesn't come fully loaded with Symantc trials and start up windows getting you to register, dell download manager tools, Mcafee trails, etc. Come on?"[/color][/i][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]What bloatware? Well, all of it. I'm not saying it's bad software per say, but the fact you're compelled to purchase it is is simply a money-grabbing tactic (force somebody to pay for something they don't want/aren't going to use). GarageBand is a tidy bit of light music software, but a non-muso has no way of getting a mac computer for a reduced cost without seemingly useless software bundled in.[/color][/size]

[size=2][color=#222222]"[i]Apple say they use "the latest in technology and top of the range components" What is wrong with that, they use current technology and on disassembling various macs over the years, I would agree, they are top end quality. [/i][/color]

[i][color=#222222]Aren't they still using 1300 MHz RAM for gods sake? Unless they haven't updated their website in a while, they're lying through their teeth.[/color]

[color=#222222]The latest imac uses 1600 MHz, my mid 2010 imac uses 1333 MHz[/color]

[color=#222222]A mac mini quad core is £679 not “£1500”"[/color][/i][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]I was specifically talking about the laptops here. Yes, laptop hardware is more pricey, but still £1200 for something with 1300MHz RAM and a dual core CPU is daylight robbery, and not the “latest” in technology.[/color][/size][/size]

[size=2][i][color=#222222]"Asus have to be decidedly average, if not decent budget boards, they are nowhere near the best. Gigabyte have to be the best if recommending PC motherboards."[/color][/i][/size]

[size=2][size=4][color=#222222]Sorry, but that's just not correct. ASRock perhaps; although they are specifically designed to be budget boards and perform well for the price. Asus boards are up there with Gigabyte and MSI as the best you can get. Read any e-literature on the subject and it will only echo that sentiment. Regardless, they certainly knock seven shades of sh*t out of Foxconn.[/color][/size]

[size=2][i][color=#222222]Suicides at ‘Apple‘ plants? Yes, there have indeed been suicides at plants that manufacture Apple products. There are also suicides at other Chinese plants that don’t manufacture Apple products. Are you saying that there are more than average suicide rates there? If so, first I would be interested to see proof of this, as I have read to the contrary in various articles which I can find if you wish. Plus, this isn’t helping the OP really."[/color][/i][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]Simply a passing criticism of their website. Yes, I'm sure they're generally not much worse than other manufacturers but I don't see others rabbiting on about how morally conscientious they are. And neither is feeding him misinformation about the reliability of a windows based system.[/color][/size]

[size=2][i][color=#222222]"Windows as an operating system is no less stable than Mac. OK, so this is useful information, but is this your experience. Do you use/own an Apple computer?"[/color][/i][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]Yes, as mentioned, on a daily basis.[/color][/size]

[size=2][i][color=#222222]"Blue screens are caused by failures in hardware (usually memory or storage).” No, they really aren’t cause by just by hardware, they can be but they can quite as likely be software related."[/color][/i][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]The only bsod I've ever experienced that was caused by anything other than a hardware failure was a driver confliction, which is easily avoided anyway.[/color][/size][/size][/font]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1377267685' post='2185617']
Not true. I know this for a fact because a few weeks ago my 'office' PC wouldn't boot and went straight to a blue screen because it couldn't read the hard drive.

A hardware fault certainly crossed my mind, but it turned out to be file system data corruption and I fixed it simply by running CHKDSK from within the windows recovery console.

I lost no data and the hard drive has been working perfectly ever since.
[/quote]

Yeah, I had the same thing with a hard drive too. A month or so later the same thing happened again, worse. Turned out the harddrive was just on its last legs. I'd only had it a few months... but it was a cheap POS from PC World so you get what you pay for.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Ziphoblat

[EliasMooseblaster]

I'll qualify my contribution by saying that I've only ever run recording software on PCs myself; unsurprisingly the majority of studios I've been into have used Macs to run their recording setup.

I'd say this: it depends if you've got the time to tinker with Linux. You may not even need that much time: the modern versions of Ubuntu are phenomenally easy to get up-and-running. As ever, all the software's free, but you may need to dedicate a little bit of time to setting up the recording software to run the way you want it to.

You see, my problem with Windows PCs is Windows. My problem with Macs is Mac hardware. My other half (and her father) both own a lot of Apple hardware and I've seen it fall apart and fail with depressing regularity. Out of the box, everything runs more smoothly, looks better, and crashes less frequently, but it doesn't seem to have been built to last. Contrast this with an old Dell PC I have which is still functioning after 10 years. Another advantage has been the ease with which I could open it up and stick new bits in.

On the other hand, plenty of people have already covered the problem with the operating system on most PCs. That particular Dell PC now has Win XP and Ubuntu 10; I've actually had to prevent the Win XP partition from talking to the wireless adapter, because if it tries to connect to the internet, it becomes just about unusable. (The Ubuntu partition runs pretty smoothly, even when online.)

In short: get a Mac and you'll quickly sidestep the software issues. But if you have the time and patience to set up Ubuntu Studio on a PC, you can get more processing power for your money, and you may find the hardware lasts longer.

[xgsjx]

You can get a Mac & run Parallels on it, thus having OSX & Windows at the same time (I have). I've had my iMac for 6 years now & had no issues with it other than it could do with a clearout.
I've got a 2 1/2 year old HP laptop that's one step away from the bin. Whenever you're not using it, you have to sit it upside down to stop it from shutting itself down & it's running like a 3 legged tortoise (with no feet).

Why is it PCs & Laptops do this? Every one I've had have required some stupid prop. Had a laptop which would only work if there was something propping up the left corner of it, a PC that would only run if it was raised at the front. The list goes on! Anyone else?

The answer to your question though... It's up to you. Have a play about with different things & see what you like.

[crez5150]

Can I just say..... Mark King or Flea......

[cheddatom]

xgsjx - I guess someone is using your laptops a little too vigorously.

[charic]

^ Sounds like overheating

[plumbob]

[quote name='patrickpz' timestamp='1377258270' post='2185391']
[color=#37404E]Musicians! I wanna upgrade to a better computer, my main interest is to have something to record/produce/logic etc etc. Is really Mac the best choice or is there something else that's as good and cheaper on the market? Cheers! =)[/color]
[/quote]


Aside from and before any mac/pc debate , can you please , please do some homework on what interface you are going to use , read the interfaces user forums , and troubleshooting guides , driver updates and operating system compatability , and keep all of this in regard when making a decision , and also your own ability ie . learner / experienced user .

Both mac & pc systems will work equally well if you take into account all of the above !

I am currently using Mac and Logic 9 works great no problems, although if I want to use Logic X in the future I will have to upgrade to Mountain Lion which my mac may not run.

Before Mac I had a pc system running Cubase , I had problems because of certain chipsets conflicting with my sound card , if I had done a bit of research before hand I may have saved myself some grief , once i had the relevant information and changed the conflicting part the PC system worked perfectly fine .

So as I say do your homework first , and select equipment that first works well together , and second also how quick , and consistent the equipment manufacturers are with fixes and updates so that you maximise the longevity of your system with regards to capital outlay !

[Skol303]

Mac for me. At home and at work.

Software/hardware doesn't really make much odds these days between Mac and PC. For me it's about 'user ergonomics' (oo-errg!).

I relate to PCs in the same way I do vacuum cleaners or toasters - they're machines that get the job done. Whereas I relate to Macs in the way I might do a cuddly golden retriever - they're friendly and want to help me.

But yeah. I'm strange

[goblin]

A lot of it's down to preference the way I look at it. Same argument, how boring would life be if we were all the same. We had the same haircut and all drove Ford Mondeos. No thanks! I like my Mac, had an iMac for about 2 years and I've got a MacBook Pro now with 16GB of ram. Yeah, it absolutely flies and there's nothing it can't handle yet...but on the other end of the scale, my last flat mate built a PC for video editing (as has my brother), again very high specs, and it may as well breathe fire running Windows 7 Ultimate, I really can't flaw it! He says it doesn't like Pro Tools but I reckon he's probably just not installed it right

I really don't see the point in all the arguing of "this is better than that because I said so because I've got a bigger penis than you". I use Mac because it does what I want it to do for me, and it talks without any hassle to my iPad and iPhone as well. Not every one needs that, I'd never get a job in an Apple store on the basis that if I was giving someone advice on what to buy, I'd entirely base it on what they're using it for. Is there any need to have one for surfing the internet when a cheap Windows laptop can do just the same thing?

So my advice would be to the OP, what do YOU want out of your computer and what would YOU prefer. I'd recommend Mac for ease as the OS is built around the hardware, and I've always found it works well, I've managed to make my new MBP put the handbrake on once, and that was when it was stock from Apple (the £999 13" one) and trying to import 60GB of audio into Logic, from an external HDD into 9 tracks...yeah I was asking for that really!

One thing you'll find is that a lot of Macs tend to have a longer shelf life than PCs, I bought a netbook in 2008 and it's pretty much dead now, whereas my Dad's MacBook has an SSD and 8GB in and it's as quick as my new MBP, and doesn't look dated. But on the other hand it's not always the case, because I've also got a 2003 IBM ThinkPad running XP with 2GB Ram... and it still works without any issues!

I'll add this to lighten the mood a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c

Edited August 23, 2013 by goblin

[mushers]

Interesting idea recording with linux I have a box with ububtu running on it and an old sound card might have to give that a go