To Mac or not to Mac?

[barkin]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1377289388' post='2185985']
Are you suggesting that Apple hardware is somehow a more 'known quantity' than PC hardware? [/quote]

Of course

The Apple OS knows exactly (with only a few known variations) what hardware components it'll be running on. Limited choice of supported motherboards (eg, no AMD CPUs), GPUs etc.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1377289388' post='2185985']
Even if that were true, what sort of application software has anything to do with the underlying hardware? Isn't that the job of the OS? [/quote]

It was the OS that I had in mind.

[CamdenRob]

I thought macs were only for people with tight jeans and trendy hats in Shoreditch who sit in the window of Starbucks...

Rob

[Lynottfan]

Mac for Music every time, yes they are more expensive, but worth it, I find them much nicer to use, imho.

[Platypus]

The way I view these things is:

Mac = good consumer device.
I have a recent high spec'd iMac 27 and I like this for general computer use - listen to music from iTunes or Spotify, view my photos, browse stuff and record a bit on it.

PC = business machine
Every system I work with runs on pc - none of the system makers would dream of porting their systems to Mac OS.
I guess you could say, I earn my income on a pc and spend a bit of it on Mac!

Now obviously I could, of course, use a pc to do everything I use the iMac for, though the way I do things suits me.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1377462334' post='2187880']
Of course

The Apple OS knows exactly (with only a few known variations) what hardware components it'll be running on. Limited choice of supported motherboards (eg, no AMD CPUs), GPUs etc.


It was the OS that I had in mind.
[/quote]

Ah, I see your point now, and it's fair enough, though in the PC world the BIOS and device drivers add the required level of hardware abstraction. The whole open-vs-closed debate is an interesting one and closed systems will certainly be more likely to be stable because things are a known quantity, but it will reduce flexibility and tend to force users into a specific way of working. I reckon this is why Apple polarises views so much. The users who are happy to do things 'the Apple way' find it a good experience and become converted but the users who find 'the Apple way' not to their liking end up hating it with a passion. But it's all horses for courses.

One thing that does bug me about Apple though, is the emphasis on aesthetics. Apple certainly makes some lovely products but they have a history of compromising functionality because of looks. Two examples that spring to mind (having recently read Jobs' biography) are the iMac and iPhone.

The iMac designers wanted a standard CD player 'slot' so that the CD drive could be upgraded when the forthcoming DVD burners became available. Jobs overruled this because he wanted the iMac case to be sleek and only have a single thin slot for the CD/DVD disc to be inserted (like in car audio systms) instead of what he thought was an ugly extending tray. His decision prevailed and iMacs lost a lot of ground for video editing and other applications because PCs were first with DVD burners.

Similarly, when the iPhone was about to be launched, Jobs decided at pretty much the last minute that he wanted an aluminium surround to the case so against internal protestations this is what happened. Of course, the technical effect of this was to cause operational problems with the phone transmit/receive circuitry and Apple got a a lot of bad press as a result and it cost them millions to fix the problem and swap out the faulty iPhones.

Just two examples of how Apple give aesthetics a higher priority than functionality. So if you want neat, cool looking stuff, then Apple is the way to go - but maybe wait until any new products have been field proven.

[Platypus]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1377466838' post='2187952']
The iMac designers wanted a standard CD player 'slot' so that the CD drive could be upgraded when the forthcoming DVD burners became available. Jobs overruled this because he wanted the iMac case to be sleek and only have a single thin slot for the CD/DVD disc to be inserted (like in car audio systms) instead of what he thought was an ugly extending tray. His decision prevailed and iMacs lost a lot of ground for video editing and other applications because PCs were first with DVD burners.
[/quote]
For the current iMac they dropped the drive completely, saying they couldn't accommodate one with the thin casing. Couldn't help thinking that it was more a case of Apple not wanting people installing their own music and films and trying to force them to buy via iTunes instead

[flyfisher]

I wouldn't be at all surprised. It would be entirely consistent with their philosophy of controlling every aspect of the 'user experience'.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1377259058' post='2185408']
In my opinion, as good as but cheaper? No

Same hardware specification and cheaper? Yes

A Skoda VRS has the same 2.0 Turbo engine as an Auto TT but they are twoi entirely different things.

Windows fan boys will argue the toss until they are blue screen of death in the face, but the long and short of it is, a mac has a much greater chance of not letting you down.
[/quote]

Bingo!


[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1377262343' post='2185492']
Windows as an operating system is no less stable than Mac. And when something does go wrong on Mac, you're usually buggered. It would be naive to expect a trouble-free experience on any sort of computer; it's the nature of computers.
[/quote]

In one full year of owning a MacBook Pro, I can happily report that there have been no issues whatsoever. Sometimes a programme crashes, but that's happened maybe 2 or 3 times in the entire year, and that's the height of the issues I've had. You aren't buggered any more if it goes wrong on a Mac than if it's just a regular PC.

When I asked for my first iPod, probably when I was about 12/13, my sister told me not to get one, and that they all break. My sister had a Archos MP3 player at the time, which broke and failed miserably. It wasn't much cheaper than an iPod was at the time. The iPod never broke. In fact, I sold it to my cousin a couple of years later and bought myself a new iPod. Even the battery after 4 or 5 years hadn't diminished a great deal.

There's a lot of talk about Apple products being this, that and the other. Personally, I've been using an apple product in some form since I was 12, and I have never encountered much of a problem with them.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1377268940' post='2185648']
Can I just say..... Mark King or Flea......
[/quote]

Mark King... he signed the relay bass

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1377522488' post='2188414']
In one full year of owning a MacBook Pro, I can happily report that there have been no issues whatsoever. Sometimes a programme crashes, but that's happened maybe 2 or 3 times in the entire year, and that's the height of the issues I've had.
[/quote]

I built my desktop around 17 months ago and bought my laptop around 6 months ago. I've had two small issues; one was a BSoD because of a faulty stick of memory (faulty from the factory, easily fixed, wouldn't happen in a pre-built machine) and another which was a display error from a bad driver, again easily fixed by reinstalling a small program. I don't see what the difference is, other than that I paid for both what you'd pay for a single equally spec'd Macbook. If you were to go by some of the scaremongering in here then by rights they should have both spontaneously combusted by now.

[dand666]

As someone who works in computers every day, has a degree in Comp Science my 2 cents is that the Mac is so much easier to use and generally just better.

Built on a unix based OS, its just so much better than windows. I think the only thing that has crashed on my MBP is Windows Office. And i think i've turned it off around 4-5 times in the past 18 months.

[discreet]

Ho-hum. I offer the suggestion that people are conservative and generally prefer what they are most used to.

[Mornats]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1377259058' post='2185408']
Windows fan boys will argue the toss until they are blue screen of death in the face, but the long and short of it is, a mac has a much greater chance of not letting you down.
[/quote]

Hmm, I've been running Win 7 at home and OSX at work for about the same amount of time (3.5 years) and Win 7 is the more stable of the two. The MacbookPro is terrible, great hardware but rubbish software. It crashes more times per month than the Windows machine has since I installed Win 7. Your mileage may vary of course

I used to do all my recording on the Mac using GarageBand then Apple released an update to OSX and GarageBand that rendered it unable to record via my interface. The only fix was to pay for an upgrade to Mountain Lion. Reaper on the Mac was fine, Reaper on the PC was fine so I moved everything over to the PC and haven't looked back.

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1377332495' post='2186248']
I've used Windows and Apple machines for music production for years. Imy experience. A Mac will do exactly the same as a Pc and vice versa. The Mac will do it in a fraction of the time though, as you don't need to allow for reinstalling drivers or removing and refitting and reconfiguring hardware etc... I seem to remember doing this A LOT on Windows machines.
[/quote]

My homebuilt PC has always been quicker than my MacbookPro despite both having a Core 2 Duo processor, SSD for main hard drive (Crucial M4 in both) and 8GB ram. I've never ever had to mess about with drivers on the PC ever, yet see my point above about Apple failing to get their own product to run on their own operating system.

I think all of this, without a shadow of a doubt points to a PC/Windows combination being the absolute best computer for metal. \m/

As for general music production though, and after having read all of the above comments, people have mixed experiences. Hard to recommend one over the other subjectively I think. In the end, it may be your wallet that decides.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='dand666' timestamp='1377536077' post='2188585']
As someone who works in computers every day, has a degree in Comp Science my 2 cents is that the Mac is so much easier to use and generally just better.

Built on a unix based OS, its just so much better than windows. I think the only thing that has crashed on my MBP is Windows Office. And i think i've turned it off around 4-5 times in the past 18 months.
[/quote]

Precisely!

[ironside1966]

I own both, Mac and PC and and they both get the job done.
Would I pay a premium for a Mac? maybe a small one but when you getting into the hundreds of pounds I can think of better ways of spending the extra money then on upgrading to a Mac.

[RockfordStone]

i prefer pc's over macs, ive used both and i find pc's easier.
plus i build my own so i know how to fix it if it goes wrong, its all down to personal preference i guess

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1377542165' post='2188670']
i prefer pc's over macs, ive used both and i find pc's easier.
plus i build my own so i know how to fix it if it goes wrong, its all down to personal preference i guess
[/quote]

That's quite a good point. PCs are like the Transit vans of computers. Broken? Open it up, rip out the issue, throw in a new part, start it up again.

Macs are more like F1 cars. It breaks, it goes onto life support.

[goblin]

The thing is that all technology is going to have a hiccup at some point, it's just down to how it's dealt with. I don't see PC makers giving the same customer support that Apple give. I've got the 3 year care plan on my MBP and fingers crossed I won't need it, and any issues I've had with my iPhone I've been able to book an appointment, pop into store and they just replace it.

My brother went in with his MacBook which he didn't really look after so it was shagged, and they sorted it all out for him, once home it got wet and died. New SSD later and topped up the ram, it's like a new laptop. To be honest, on the laptop front, I daren't open up a laptop and have a look inside, yet I'm perfectly happy to do so with a Mac. On the PC side of the fence though, I'd happily open up a tower, but I wouldn't go into an iMac. Tricky one really!

As far as stability is concerned though, in two years of having it, my iMac glitched a few times, but that was due to my own stupidity and something I'd done in the settings which ended up constantly parking the hard drive, which isn't cool when working with Logic. All it does is stops for a bit, then brings up the sudden motion sensor warning. So yeah, my fault that one And again with the MBP, loading 60gb of audio into several tracks simultaneously with an i5 and 4gb ram is just silly! Now it's got 16gb it's much better at it

[discreet]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1377542451' post='2188674']
Macs are more like F1 cars. It breaks, it goes onto life support.
[/quote]

Or it gets taken to a shop in the bloody west end (at great personal inconvenience) to be fixed. Bah.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377544076' post='2188707']
Or it gets taken to a shop in the bloody west end (at great personal inconvenience) to be fixed. Bah.
[/quote]

Beep... beep... beep... beep...

No, that's just the sound of the till.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1377542451' post='2188674']
That's quite a good point. PCs are like the Transit vans of computers. Broken? Open it up, rip out the issue, throw in a new part, start it up again.

Macs are more like F1 cars. It breaks, it goes onto life support.
[/quote]
this is my big issue with macs, i mean they are great if you just wanna plug in and go, but im very hands on, and i wouldn't want to have to take in a computer to be fixed.

it does all come down to personal preference, they both do the same things, just in different ways

[urb]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377263011' post='2185515']
I switched to Apple a couple of years ago and I adore it. Lady xilddx was after a new laptop and me and a friend both said Mac, she said she didn't want to spend that amount. Then another female non techy friend said she got a MacBook Air and loves it, Lady xilddx duly got a MB Air, and she adores it. She was amazed at how easy it was to use, and how pleasant.

My MacBook Pro has never let me down, and although it cost a grand over two years ago, I could probably get £500 for it right now. They hold value really well. Lovely to use too.
[/quote]

Exactly why I switched to Macs - but it was actually my misses who was using them for graphic design who switched me on to them.

Re the 'price' of things - even my PC-only techie mate who is a very knowledgeable programmer etc had to admit that Macs tend to be a better long term purchase - he's been through at least a dozen laptops in the last ten years I've been through three Macbooks, and two of those were second hand - my current 13" MBP is a little trooper and it's now 5 years old and still rocking. I installed a 500GB SSD harddrive and that speeded it up no end.

So - Macs are an investment - I think - and ARE more reliable than PCs... based on my 15+ years of experience using both PCs and Macs.

Re cost (again) a good way to buy a Mac is Apple's certified refurbished stock - I got a 27" Core i7 desktop for £1500 - added 16GB of ram (for way less than it would cost to have Apple do it for you) and I have a monster machine... loads of bargains here:

[url="http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac"]http://store.apple.c...pecialdeals/mac[/url]

All tested by Apple and come with a year's warranty plus you know they will have serviced the machine and replaced any parts that needed replacing etc - often they are ex-display models or are 6-months to a year from release and get sold on - well worth a look... well not for me as I really would like a 15" MBP but can't afford the thing right now.

All this doesn't mean I still don't shout in frustration at my Macs sometimes - but hey that's computers for you... Macs must be good as even my mum uses them and won't use PCs now - she loves her white macbook - and is trying to convince her brother to but a Mac as they are so hassle free and work beautifully straight out the box.

I saved about £500 for the equivalent machine - mine's the 2011 version - this one has the sexy new back design...

[url="http://store.apple.com/uk/product/G0MS4B/A/refurbished-imac-32ghz-quad-core-intel-core-i5"]http://store.apple.c...e-intel-core-i5[/url]

Edited August 27, 2013 by urb

[ShergoldSnickers]

My general feeling is that Macs tend to get out of the way better than Windows machines. I've been in charge of mixed networks in the past, and the Macs usually required a third of the faff time* the PCs did. Not that either needed much faff time to be honest.

*Just keeping them running properly, sorting user problems, updating, malware protection, hooking to a server/network etc.

[MiltyG565]

While we're on the topic, have any of you seen the promo page for the new Mac Pro? Provisionally, it looks like an utter beast of a machine. I might sell this MBP and get the Mac Pro when it comes out, if I can afford it. My guess is that the base model will be about £2,000, but it's really well specced, and at the moment, I'm considering getting a PC to run games on anyway. Getting the Mac Pro would mean I didn't need to, just partition the HD and run Windows for games.

[urb]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1377600826' post='2189167']
While we're on the topic, have any of you seen the promo page for the new Mac Pro? Provisionally, it looks like an utter beast of a machine. I might sell this MBP and get the Mac Pro when it comes out, if I can afford it. My guess is that the base model will be about £2,000, but it's really well specced, and at the moment, I'm considering getting a PC to run games on anyway. Getting the Mac Pro would mean I didn't need to, just partition the HD and run Windows for games.
[/quote]

Hell yes... http://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/

Like I said - it's an investment - i.e. buy this and you'll never need another computer... looks utterly sick.