Zoom MS60-B

[lefrash]

Well I've just picked up an ms-60b and after playing with it for 2 hours I can instantly see some flaws, but overall I absolutely love it!

A quick run through of my +/-'s

+ves:
sounds great! simple. Within minutes I had set up my patch how Id like it, and I'm ready to gig with it.
Feels pretty sturdy
Nice screen.
I love the fact you can swap the chain order to try out different noises.

-ves:
The 3 knobs which double up as buttons are very sensitive so I keep pressing the button when I mean to just turn the knob, resulting in it opening up different menus etc. Bit of a nuisance. Cant see me changing patches on stage (which luckily shouldnt be a problem as I plan on running just the one patch)

When holding the stomp down to activate tuner, it also activates whatever effect is in the window for that second before it mutes. Again, not a major issue for me, but if you had a high gain effect there it might be more of an issue.

[Kevin Dean]

I've been using one of these & have been very happy with it , but the other day i wiped an effect I made up by accident . I used it for getting a sound that Tony Levin has on Sledge Hammer , & I just can't seem to get the sound back as I can't remember what sequence of effects I used . I think I used a Pitch shift to get a octave effect , the Octave effect seems to have a horrible delay & the Brass ensemble. I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions of what to try if they know this track . I use a Shuker fretted 4 string & use a plectrum . thanks .

[DiMarco]

[Rich]

Picked one of these up for next to now't a while ago and haven't got round to trying it out yet. My current live FX thingy is a Line 6 Pod XT Live, which works fine for what I want but it's frankly complete overkill given that I currently use only 4 effects/settings: octave, chorus, B-15 sim (for old-skool) and SVT sim (for grittier stuff). The XT does a good job of the sims, but the chorus isn't brilliant and the octave sucks TBH. My question is, are these four things available on the MS60-B, and are they good? Is its octave setting as good as an actual OC-2, for example? It'd be great if I could whittle my board down to just the Zoom, a volume pedal and a tuner, but should I consider using a separate octave pedal too? And will I need a degree in order to figure out how the Zoom works?

[Osiris]

@Rich yes, all 4 of those are in the little Zoom. Whether they're any good or not will depend on your expectations. I actually gigged my MS60B a few times last year after my Stomp blew up and I have to say that it did a great job, I'm not a big fx user so it was just a Fender Bassman model with a dbx compressor after it, but it sounded fine and the bass sat nicely in the mix. I was using it straight into the desk as we were using in ears. Nobody else in the band made a comment either way so they didn't notice anything was different. They'd have said something if they had. 

How close the amp & cab sims are to the real thing is debatable but they each sound different enough, the B15 model sounds warmer and more mid rich than the SVT model, for example. There's several different chorus models so you ought to be able to find something you like, my favourite being an old Boss something or other. There is also an Octave effect which seems to do what you'd expect, but Octaves aren't my thing so I couldn't say how it compares to the industry standard pedals. But in my humble opinion, it's a cracking little unit. The tones maybe aren't quite as high quality as something like the Helix but that doesn't automatically mean they crap or unusable. They certainly worked for me in a live setting.  

 

[Rich]

Thanks @Osiris, that's exactly what I need to know  as you say, it's all just for a live setting where nobody will hear subtle nuance anyway..! I reckon if I make space on a board for a second pedal, then I can use the OC-2 if I need to. Or just leave the space empty. Either way, it's shaping up to be a nice little board.

[Osiris]

Honestly, it's a great little pedal. As long as you're realistic about what to expect from a pedal that costs as little as it does and is a few years old now, then I think you'll be surprised. No, it's not going to fool anyone into thinking that you're playing through an SVT fridge but it'll make your bass sound like a bass! Which is what everyone other than bass players think - bass is just bass!

The biggest limitations for me are a lack of control (most models just have 3 or 4 parameters) but it's got plenty of usable tones inside, along with a few turds just to remind you that it's a Zoom 😃

The limited interface has a 5 minute learning curve but is straightforward enough once you know what's what. 

[paul_5]

I live mine. I had one a couple of years ago and moved it on after a while and replaced it with a B1-four. The B1-Four has loads of features that I’d never use (looper, drum machine), and has a more flexible interface, but I didn’t really notice a massive difference in the sound, and it had double the footprint of the MS60b.

I run mine in an fx loop with a blend, so I can take it out of the signal path when I’m not using it, which gives me time to scroll through to the next effect.

I use it live and it does what I need it to, but for studio work I use all analogue stuff - especially octave and chorus, just because I’m fussy about those sounds.

[Al Krow]

13 hours ago, paul_5 said:

I love mine. I had one a couple of years ago and moved it on after a while and replaced it with a B1-four. The B1-Four has loads of features that I’d never use (looper, drum machine), and has a more flexible interface, but I didn’t really notice a massive difference in the sound, and it had double the footprint of the MS60b.

I run mine in an fx loop with a blend, so I can take it out of the signal path when I’m not using it, which gives me time to scroll through to the next effect.

I use it live and it does what I need it to, but for studio work I use all analogue stuff - especially octave and chorus, just because I’m fussy about those sounds.

That's very fair about the the B1-4 vs MS-60B. For me: 

Advs of B1-4

• significantly easier to use interface. The MS-60B used to do my head in before the advent of patch editing software; but the ToneLib PC editing software is free, easy to use and makes creating and editing patches a doddle on all Zoom pedals and has levelled the playing field on that score.
• live use: global EQ and volume knobs (vs in patch only on MS-60B)
• live use: ability to scroll up and down through 5 banks of 10 patches (vs 26 in one direction only, I recall, on the MS-60B)
• live use: two decent flappy paddles (vs 1 stomp switch on the MS-60B)
• live use: useful 3 light led tuner: great for dark stages / venues
• latest chip set, same as the B3N => up to 5 effects per patch (vs 4 on the MS-60B); and you can set to use a patch as a bank of 5 individual effects which is very neat
• capable headphone amp with aux in
• excellent and easy to access drum machine for home practice (IMO the looper is pretty meh)
• cheaper - which can be a bit of a surprise (see @Jakester's post below 😁 ) given how much extra it offers!

Advs of the MS-60B

• half the footprint
• greater range of effects patches
• bomb proof metal case 

I've had three MS-60Bs come and go over the years. But for me the B1-4 is without doubt the better and much more usable piece of kit, and is happily sitting at the heart of my small pedal board now.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[Jakester]

I have one and use a external midi switcher pedal to cycle the patches, which works an absolute treat. It’s meant I can downsize my pedalboard completely as I only use a few effects - occasional drive on one tune, or chorus on another etc - so it’s perfect. 

[paul_5]

Yeah, MIDI switcher is a good idea! 

I've never been overly impressed with the overdrive and fuzz sounds on the MS60-B, but then  I love my Dave Hall VT1 too much!

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, paul_5 said:

Yeah, MIDI switcher is a good idea! 

I've never been overly impressed with the overdrive and fuzz sounds on the MS60-B, but then  I love my Dave Hall VT1 too much!

Didn't realise that the MS-60B was midi enabled. Learn something new every day! 

But if you're going down the midi switcher route to deal with the scrolling limitations of the MS-60B, would it not just make more sense to get a B1-4, as you've now also lost the space advantage of the MS-60B and are starting to be well up on cost?

I guess it would be less of an issue if you're already using midi with some of your other pedals. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[Jakester]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Didn't realise that the MS-60B was midi enabled. Learn something new every day! 

But if you're going down the midi switcher route to deal with the scrolling limitations of the MS-60B, would it not just make more sense to get a B1-4, as you've now also lost the space advantage of the MS-60B and are starting to be well up on cost?

Well, I picked up the MS-60B for a steal, and even with the midi controller it’s less than the cost of a b1-4 (edit - actually,  no scratch that - thought they were more expensive than they were. Ho hum)
 

I use one of these, picked up from here second hand so cheaper:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/disaster-area-dmcmicro-midi-controller-guitar-pedals-dmcmicro?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4TC3OWS7AIVgRkGAB11DALHEAQYAyABEgJpAfD_BwE
 

So minimal increase in size really. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Jakester

[Al Krow]

43 minutes ago, Jakester said:

Well, I picked up the MS-60B for a steal, and even with the midi controller it’s less than the cost of a b1-4 (edit - actually,  no scratch that - thought they were more expensive than they were. Ho hum)

I use one of these, picked up from here second hand so cheaper:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/disaster-area-dmcmicro-midi-controller-guitar-pedals-dmcmicro?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4TC3OWS7AIVgRkGAB11DALHEAQYAyABEgJpAfD_BwE

So minimal increase in size really. 

Yeah that's a neat midi unit. Agreed vgc used is the way to go if you can. Are you using your DMC midi for other pedals also?

As you spotted, the new price comparison is quite revealing though: 

B1-4 = £59 plus p&p 

MS-60B + DMC midi = £200 

And the B1-4 still does a lot more than the MS-60B & midi combo.

Right, I'll shut up now! 

[Jakester]

Hmm, I didn't pay anywhere near that for the setup, but I hope my wife doesn't see your post! 

I suppose that perfectly encapsulates being a musician...

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, Jakester said:

Hmm, I didn't pay anywhere near that for the setup, but I hope my wife doesn't see your post! 

I suppose that perfectly encapsulates being a musician...

Is she on BC? If so, I could delete my post for a small fee...😂

[Rich]

Having spent part of the day scratching my head while RTFMing and attempting to set up some patches, I think I'm definitely going to experiment with building this tiny board around the Zoomy gizmo. Yes I know the MS60 has a tuner on board, but I adore my old Korg DT-7 and trust it implicitly.
I've yet to do an A/B comparison of the MS60's octave effect against the Boss OC-2, this will dictate whether or not the Boss goes on the board. 

[pete.young]

I am not a huge fan of the MS-60B's Octave effect, I had much better results with the Pitch Shift effect. I don't think either of them is as good as my OC-3, but thats just a personal opinion.

[stewblack]

On 30/09/2020 at 23:38, Al Krow said:

On 30/09/2020 at 23:34, paul_5 said:

 

Didn't realise that the MS-60B was midi enabled.

What now? I wasn't told about this.. How? 

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, stewblack said:

What now? I wasn't told about this.. How? 

Me and you both eh - lol!

I don't think it's full midi but you can use some midi controllers to scroll up and down patches via the usb connector, which is better than one direction scrolling through 26 patches using the single stomp.

[stewblack]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Me and you both eh - lol!

I don't think it's full midi but you can use some midi controllers to scroll up and down patches via the usb connector, which is better than one direction scrolling through 26 patches using the single stomp.

presumably some sort of USB to midi interface? TBH I use mine more as standalone pedals but it's interesting nonetheless. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

presumably some sort of USB to midi interface? TBH I use mine more as standalone pedals but it's interesting nonetheless. 

Here you go:

 

[andruca]

A personal experience warning about the B1 Four/X Four (from someone who also knows the MS-60B/B3 inside out) .

I've had an MS-60B since 2015 and it's served me extremely well. Not into a lot of effects, but more of a base tone kinda' guy (fat crunchy SansAmp + compression). I own a real SansAmp (an RBI) which has been my main recording tool since 2004, but it has rarely left my studio since I've got the MS-60B. I usually carry the pedal as my "tone in a box" and use whatever amp, even one of my own.

Now, 6 months ago I got a B1X Four. Not that I needed it, but just wanted to have the Darkglass emulations (set on and happy with my SansAmp tone, can't really justify buying a B7K) and also something more state of the art with an expression pedal (after selling a Zoom 708II I had for a long time), even tho' I rarely use that. First thing I did when I got it was try to replicate the patches in my MS-60B (basically one crunchy and one -sorta'- clean patch for each bass I use). Right away I became aware of 2 serious issues with the Four: 1) it's damm BOXY and 2) it's noisy. Spent months trying to make it sound remotely as good as my MS-60B. No luck, to a point where it's even useless for it to have 5 slots instead of 4 if I need to add ZNR and additional EQ to tame a horrible 180hz peak (BOXY zone) and add both lowend and highs in every patch (only to get sorta' close, not quite there at all). Also the ParaEQ model changed, for very worse, now it's only one band, while it was 2 band in the MS-60B/B3. Side by side the Four sounds several levels of DEAD, doesn't carry the punch, the balls nor the liveliness. Also the params for the same effect (say SansAmp emulation) don't work the same on both units. Doesn't Zoom use a previous version of an emulation as reference or starting point to develop the next generation? Dont they plug in a bass and test the same emulation in the old model vs. the new one? The differences I'm talking about are TOO NOTORIOUS to obviate.

I don't know what it is (only remarkable electronic difference is input impedance is 1Mohm on the B3/MS-60B vs. 470Kohm on the Fours, could that justify higher noise?). Still, it's not the first time I experience this kind of mishap with Zoom (which I adore and have got MANY great devices from), I got rid of a B2.1u 10 years ago because it didn't sound as good as the 708II I previously had. But it was not like this, this is different, it's like the Four's response is narrowed, BOXY, that's definitely the exact word, very annoyingly so.

Sold the B1X Four and got a B3 which sounds exactly as great as my MS-60B and altho' having one less effect slot (still enough for me) it's also a GREAT audio interface and has a DI and even has a CTL in for an expression pedal I found around. Also dealt with faking a sorta' Darkglass, blending in some CMOS distortion/OD in for that middy crunch (there's several models available, the Squeak -RAT- works decently, also do the DS-1 and ODB-3). I've recorded several stuff with this B3 (both from the DI and using it as an interface) and as of today I don't feel like using the SansAmp RBI for recording anymore, I way prefer the recorded tone coming out of the B3 TBH.

Haven't tried a B3n but I'm kinda' guessing it has the same problem (I know, not instantly obvious until you A/B one with a B3). Guess I'll have to wait for a future generation to do any upgrades, the Fours don't cut it for me.

Edited October 6, 2020 by andruca

[Al Krow]

Seems to me you either had a defective unit or you've got other issues in your signal chain e.g. a non isolated PSU.

Quite a few of us have or have had both a B1-4 and an MS-60B and I'm not aware of any one else complaining about noise on either pedal.

[Osiris]

15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Seems to me you either had a defective unit or you've got other issues in your signal chain e.g. a non isolated PSU.

Quite a few of us have or have had both a B1-4 and an MS-60B and I'm not aware of any one else complaining about noise on either pedal.

Didn't you and someone else (@ped perhaps?) mention an issue with digital noise on the B1-4 a while ago?