Beginner Player - Please Help

[Kevstein]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone could help me. I am trying to get better on bass but wanted to know of any tutorials, techniques or methods that can help me.

I am getting faster and faster at playing and can play more difficult songs now than when i started but my problem is using only my index and ring finger on my left hand which limits me a lot. I cant get any sort of independance between my pinky and ring finger. If i use the pinky my ring finger just sits next to it and moves around with it. Which means i can only use one or the other and its always my stronger ring finger that is used.

All I do is look at tabs and learn songs. Ive recently got my bro and mate to teach me scales and have been trying to jam more which is helping. What else should i learn to be known as a good bass player? Im told practicing tabs over and over is a poor thing to do as it makes you a jukebox, not a bass player.

Basically how to improve your playing or knowledge from beginner to Victor Wooten status lol.

Any help or advice is much appreciated.

Kev.

[Mornats]

Hi Kev, welcome to Basschat! You've come to the right place

I was in a very similar position to yourself, I didn't know any theory and my technique consisted of using just two fingers on my left hand. I found a very good bass tutor who sorted out my technique and is teaching me theory by the bucketload. It's making a massive difference in how I play. Where are you based? I'm sure we can recommend a good tutor for you in your local area.

[steve-bbb]

hi kevstein check out some of the tutorial channels on youtube

scott devine is the first one that springs to mind and marlowe dk is very good too

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKAHDALZKhg&"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKAHDALZKhg&[/url]

[Coilte]

Hi Kevstein,

For the fingering problem, try placing each finger on a fret. Then slowly lift them off one at a time. This clip shows how. Spend about fifteen minutes a day doing this and in time your fingers will do what you want them to.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w[/url]


Dont worry too much about speed for now. This will come of itself with time and practice. Instead concentrate on getting a good clean sound. Tabs are OK up to a point but dont become too dependant on them. Train your ear instead, by listening to songs, working out the bass lines yourself and then trying to play along.

Learn the major, minor and pentatonic scales to start. Learn about chord tones and how they are derived from scales.

"Studybass" is a great all round site. Start at the beginning of the lessons and work your way through.

[url="http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/"]http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/[/url]

Finally, be patient with yourself. Take the learning process in small steps.. It took Victor Wooton and others like him, many years of constant focused practice to get to where they are now.

Best of luck with it.

[seashell]

Welcome to the wonderful world of bass playing
I'm an inexperienced player myself (just over 2 years), so cannot add more to the good advice you've received above.

But just to encourage you...if you follow the on line advice above (or better still find a good tutor), I promise you'll improve really quickly. I was hopeless when I started, but was using all four fingers within a couple of weeks. I did go to a good tutor and practice every day though! But you'd be surprised how quickly you can improve.

I'm still not perfect (is anyone?) and my fingers do tend to flap about a bit more than is recommended for speed and accuracy!
But I couldn't imagine only playing with 2 fingers now. Once you get the hang of it, playing with four fingers does make it a lot easier.

[Lozz196]

As Coilte says, get used to using each finger as per the clip, and don`t worry about the speed, that will come, the important thing is to get them all working.

From there, it may seem slow, but every day you play you will be getting more familiar with the instrument. I developed a few warm-up exercises which suit me. Others may think they are a bit daft, but they get my hands/fingers nicely ready, and I do these every day. So develop your own routines that you`ll go through, and keep at them. This will develop your speed as well.

[Mornats]

The best bit of advice my tutor gives me is to always practice slowly. This allows for the build up of muscle memory, makes sure you're focusing on every aspect of fretting, positioning, plucking, etc. and gets you thinking about timing. (It's hard to play well to 60 beats per minute.)

It took me a few days over a Christmas period to practice my fretting technique and I had people point out to me later that they could see and hear the difference when I played. Practice every day and it gets better and better. A good book to get is Bass Fitness ([url="http://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/09/details.html"]http://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/09/details.html[/url] - sorry, I won't link to Amazon!) and pick an exercise or two per day to practice. Start slowly and only increase tempo by around 3-5 BPM at a time. The value of having a tutor watch you do it and point out where you're going wrong and how to fix it is invaluable though.

[cytania]

Before you hit the tabs listen to the song and try coming up with your own bassline. Helps if it's a simple song. Just run your hands along the strings until you find the main note, it's usually the 'root' or 'key' note. Alot of songs are based on the 12 bar blues format, even when they are really un-bluesy. Find key and the look for the 12bar chord progression. It may not be there but it's a good start.

When you learn a song under your own steam you won't forget it. Your brain makes a mental shorthand, [i]it's a 12 bar but on the turnaround the bass holds off and the guitar break is just playing the root.[/i]This is much better than becoming a jukebox.

The sense of achievement when you crack a song is tremendous. Particularly when you do look at the Tab and think [i]oh he's made that hard for himself, why play it that way?[/i]

Of course it could be the Tab fan has really studied the original and yes the original player plays in a weird gimpy way that makes hard work of everything. That could be part of the band's sound or it could be something you decide to do your way[i].[/i] Key thing is thinking about your choices, that's the start of learning.

[uncle psychosis]

First things first: bass is quite a physical instrument, and it takes time to train your body, so don't beat yourself up too much. Also don't worry too much about speed---speed is the result of good technique and lots of practice.

Left hand technique is really important and I personally found that one or two lessons with a good teacher to correct what I was doing with my left hand made a world of difference. The positioning of your hand and wrist are just as important as what fingers you use.

Good exercise for the problem you describe:

G -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8- 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
D -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - -
E 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5

Play this with one finger per fret, and do it slowly, you're aiming to sound each note cleanly and clearly, not to race through the notes. To make it harder you can move down the fretboard (1 -2 -3 -4) is a nice stretch or moving it higher up the fretboard makes it easier. For a bit of variety you can vary the pattern eg (5 - 7 - 6 - 8) on each string, just keep doing it one finger per fret. Do this for five minutes every day for a few weeks and you'll definitely notice a difference. If you are still finding it hard at that point its likely that your left hand/wrist position isn't quite right---which I'd recommend seeing a teacher for, but there's lots of stuff online for this too.

Edited August 29, 2013 by uncle psychosis

[dincz]

I'm not qualified to comment here but I think it's essential to train your ears to recognise the more common intervals and to train your fingers to automatically find them on the fingerboard. A good starting point is the 4th e.g. from any fret on the E string to the same fret on the A string. From there the 5th e.g. any fret on the E to 2 frets higher on the A. Get those ingrained and you're off to a good start.

As others have suggested, practise one finger per fret but don't treat it as an absolute rule - break it when necessary to make fingering easier or to prepare for a chord change.

Edited August 29, 2013 by dincz

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1377711417' post='2190737']
It took me a few days over a Christmas period to practice my fretting technique and I had people point out to me later that they could see and hear the difference when I played. Practice every day and it gets better and better. A good book to get is Bass Fitness ([url="http://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/09/details.html"]http://www.musicroom...09/details.html[/url] - sorry, I won't link to Amazon!) and pick an exercise or two per day to practice. Start slowly and only increase tempo by around 3-5 BPM at a time. The value of having a tutor watch you do it and point out where you're going wrong and how to fix it is invaluable though.
[/quote]

That book looks quite interesting, but I play a five string. Would the exercises still be useful?

[Coilte]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1377762987' post='2191365']


G -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8- 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
D -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - -
E 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5

Play this with one finger per fret, and do it slowly, you're aiming to sound each note cleanly and clearly, not to race through the notes. To make it harder you can move down the fretboard (1 -2 -3 -4) is a nice stretch or moving it higher up the fretboard makes it easier. For a bit of variety you can vary the pattern eg (5 - 7 - 6 - 8) on each string, just keep doing it one finger per fret. Do this for five minutes every day for a few weeks and you'll definitely notice a difference. If you are still finding it hard at that point its likely that your left hand/wrist position isn't quite right---which I'd recommend seeing a teacher for, but there's lots of stuff online for this too.
[/quote]


This is a great exercise. I do something similar as a warm up myself. However, I'd like to make a quick comment on the "one finger per fret" technique.

OP, this is a great technique, but you need to be very careful when playing on the lower frets (1-5). Here, the stretch can be too severe for some people. In this case use the pinkie in congunction with the third finger. Here is a link on the subject from "Talk Bass"

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f22/3-finger-method-one-finger-per-fret-friedland-book-596287/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f22/3-finger-method-one-finger-per-fret-friedland-book-596287/[/url]

Never play through any pain in the hope it will eventually go away. If you do experience pain, STOP the action immediatly. Find out why you are having it, and correct.


Sorry !! I did not mean to lecture. It is just that I have come across on forums like this, many people who have almost crippled themselves struggling with the OFPF on the lower frets.

[Kevstein]

I read through all the replies. A lot of great advice it seems. I will keep my normal practice routine and learn some simple songs that go through the notes more to get used to moving around the fret board but i will also do that exercise above and see how i get on.

The stretch shouldnt be a problem. I have absolutely massive hands and can stretch playing 1 to 4 with my index / ring finger. But if i play 1-2-3-4 on the E I would normally play the first with my index finger, second fret with my ring finger and then just slide up 3 and 4. Its a really bad habit that has been imbedded in my playing technique and its hard to break/ . Once i am able to do this i should be able to progress quickly hopefully.

Thanks for the comments/advice. Really helpful.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kevstein

[barkin]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1377692432' post='2190407']
Tabs are OK up to a point but dont become too dependant on them. Train your ear instead, by listening to songs, working out the bass lines yourself and then trying to play along.
[/quote]

A big +1 for this. Whenever I've looked at tabs it's quickly apparent that most of 'em are just plain wrong

[Mornats]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1377762987' post='2191365']
First things first: bass is quite a physical instrument, and it takes time to train your body, so don't beat yourself up too much. Also don't worry too much about speed---speed is the result of good technique and lots of practice.

Left hand technique is really important and I personally found that one or two lessons with a good teacher to correct what I was doing with my left hand made a world of difference. The positioning of your hand and wrist are just as important as what fingers you use.

Good exercise for the problem you describe:

G -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8- 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
D -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A - - - - - - - - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - - - - - - - -
E 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5

Play this with one finger per fret, and do it slowly, you're aiming to sound each note cleanly and clearly, not to race through the notes. To make it harder you can move down the fretboard (1 -2 -3 -4) is a nice stretch or moving it higher up the fretboard makes it easier. For a bit of variety you can vary the pattern eg (5 - 7 - 6 - 8) on each string, just keep doing it one finger per fret. Do this for five minutes every day for a few weeks and you'll definitely notice a difference. If you are still finding it hard at that point its likely that your left hand/wrist position isn't quite right---which I'd recommend seeing a teacher for, but there's lots of stuff online for this too.
[/quote]

The exercises in the Bass Fitness book I mentioned are very much like this but with more variants to tackle, for example, stretching from the E to the G string.

Also, my tutor advises people to start on fret 10 or so as they're closer together and is a gentler initial stretch. You can then move down the fretboard to fret 5, then to fret 1 eventually.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1377764047' post='2191388']
That book looks quite interesting, but I play a five string. Would the exercises still be useful?
[/quote]

Yep, you can just add in the extra string yourself. It's not about the notes you're hitting but the order of the fretting and on which string you're fretting it. An example of a later exercise that's designed to help skipping strings would be:

G -- - - - - -1 - - 3 -
D -- -2 - 4 - -- - - - -
A - - - - - - - 2 - - 4
E 1 - - 3 - - - - - - - -

On a 5 string you could swap the E string for your B or just do the exercise twice, once starting on the B string and the second time starting on the E string.

[Mornats]

Also, another good piece of advice is to learn where the notes on the fretboard are. Then, even if you're learning from tab* (but much easier if you're learning from notation) you can play the notes in any location you like. It'll be much easier to step between notes if you have more options open.

As an example, I play a song that goes from E minor to C. In tab (best used to illustrate the fingering) I would have played the progression from the E minor to the C like this:

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]G ---------------- [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]D ----------------[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]A 7--10-3-------- [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]E ----------------[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]That's a bit of a stretch and leaves a little audible gap in between the G (the minor 3rd of the E chord - fret 10) and the C. However, if you know that you want to play the C, instead of knowing that you want to play fret 3 on the A string then you'll know that there's an easier C - fret 9 of the E string - all playable without moving your hand at all if you're fretting with one finger per string. Once you start developing walking basslines this knowledge becomes invaluable! [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]* But only if you learn that when the tab says fret 5 on the A string it means play a D. This is why tab doesn't help in the long term, it shows you how to play a song but teaches you nothing. You'll end up like one of those little music boxes that goes round playing just the one song and not a player and composer of music. [/font][/color]

Edited August 29, 2013 by Mornats

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1377798354' post='2192064']
Yep, you can just add in the extra string yourself. It's not about the notes you're hitting but the order of the fretting and on which string you're fretting it. An example of a later exercise that's designed to help skipping strings would be:

G -- - - - - -1 - - 3 -
D -- -2 - 4 - -- - - - -
A - - - - - - - 2 - - 4
E 1 - - 3 - - - - - - - -

On a 5 string you could swap the E string for your B or just do the exercise twice, once starting on the B string and the second time starting on the E string.
[/quote]

Thanks. Does it give you suggested fingerings?

[Mornats]

Yep, well the whole point is one finger per fret so the number refers to both the frets and which fingers you should be using to fret them. However even though it says finger 1, fret 1 in the chart above, you can start the fretting on any fret. It's the fingers in order bit that's important. Does that make sense?

So in my chart you quoted that would be quite a stretch on a 5 string but that's the point The idea is to keep your fingers positioned above the fret (and hte string) they're meant to be playing, or have just played so you shouldn't be moving your hand forwards and back. It's about finger movement, stretching your muscles a little and getting used to being in those positions. It's all muscle memory exercise.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1377816284' post='2192443']
Yep, well the whole point is one finger per fret so the number refers to both the frets and which fingers you should be using to fret them. However even though it says finger 1, fret 1 in the chart above, you can start the fretting on any fret. It's the fingers in order bit that's important. Does that make sense?

So in my chart you quoted that would be quite a stretch on a 5 string but that's the point The idea is to keep your fingers positioned above the fret (and hte string) they're meant to be playing, or have just played so you shouldn't be moving your hand forwards and back. It's about finger movement, stretching your muscles a little and getting used to being in those positions. It's all muscle memory exercise.
[/quote]

Yep, makes sense. Think its the kind of thing I might benefit from. Cheers