have we reached the pinacle??? of bass playing

[4 candles]

Howdy, firstly my space bar appears not to be working, so very sorry! anyway, I just stumbled upon a you tube vid of a very talented, tanned, handsome gentleman with a very cool name also, who just happens to play the bass very well, not just flash but solid but with technique and timing to die for. (and a good drummer to boot) [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GQikNXTWS4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GQikNXTWS4[/url] my question........ have we reached the pinnacle of instrumental/solo/technique bass playing????? Mr Madrid has encapsulated the best of the victor/Marcus/jaco vibe down to an absolute tee and incorporated them in his own. I appreciate these techniques have been copied from 3 players who brought something new and ground breaking to the forefront of bass playing respective of their time. This guy has pure talent and is amazing in my eyes and I see a combination of arguably 3 of the most technically gifted and original players in modern history within his style of playing, but nothing more........my question. Is it possible to push the boundaries further bass playing wise or is this as good as it can get??? regards Mark

[visog]

God no. No disrespect to the guy (who's more than competent) but this is 5th generation regurgitated Jaco harmonics and Louis Johnson funk best heard 25 years ago. Hadrien Feraud and Thundercat point to the future for me (even though there's a fair bit of Jaco in both of them).

Drummer is really good.

Edited August 29, 2013 by visog

[Dad3353]

[quote name='4 candles' timestamp='1377805655' post='2192219']...Is it possible to push the boundaries further bass playing wise or is this as good as it can get?...[/quote]

Excellent..! Many thanks for posting. I'm far from specialist in the esoteric world of top-end bass virtuosi, but found this to be about as intelligent as it gets. Not so much for the individual technicality as for the obvious enjoyment between the two, and the musical interplay going on. Necessarily written, rather than improvised, and executed with marvellous precision (..?), not stilted for all that, and well 'locked in'.
Does it get any better than that..? No, at least not until the next opus, either from the same stable or from yet another hitherto unknown rising star. I certainly hope so, anyway.
I'm not one to denigrate on the basis on 'having heard it before', or accuse of 'chops recycling'. Not much of anyone is truly original, anyway, and it's not always the first with a new touch that use it the best. It's the overall result which counts more, to me, than much else.
Kudos equally for the drummer here, without whom the solo wouldn't work at all. Fine work by both parties, and a general round of applause. A good one.

[deanovw]

Pinnacle? No.

He is good, but not that good. imho.

Really like what the drummer did.

[AndyTravis]

I didn't think he was anything to particularly behold, he's obviously a really good technical bass player, but that level is something you'd see quite regularly in music shops...I say regularly I mean, once a month versus the 500 times a month you'll hear the shed falling down stairs routine.

I like the mix of styles though, he's a bit of a jack of all trades.

If I think though, the 'masters' of bass In the technical sense, the people who push the envelope (I cringed when I typed that) always leave a lasting impression or leave your jaw gaping at first sight.

That's the pinnacle, I suppose.

This video, while accomplished, isn't that kind of experience for me.

But he's good, don't get me wrong.

[bubinga5]

for a start i love that guys playingm and thankd for posting dude. but there is no pinnacle imo. in music/ bass playing. music is too invinite a subject. its a bit like saying, is that girl/man the most beautiful person ever.. ? there are bassists/musicians you might favour, but the pinnacle of bass playing. impossible.

not always of course, but i sometimes find the truely original bassists dont have amazing techiniques. they just use notes very cleverly and are hugely musical. Sharay Reed is one of them imo.

Edited August 29, 2013 by bubinga5

[Ghosts Over Japan]

You guys should check out the Juanito Makandes (Drummer) other stuff on youtube, plays guitar and sings like a BOSS. fantastic musician.
Cai

[chris_b]

Can't be the pinnacle....he’s only got 4 strings!

[flyfisher]

I always find these sorts of things very interesting to watch but I don't think I'd ever choose to just listen to the audio.

[Lowender]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1377808045' post='2192281']
Excellent..! Many thanks for posting. I'm far from specialist in the esoteric world of top-end bass virtuosi, but found this to be about as intelligent as it gets. Not so much for the individual technicality as for the obvious enjoyment between the two, and the musical interplay going on. Necessarily written, rather than improvised, and executed with marvellous precision (..?), not stilted for all that, and well 'locked in'.
Does it get any better than that..? No, at least not until the next opus, either from the same stable or from yet another hitherto unknown rising star. I certainly hope so, anyway.
I'm not one to denigrate on the basis on 'having heard it before', or accuse of 'chops recycling'. Not much of anyone is truly original, anyway, and it's not always the first with a new touch that use it the best. It's the overall result which counts more, to me, than much else.
Kudos equally for the drummer here, without whom the solo wouldn't work at all. Fine work by both parties, and a general round of applause. A good one.
[/quote]

I agree. Good player but certainly nothing extraordinary. And the song is lame.

[Fat Rich]

I checked out a few of this guy's videos a few years ago and nicked some of his lines Really like his playing, not sure why exactly as there are plenty of other players who can do this stuff.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zqV2ymf4-k"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zqV2ymf4-k[/url]

Edited August 30, 2013 by Fat Rich

[BigRedX]

Is that an HH amp in shot behind the drummer?

[xilddx]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1377851388' post='2192639']
Is that an HH amp in shot behind the drummer?
[/quote]Sure looks like it, I noticed that before anything else

The guy is very good, so is the drummer, but I'm amazed that anyone would think this is the pinnacle of bass playing, amazed. There's nothing new here, in fact I've heard it all before and I only hear this stuff on Basschat.

I think there's a fundamental problem in some people's perception of what makes an innovative bassist. Trouble is, people often don't hear subtlety, they don't hear the music, they forget that innovation is not just technique, it's also sound, space, harmony, texture, movement - COMPOSITION.

If this geezer had never made this video, and you could only hear him on band recordings, odds on only a few people would have ever mentioned his name. Sadly, to get 'noticed' (if that's even important) you have to make videos like this, and it's not unusual playing and certainly not innovative. It's just a very good bassist and drummer.

[PauBass]

....[size=4]Here we go again.[/size]

He might not be the pinacle of bass playing but Fernando is not one of those Youtube bassplayers we often see.
He's a musician, he's understanding of music, harmony, theory....is incredible, he's not just a bass player, he's a musician!
You can tell he has many influences but he also has his own personality/style and that shows on his compositions.
He's played bass for big names in Spain, something you don't get to do unless you are a bit good?..He's been around for a long time, and he has made his name by playing with bands/session work, not by doing Youtube videos.

You like what he does or not but that's a different story in my eyes. Edited August 30, 2013 by PauBass

[Skol303]

Interesting question!

Coming at this from a bit of a tangent... I don't think the word 'pinnacle' ever really applies to the arts - be it music, painting, literature, poetry, whatever. It's such a subjective field that one person's 'pinnacle' may just as easily be another's 'mediocrity' or worse, as evidenced by this thread.

Sure, there are only so many notes to be played on a bass, and only so many ways of playing them. And of course there are many different degrees of skill, with perhaps very little separating the raw ability of top players other than their own distinctive styles.

But the term 'pinnacle' implies that we've reached some kind of maximum in terms of musicianship - as though everything has been done that can be done, in the best ways possible - and of course, again, it's impossible to get consensus on this because any art, by definition, is massively subjective.

So yeah. I think it's possible to reach the pinnacle of one's [i]own[/i] ability; but I don't think it's possible to ever reach the pinnacle of bass playing or any other art as a whole - there are just too many variables involved for us to agree on what the 'pinnacle' actually is.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Skol303

[paul_5]

Nice to see a cowbell that doesn't get used too; obviously a drummer with taste...

[Bilbo]

Speaking as someone who is close to that pinnacle myself....

Seriously, the concept of there being a line of improved development from Monk Montgomery through Jaco to these gunslingers is anathema to the concept of Music as Art. Atheletes get faster, higher, further etc, not artists. Having looked for great players all my life, I have learned that there is always some other cat just around the corner. Great bassists canplay crap music, crap musicians can play great music. Technique is not just about faster but also about expression. It is all very complicated. Interestingly, guitarists seem to have stopped trying to speed up as the shredding has proven to be a dead end. Same with horns really. Its about the ideas now, not the process.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1377876625' post='2193162']
Speaking as someone who is close to that pinnacle myself....

Seriously, the concept of there being a line of improved development from Monk Montgomery through Jaco to these gunslingers is anathema to the concept of Music as Art. Atheletes get faster, higher, further etc, not artists. Having looked for great players all my life, I have learned that there is always some other cat just around the corner. Great bassists canplay crap music, crap musicians can play great music. Technique is not just about faster but also about expression. It is all very complicated. Interestingly, guitarists seem to have stopped trying to speed up as the shredding has proven to be a dead end. Same with horns really. Its about the ideas now, not the process.
[/quote]

Bang on, Rob.

[witterth]

I rather like that one too

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377852498' post='2192659']
Sure looks like it, I noticed that before anything else

The guy is very good, so is the drummer, but I'm amazed that anyone would think this is the pinnacle of bass playing, amazed. There's nothing new here, in fact I've heard it all before and I only hear this stuff on Basschat.

I think there's a fundamental problem in some people's perception of what makes an innovative bassist. Trouble is, people often don't hear subtlety, they don't hear the music, they forget that innovation is not just technique, it's also sound, space, harmony, texture, movement - COMPOSITION.

If this geezer had never made this video, and you could only hear him on band recordings, odds on only a few people would have ever mentioned his name. Sadly, to get 'noticed' (if that's even important) you have to make videos like this, and it's not unusual playing and certainly not innovative. It's just a very good bassist and drummer.
[/quote]

echo.

[stu_g]

more cowbell![url="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/80a71ef8cb/more-cowbell"]http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/80a71ef8cb/more-cowbell[/url]

[visog]

I've said it before in other posts, and it pains me that he's french, but this guy just kills it...

His facility is amazing...

http://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/premiumvideos/hadrien-feraud-bass-lesson/

[JTUK]

wwwwwwhhhhhooooooaaaaa!!!!!! :lol:

[LayDownThaFunk]

But it's so boring!

What is this obsession with the honky bridge sound? Give me a bass player who looks cool, has an aggressive sound and isn't obsessed with doing a thousand licks per song. JJ Burnell and Duff McKagan spring to mind...

[ambient]

After spending the last 3 years studying music. Having to learn ridiculously hard stuff where the whole thing is just the technique, and having lessons every week off people who's whole thing is technique, but have no idea about being creative. I'd rather hear a bassist playing music, and being creative, the whole playing fast, or slap or groove thing just bores me so much.