Valuing a Rickenbacker

[paulconnolly]

I appreciate the situation re: advertising Rics for sale but this is a bit different so I hope it's allowed (if not the apologies in advance and the mods'll deal with as appropriate).

I've had the long term loan of a 1980 4001 in Jetglo (had it for about 3 years now) and I really enjoy playing it. The owner has asked for it back and for the avoidance of doubt I've no problem with that and am grateful for him letting me have it for so long. It was always only intended as a long term loan and he had said that it wasn't for sale he just wanted someone to play it. Anyway he has said he is open to offers but my problem is how to value it?

When I asked him what figure he had in mind he thought typical e-bay rates minus a bit for mates rates. I've looked on flea bay and gumtree etc.. and most seem to be up for around £1200 and heading north of this. These basses are all in mint condition looking at the photos. One example on e-bay is £1600 and in similar condition to the one I have but it's advertised as being owned by Puddle Of Mud so I'd say there's a premium for that depending on provenance of course. The bass I have is a bit "road worn" with a few minor dings and scratches, which is to be expected after 30+ years plus there's a quite extensive area on the back where the paint has worn away to the bare wood (it was like that when I picked it up). So what to do? I don't want to pay over the odds and I don't want to haggle with a mate. At the same time I don't want to insult him with a derisory offer.

Thoughts peeps?

PS no photos but if this is allowed to stay I'll post some.

[simon1964]

I think the one you've seen at £1600 is pretty optimistically priced by the seller. £1200 to £1300 is probably a decent price in the current market.

[4000]

I had an '80 Jetglo stolen in '86. What's the s/n?

[paulconnolly]

Thanks [b]simon1964[/b].

[b]4000[/b] thanks for your contribution. You first

[karlfer]

FEEBay is quiet a dangerous place to take value guesstimates. Obviously price is inflated as people take into account what fees they are going to get charged between FEEBay and PAINPal. On £1200 current charges are about £116.
The main thing is though, many of them are out at these prices, for months on end, without selling.
That to me suggests people are asking too much for them in the current marketplace. Then of course you get the further complication of 4001 being slightly more desirable because they are all vintage now.
Personally, if it was a bass I really wanted, I would go through my reasoning with him and offer him £1000.
But that is just my opinion.
Good luck,
Karl.

Edited September 1, 2013 by karlfer

[4000]

[quote name='paulconnolly' timestamp='1378021369' post='2194661']
Thanks [b]simon1964[/b].

[b]4000[/b] thanks for your contribution. You first
[/quote]

TC915. Sorry for my 'contribution' , but it was my first bass and therefore had rather a lot of emotional attachment.

[paulconnolly]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1378031436' post='2194809']
TC915. Sorry for my 'contribution' , but it was my first bass and therefore had rather a lot of emotional attachment.
[/quote] Fair do's. This has a different number and I won't quote it because a) the bass ain't mine and some other wag will pipe up tat it's the one he/she had nicked etc... . I can understand the emotional attachment and you never know, one day

[paulconnolly]

Thanks for the thoughts peeps.

[Billy Apple]

Hiram, where can you get a new one for less than £1200?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1378037926' post='2194929']
Hiram, where can you get a new one for less than £1200?
[/quote]
Yes, i'd like to know the answer to that too.

[4000]

[quote name='paulconnolly' timestamp='1378037212' post='2194916']
Fair do's. This has a different number and I won't quote it because a) the bass ain't mine and some other wag will pipe up tat it's the one he/she had nicked etc... . I can understand the emotional attachment and you never know, one day
[/quote]

Well I've quoted it on various sites over the years and no one has come forward (not that I'd really expect them to) and it's never turned up for sale to my knowledge, so let's say I'm not optimistic.

[GregBass]

I have a 79 4001, and I would think 1200 is about the rate. And just to be clear, Mine is not for sale

[paulconnolly]

[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1378057296' post='2195272']
I have a 79 4001, and I would think 1200 is about the rate. And just to be clear, Mine is not for sale
[/quote] Pristine? Unmarked? Or "road worn"?

Trying to post a picture of the worn paintwork Hope it works :-)

[attachment=142869:IMG_0696.JPG]

You can also see the worn paintwork near the top rear if you look hard enough.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1378057296' post='2195272']
I have a 79 4001, and I would think 1200 is about the rate. And just to be clear, Mine is not for sale
[/quote]
I've found over the years that most of the basses at bargain prices aren't for sale.

[Billy Apple]

I wouldn't worry about the paint work, what would you expect from an '80 bass that's been played?

I'd be looking at things like the neck and any cracks forming or getting bigger at joins. Plus how is the bridge, is it lifting at the back from the body? And anyway, you are in the best position to know all this.

Bass Gear in Twyford have a 4001 up for £1500 (and £1600 on eBay). It's boring old Maple glow, but the neck is superb and it sounds and plays lovely. You would get a warranty and the back up from a respected dealer, plus if you walked in with the readies you might get it for a bit less. But, you pays your extra for the after sales piece of mind.

There are 4003's at the £1500 to £2000 mark on eBay that have been sitting for months. Anyone who buys off these shysters deserves to be fleeced. Plus no warranty or back up.

Last month I was offered a brand spanker 4003 from Wunjo for £1500, and who knows, I could've haggled.

I think a S/H 4003 Fire glow has just gone for £975, but buyer beware and all that.

So here you are with a vintage Ric that you are more than familiar with, that you have had rent free for 3 years. This is what I reckon..

I think £1200 is a very good price. Good for you and good for him. If you were being exceptionally kind you may offer £1300 to include the rent.

Any less than this and you will maybe feel you've put one over on your mate. I mean, I might offer him £1100, but I don't know the guy and it doesn't matter if I fall out with him.

If your mate thinks £1200 is too low tell him to bear in mind that if it snaps in half the day after you've bought it, then he has the money and you have the firewood.

But buy the Ric.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Billy Apple

[paulconnolly]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1378062900' post='2195407']
I wouldn't worry about the paint work, what would you expect from an '80 bass that's been played?

I'd be looking at things like the neck and any cracks forming or getting bigger at joins. Plus how is the bridge, is it lifting at the back from the body? And anyway, you are in the best position to know all this.

Bass Gear in Twyford have a 4001 up for £1500 (and £1600 on eBay). It's boring old Maple glow, but the neck is superb and it sounds and plays lovely. You would get a warranty and the back up from a respected dealer, plus if you walked in with the readies you might get it for a bit less. But, you pays your extra for the after sales piece of mind.

There are 4003's at the £1500 to £2000 mark on eBay that have been sitting for months. Anyone who buys off these shysters deserves to be fleeced. Plus no warranty or back up.

Last month I was offered a brand spanker 4003 from Wunjo for £1500, and who knows, I could've haggled.

I think a S/H 4003 Fire glow has just gone for £975, but buyer beware and all that.

So here you are with a vintage Ric that you are more than familiar with, that you have had rent free for 3 years. This is what I reckon..

I think £1200 is a very good price. Good for you and good for him. If you were being exceptionally kind you may offer £1300 to include the rent.

Any less than this and you will maybe feel you've put one over on your mate. I mean, I might offer him £1100, but I don't know the guy and it doesn't matter if I fall out with him.

If your mate thinks £1200 is too low tell him to bear in mind that if it snaps in half the day after you've bought it, then he has the money and you have the firewood.

But buy the Ric.
[/quote] Brilliant . Cheers. Re: cracks and bridge. I can't see any issues with these areas TBH.

I really appreciate all the comments on the thread. I'm aware that I've had a really good deal over the past three years and I'm grateful for that (puts a whole new meaning on try before you buy !-) ). Gonna see if I can raise the necessary spondulics

[GregBass]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1378061027' post='2195346']
I've found over the years that most of the basses at bargain prices aren't for sale.
[/quote]

I'm not so sure that 1200 is unduly cheap. It seems to be about the going, realistic rate if you check sold listings on ebay.

Pristine? Unmarked? Or "road worn"? I prefer to say well used. It's not battered, but has a few marks and scratches.

Greg

[gelfin]

For what it's worth I reckon you've had a good deal already with the loan. I wouldn't lend mine out at all.

If you really like this bass then offer him the best / most you can afford. If you lose it you may never find another Ric "just like it"

Just like any brand there are model and quality variations. I love my Ric but have tried other used ones and some new ones and just didn't like them.

[Lowender]

For some reason, "roadworn" Rics don't have the cache' or worn Fenders. A Rick is slick, a P is blue collar. It's just has a different appeal. Jeans look good scuffed, a tuxedo does not.

Also, Rics don't have a great vintage appeal. The best Rics are the newer ones. I recently sold a 79' in pristine condition for the price of a slightly used 2012. And I think I really made out on the deal. The 2012 is simply a better instrument.

So, long.short...I think 1200 is more than fair. I don't think you'll do much better elsewhere.

[GregBass]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1378088910' post='2195677']
I'm not sure I agree with that.
The 4001 I used to have knocked the spots off the 2010 4003 I bought.
[/quote]

What he said. I've had two old 4001s - the 79 I have now and a 72 that I sold to raise the deposit for a house many years ago - and I have yet to play a new Rick that is noticeably better than either.

[bigd1]

I have a 73 4001 in [size=4]Fireglo[/size] with original case, that has been valued by a bass specialist retailer at £2500, although what it's valued at and what it will sell for are very different things.
As has been said, with the loan you have had £1200 sounds a great price to me. I don't think that is expensive for what seems to be a Rick in good condition, and you like this one, you may find it hard to get another one you like as much.

Ta very glad
BIGd

[4000]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1378084874' post='2195675']

Also, Rics don't have a great vintage appeal. The best Rics are the newer ones. I recently sold a 79' in pristine condition for the price of a slightly used 2012. And I think I really made out on the deal. The 2012 is simply a better instrument.

So, long.short...I think 1200 is more than fair. I don't think you'll do much better elsewhere.
[/quote]

I've had 15 or so of them, played dozens if not hundreds and my favourites are definitely my '72s; the only new ones that have come close for me are the C-Series. FWIW I'm not overly keen on any of the '75-'80 basses I've tried or owned (with one exception).

I'd probably agree on the value though.

[karlfer]

[quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1378115107' post='2195807']
I have a 73 4001 in [size=4]Fireglo[/size] with original case, that has been valued by a bass specialist retailer at £2500, although what it's valued at and what it will sell for are very different things.
As has been said, with the loan you have had £1200 sounds a great price to me. I don't think that is expensive for what seems to be a Rick in good condition, and you like this one, you may find it hard to get another one you like as much.

Ta very glad
BIGd
[/quote]

The specialist retailer will have the time to wait it out, and will be wanting to make a good bit on it. At £2500 he would be looking to make a minimum of £400/£500 on a used instrument (double that on new).
He will want to make this because it is not an everyday bread and butter seller.
Most likely it will be on a commission basis , so he has everything to gain, no investment, no money tied up in that stock item so time taken to sell is irrelevant.
The reality is the vast majority of second hand Ricks that ACTUALLY SELL privately are going for between £1000 and £1300.
NB, female musical instrument retailers are available

[Lowender]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1378088910' post='2195677']
I'm not sure I agree with that.
The 4001 I used to have knocked the spots off the 2010 4003 I bought.
[/quote]

Of course, there are always exceptions. I was referring more to overall consistency and quality -- though I know many feel the early 70's were superior whereas they clearly slipped by 79. But the newer ones I've played have all been good.

[paulconnolly]

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciate the advice. If I do decide to buy it I'll let you know how much I pay for it.