Fender Mexican, good, bad or ugly?

[Lowender]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1378489352' post='2201140']
I'm not really much of a Fender player these days, but I've played and owned a number of MIA and MIM basses over the years.
Some were good, others were horrid and a couple were superb.

Interestingly, I've never found a horrid MIJ though.
I think the Japanese have a far more robust and mature QC culture and the ability to mass produce things to a set standard.

[b]I think the USA have lost that ability and the Mexicans haven't got to grips with it yet.[/b]

My advice would always have to be, if you're looking at MIA or MIM, try before you buy but if you're looking at an MIJ then you're unlikely to be upset with a blind purchase.
[/quote]

The MIA vary from year to year, from the CBS take over, to some nice one's in the 70's to a big fall from grace in the late 80's and early 90's to the superb 2005-2012 years and the 2013 seem like they've slipped a bit again. I'm not sure of the reason beyond this year to year inconsistency that seems to be consistent throughout the line. EVERY 20111 J bass I played was great and EVERY 2013 I've played seems not up to par.

And yes, the Mexicans never quite got it -- though from the start they consciously cut corners.

I believe Squier had attempted to take over the Mexi market and the Classic Vibe series is essentially their "custom shop" line. For less money than the MIM. Right now they're making outstanding stuff. Next year -- who knows?

[icastle]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378489590' post='2201142']
Eh? Who said that?
[/quote]

It was the big lads, they made me do it.

[Roger2611]

I have a varied bunch, A MIM Telecaster and a 50's Classic P both are spot on, my American Precision is a typically badly built, overly heavy 70's pile of poo but the neck is great and it just has THAT sound...you know the one! I have a Jap 62 reissue Strat and a 86 P Bass Lyte both again are utterly faultless but I have just picked up a Squier Mike Dirnt Precision built in Korea probably by children and bang for buck it is more of a "smile on your face" guitar than any of the "proper" ones!

[lonestar]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378464291' post='2200635']


That post will be ever Unforgiven.
[/quote]

Try one Any Which Way you Can and you may be Beguiled

[karlfer]

Some of you lot would cause a punch up in a convent. Some interesting thoughts as ever.
Whilst there is the inevitable staters of "they are crap, period" from the usual ones who have played 2 or 3, there is the other extreme of devout followers.
No surprises really.
The comparison with Japanese always astounds me. I have had a lot of Japanese Fenders. They are always beautifully made, usually heavy and often a little less ballsy than their US counterparts. They just seem to be a bit kind off soul-less.But that's food for another thread.
For me, my EXPERIENCE over the last couple of years is that every Mex I have used has been pretty damn good.
The title of the thread was a complete accident. When it was pointed out and I finally twigged, I was just a tad embarrassed

[Thunderpaws]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1378458578' post='2200483']
For more or less the same money, a G&L Tribute beats any MIM Fender hands down anytime.


[url="https://www.glguitars.com/instruments/TributeSeries/basses/index.asp"]https://www.glguitars.com/instruments/TributeSeries/basses/index.asp[/url]
[/quote]

I agree. Of the fender mim offerings I wanted to buy, all of them were insignificant compared to the L2000 I had no intention of buying but did buy.

[Count Bassy]

AFAICR I've only played one Mexican Fender which is my MIM Urge Mk1. It's a great instrument. Sounds good an plays well. I also have a USA built one. It is a better instrument, but mainly in terms of features (E.g. smaller head stock, enclosed (Better IMO) tuners, extra pick up, passive/active, micro tilt neck etc) rather than fundamental build quality. Neck and fret board on the Mex are great.

It cost me half what the US one cost and was worth every penny. Sadly moved onto 5 strings these days so neither gets played much.

[Green Alsatian]

I've had Squiers (CV P, VM P and VM J), MIM Standards (P & J), a MIM 50s P, a MIA '62 Reissue Jazz and a MIA 2010 P.

In terms of fit & finish, I've been lucky with only minor issues on one of the Squiers and the MIM Jazz V I had.

Soundwise, there were differences down to the pickups used - the MIM had ceramic bar magnets and the Squiers, 50s, '62 RI and 2010 P all had alnico pickups. The MIMs sounded a bit brighter (but still controllable with the tone control). Which was better? I couldn't say as they each had their qualities. I didn't change the pickups on any of them, liking them 'stock' as they provided the sound I expected.

The biggest difference, for me was how the necks felt and of the Jazzes, the '62 Reissue felt the nicest to me (I like glossy necks), especially around the edges of the neck. Of the Precisions, I loved the wide vintage neck on the 50s but the rolled-edge neck on the 2010 MIA was a step above in terms of playing comfort.

The hardware, too - the tuners on the 2010 MIA felt nicer when operating them than the others. I also rather like the new Fender high-mass bridge, from an aesthetic and functional point of view.

Which instrument I buy is usually governed by how much I have to spend at the time, and there's always a Squier or Fender in that price bracket to cover my needs. Same with many other brands.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Green Alsatian

[Judo Chop]

This thread made me curious about the build quality of Mexican made Fenders so I decided to take my precision apart.
Unfortunately I don't have an American Standard or Japanese Fender to compare it to, but I do have a Vintage Modified Squier that I'll dismantle to compare with this one later.

I'm not sure if it's common practice or what but it looks to me like they've routed out a pair of mystery holes on the body and neck socket, which also has six other useless holes and two little grooves in the corners closest to the pickups.

I'm no expert on guitar making by any means, but this one looks like the work experience lad had a go at it. Surely they're not all like this?

[discreet]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1378575845' post='2202061']
I'm not sure if it's common practice or what but it looks to me like they've routed out a pair of mystery holes on the body and neck socket, which also has six other useless holes and two little grooves in the corners closest to the pickups.
[/quote]

I believe the bigger ones are location holes so that the CNC machine has a reference point.

Edited September 7, 2013 by discreet

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378576441' post='2202073']


I believe the bigger ones are location holes so that the CNC machine has a reference point.
[/quote]

The two big holes or the six little ones?

[discreet]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1378576685' post='2202077']
The two big holes or the six little ones?
[/quote]

The big holes. I've no idea what the little holes are for.

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378576713' post='2202078']


The big holes. I've no idea what the little holes are for.
[/quote]

Silly question, didn't notice you said the big ones!

[discreet]

These posts from a thread on TalkBass:

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'According to folks on Forums.Fender.com it's actually an 'anchor' hole. Apparently they first clamp onto the raw (rectangular?) body blank, and then route the pickup cavities/neck pocket/control cavity and anchor hole, and then they insert clamping tools into one of the pickup routes AND the anchor hole to hold the body still and in the correct position, while they shape the outside contours. This makes some sense as the hole is directly under a flat portion of the back, and as far as possible from other routes(mechanical advantage). In other words it provides a worry-free place to clamp the body during shaping.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'Here is the weird thing. On exact same models, Fender sometimes has the hole and sometimes don't. The 60's classic Jazz bass, for example does not have the CNC on its earlier year versions. Same with the Road Worn series. When I was searching for a Road Worn jazz recently, I asked if it had the CNC and it did not so I purchased. (of course the RW's have "ROAD W" carved in 'em. But other models don't have carvings or pickup routes and Fender goes ahead and kills the look with a CNC.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'It seems as though Fender has standardized their manufacturing and many of their later year models will have this CNC hole.[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]But the AVRI series never did, not on even one. Wonder if the new American Vintage series has the CNC or routes for that matter?[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'If you want a clean body free of routes and CNC holes look at anything MIJ or CIJ. The Japanese made basses are free of this.[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Even the black Geddy Lee I own has no guard on it right now and looks very cool IMO. BUT since Fender changed manufacturing plants from Japan to Mexico you will notice that there is now a CNC under the guard. I also had a '62 Jazz that was CIJ and that had no holes/routes. Japanese manufacturing plants seem very concerned with aesthetic detail IMO. I noticed their sunburst finishes always seem perfect. Again IMHO.'[/font][/color]

Edited September 7, 2013 by discreet

[Conan]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1378575845' post='2202061']I'm not sure if it's common practice or what but it looks to me like they've routed out a pair of mystery holes on the body and neck socket, Surely they're not all like this?[/quote]

I currently have a Mex J bass on loan from the guitarist in my band. It felt and played like a dog so I took it to pieces this morning...

There was one of those "mystery holes" between the neck pickup and the bottom horn. But that was not all!

There was a lot of strange waxy whitish powdery stuff between the scratchplate and the body, and also in the routed cavities. I assume it to be some sort of buffing compound or maybe very fine sawdust from the final finishing. Whatever it was, I don't think it should have been left there but cleaned off before final assembly.

There was also a lot of another waxy compound on the four screws holding the neck into the body. As I withdrew the screws, little bits of this wax were falling off all over the place. I had to be careful, when re-assembling, not to get any bits between the neck plate and the body so that it would still fit snugly. Again, I am unsure why this stuff was there and why it was present in such quantity.

I was rather disappointed to notice that the control cavity rout and the neck pickup rout were joined together. Obviously this saves time and makes manufacture easier, but it means that the bass can't be played with the scratchplate off. That is a bloody shame, as I really like that look . My CIJ Geddy Lee did not have this "body canal" and therefore I did play it without the plate. It looked very cool indeed (IMO).

The bridge seems a bit naff, and the E and G strings seem a long way in from the edge of the fretboard. Obviously you don't want them hanging off the edge, but to far in is not great either. Also, the E and G strings do not seem to quite align properly with the pole pieces of the pickups. It is almost as if the bridge was designed for a different bass! Not massive problems, but taken all together they just make the bass feel a bit shonky.

It is dated at 2009 on the neck and pocket (in case this is at all relevant!). I am yet to plug it in, as today has been a bit of a "spring-cleaning" day after the school holidays . Did manage to put a brand new set of RS66LDs on it though... clang-tastic!

Edited September 7, 2013 by Conan

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378577236' post='2202091']
These posts from a thread on TalkBass:

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'According to folks on Forums.Fender.com it's actually an 'anchor' hole. Apparently they first clamp onto the raw (rectangular?) body blank, and then route the pickup cavities/neck pocket/control cavity and anchor hole, and then they insert clamping tools into one of the pickup routes AND the anchor hole to hold the body still and in the correct position, while they shape the outside contours. This makes some sense as the hole is directly under a flat portion of the back, and as far as possible from other routes(mechanical advantage). In other words it provides a worry-free place to clamp the body during shaping.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'Here is the weird thing. On exact same models, Fender sometimes has the hole and sometimes don't. The 60's classic Jazz bass, for example does not have the CNC on its earlier year versions. Same with the Road Worn series. When I was searching for a Road Worn jazz recently, I asked if it had the CNC and it did not so I purchased. (of course the RW's have "ROAD W" carved in 'em. But other models don't have carvings or pickup routes and Fender goes ahead and kills the look with a CNC.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'It seems as though Fender has standardized their manufacturing and many of their later year models will have this CNC hole.[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]But the AVRI series never did, not on even one. Wonder if the new American Vintage series has the CNC or routes for that matter?[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]'If you want a clean body free of routes and CNC holes look at anything MIJ or CIJ. The Japanese made basses are free of this.[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Even the black Geddy Lee I own has no guard on it right now and looks very cool IMO. BUT since Fender changed manufacturing plants from Japan to Mexico you will notice that there is now a CNC under the guard. I also had a '62 Jazz that was CIJ and that had no holes/routes. Japanese manufacturing plants seem very concerned with aesthetic detail IMO. I noticed their sunburst finishes always seem perfect. Again IMHO.'[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Ah I see, it makes sense now cheers

[discreet]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1378577763' post='2202106']
There was a lot of strange waxy whitish powdery stuff between the scratchplate and the body, and also in the routed cavities.
[/quote]

That's cocaine residue. The workers are given vast amounts of it to keep them going.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1378577763' post='2202106']
Geddy Lee did not have this "body canal"...
[/quote]

I knew there was something weird about that bloke. [size=4] [/size]

[discreet]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1378577925' post='2202110']
Ah I see, it makes sense now cheers
[/quote]

Yooouuuuuuuuuu're welcome.

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378578022' post='2202111']
That's cocaine residue. The workers are given vast amounts of it to keep them going.

I knew there was something weird about that bloke.
[/quote]

Just stop it!

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378577236' post='2202091']
[color=#000000]Even the black Geddy Lee I own has no guard on it right now and looks very cool IMO. BUT since Fender changed manufacturing plants from Japan to Mexico you will notice that there is now a CNC under the guard. I also had a '62 Jazz that was CIJ and that had no holes/routes. Japanese manufacturing plants seem very concerned with aesthetic detail IMO. I noticed their sunburst finishes always seem perfect. Again IMHO.'[/color]
[/quote]

Aha! I missed this post whilst I was typing! So now I know!

I know to look out for another CIJ Geddy, that is!

Although, that said - if the Japanese plant can manage it, why can't the US and Mexican ones?

Edited September 7, 2013 by Conan

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378578022' post='2202111']


That's cocaine residue. The workers are given vast amounts of it to keep them going.
[size=4] [/size]
[/quote]

Whoever made mine was certainly on something

[discreet]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1378578360' post='2202122']
...if the Japanese plant can manage it, why can't the US and Mexican ones?
[/quote]

I read in a corresponding thread on here somewhere that it may be due to the fact that the Japanese have had a very well-established quality control and assurance culture for many decades and their manufacturing is different as a result.
Whether it's true or not I don't know.

Edited September 7, 2013 by discreet

[karlfer]

Well, that answers that then!
Might as well take my Mexican Geddy off sale now
Good job I rather like gigging it then

[discreet]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1378581269' post='2202173']
Might as well take my Mexican Geddy off sale now [size=4]Good job I rather like gigging it then [/size]
[/quote]

Oh crap.

[karlfer]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378581539' post='2202178']
Oh crap.
[/quote]

It ain't that bad
(actually, it's better than the Japanese Geddys I've had coz it's not as bloody heavy)