Help buying a doublebass

[incubass]

Hey there!

I've been a bass player for some years, but I recently came across with the necessity of buying and learning to play the double bass, and realized I know nothing about it...

Can you please guide me a little bit to know where I should be looking for a nice double bass to play mainly Folk, Acoustic, Jazz, Pop, etc? I need a good instrument, since I'm a professional musician and I need it to sound good in a pop concert environment. The pickup is also very important, right?

I'm really lost here, since I don't know which websites to look for, or where to buy the double bass. I'm from Portugal, so I'll probably have to order the bass without trying it first.


My price limit would be about 4500gbp for the bass+pickup.


Thanks a lot for the help!

Cheers,
Pedro

Edited September 6, 2013 by incubass

[geoffbassist]

Hey Pedro,
this is a tough problem to solve as it's so hard to find somewhere to try instruments out etc... and buying any instrument unseen is a bit of a gamble. That said I would look at Thomman's website as I know they have some fans who like the instruments. However any bass you buy is very likely to need a set up so you would still need to find a local luthier to set it up, unless you were very lucky. Of course a local luthier may be able to help you find a decent bass and should have a good idea of whats out there.

My approach would contact the local pro players, classical/jazz and see if they know of any second hand ones. If you haven't had any lessons it might be a good idea to get in touch asking for some technique lessons and for help in buying a bass.

Pick up wise I recommend the Fishman full circle which needs to be fitted, as it is housed in some bridge adjusters. I think it's worth doing, but if you get a bass that doesn't have them and is ready to go, I would go for the Realist. There are loads of discussions online as to which you might prefer. Check out Jonas Lohse's amazing gear guide for a good overview as to whats available: http://doublebassguide.com

Another quick tip that may help is that you should be able to use your existing amp, but depending on your amps impedance and feature you may benefit from an out board preamp like the Fishman pro platinum. I would buy the bass and pick up first and see if you are happy with the results, if not it may be a help.

Good luck.

[fatback]

With that kind of budget, you might be tempted buy an all solid wood bass, but several experienced folks on here reckon they're too feedback prone for loud gigs.

You might find hybrid (solid top, ply sides) the best compromise between tone and feedback resistance.

Along with Thomann, Gedo is the other supplier favoured by buyers who can;t get to view many second hand basses.

http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/category.php?id_category=40

A good bit of info on this thread:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/216167-im-looking-for-a-34-double-bass-any-useful-suggestions/

[incubass]

Right now I'm planning my lessons for this year and contacting some local players to find out where they bought their double basses

I'm researching the websites you provided, and came across with this Cristopher (http://www.thomann.de/pt/christopher_db_404_double_bass_3_4_b_stock.htm), it looks nice! Although my price limit is 4500gbp, I would be much happier if I could find a 2500gbp great bass...

Any thoughts on this particular bass?

[fatback]

[quote name='incubass' timestamp='1378554791' post='2201754']
Right now I'm planning my lessons for this year and contacting some local players to find out where they bought their double basses

I'm researching the websites you provided, and came across with this Cristopher ([url="http://www.thomann.de/pt/christopher_db_404_double_bass_3_4_b_stock.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...3_4_b_stock.htm[/url]), it looks nice! Although my price limit is 4500gbp, I would be much happier if I could find a 2500gbp great bass...

Any thoughts on this particular bass?
[/quote]

Looks lovely and I want it!

it is fully carved though, so there is that question about feedback resistance. i remember some folks on here reporting hellish problems when amped up loud.

[yanto]

[quote name='incubass' timestamp='1378554791' post='2201754']
Right now I'm planning my lessons for this year and contacting some local players to find out where they bought their double basses

I'm researching the websites you provided, and came across with this Cristopher ([url="http://www.thomann.de/pt/christopher_db_404_double_bass_3_4_b_stock.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...3_4_b_stock.htm[/url]), it looks nice! Although my price limit is 4500gbp, I would be much happier if I could find a 2500gbp great bass...

Any thoughts on this particular bass?
[/quote]

I played one of these as a rental bass in the US and my impressions were of a well-constructed instrument that played very nicely. Sounded very decent acoustically as well. It's all in the set up though. No feedback problems but this is so variable with combinations of pickups, amps, going through foldback, stage volume, etc. My personal experience is that a solid wood bass doesn't necessarily feed back any more than a ply one, but I'm sure there'll be plenty of other players with an opposing experience! There's plenty of discussion on the merits of Christopher basses on talkbass.com.
Iain

Edited September 7, 2013 by yanto

[incubass]

It looks like a very nice bass, I got a very good impression by reading some stuff at talkbass. Do you think the gap in quality (over the Christopher 404) would justify the bigger investment in any of these basses?

[url="http://www.thomann.de/pt/klaus_heffler_kontrabass_nr210_3_4_gamba.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...0_3_4_gamba.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.thomann.de/pt/rothjunius_europe_lions_head_bass_3_4.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...ad_bass_3_4.htm[/url]

I could get the funds to buy one of these, but by the research I've been doing, I really don't think it would be worth it (over the Christopher 404). What's your opinion?


Thank you very much, guys, I was really lost here and now I'm finally being able to draw conclusions


P.S.: What's the most common bass shape for folk stuff, etc? Gamba seems so weird to me! I really like the looks of violin and busseto shapes, though.

Edited September 7, 2013 by incubass

[ubassman]

Maybe you don't need to spend your full budget? You can get a really decent bass for much less and if its your first venture into playing a DB it may be wise to get a good second hand instrument which may be already reasonably well set up?

When I first started I inevitably had to get used to carrying the instrument and I have to say there where quite a few accidental taps and knocks getting used to its shape , weight and volume moving through doors, learning how to put it into the back of a car and out again , going up winding stairs etc. I also learnt the lesson the hard way that double basses don't like extremes in moisture or temperature and got a crack develop in the top after playing in the sunshine ! Perhaps a good thought would be to consider starting out with a bass that you don't mind getting the odd 'ding' or 'dent' on !

The budget that you have available is fantastic but it can be quite peculiar when it comes to reselling a bass worth £4.5k ( have a look at the DB for sale section on here and you will see that these hang around for a while) . You tend to find that more advanced players will be attracted to spending that kind of money on a vintage bass that has been 'played in' over many years and has a rich resonating tone ....or save up for a bass up at the £10k + range ! Most people who take up DB usually talk about a budget typically between £500 - £1000 and you can pick up a great Gedo for around £1200 ( or an older German or Czech ply ) ...and spend a bit extra on set up and decent strings + pickup .

So, perhaps would be to look at maybe a Gedo or a Stentor (or an old ply ) which hold their value at around £1200 and will always be affordable to many as a re-sale ...and most importantly are also great instruments! Either way hope its not too one before you get your instrument - and welcome to DB fraternity on BC !

Edited September 7, 2013 by ubassman

[Marc S]

Good luck loo[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]king for your bass[/font]
[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]I'm looking for a DB too.....
Although I'm not looking to spend nearly as much as you

I started with a Stagg electric DB - they're cheap,
and I'd say they're a good starting point[/font]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]I'm interested in what anyone reading this thread thinks about the pickups you would need to use;
i.e. which types of pickups are best for different basses, and different styles of playing / music[/font]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]Good luck with your search
Marc[/font]

[fatback]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1378587988' post='2202260']
Good luck loo[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]king for your bass[/font]
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I'm looking for a DB too.....
Although I'm not looking to spend nearly as much as you

I started with a Stagg electric DB - they're cheap,
and I'd say they're a good starting point[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I'm interested in what anyone reading this thread thinks about the pickups you would need to use;
i.e. which types of pickups are best for different basses, and different styles of playing / music[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Good luck with your search
Marc[/font]
[/quote]

I think the consensus is that it depends hugely on the combination of pup, preamp and bass. A fair amount of potentially expensive trial and error, unless you're lucky.

I haven't seen anybody suggest different pickups for different music - strings seem the critical factor there.

[Marc S]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1378637785' post='2202589']
I think the consensus is that it depends hugely on the combination of pup, preamp and bass. A fair amount of potentially expensive trial and error, unless you're lucky.

I haven't seen anybody suggest different pickups for different music - strings seem the critical factor there.
[/quote]

Don't rockabilly-style players use additional pickups placed behind the fingerboard, for the "click" sounds?
I've also heard of dual pickups, which act as piezo type pickups, with built-in additional click pickups....
Do players of other styles also use these pickups?

Like I say, I'm interested in what different players use....
It's all new to me, and I need pickups for my DB too....

Cheers
Marc

[marvin spangles]

Hi Pedro
Looks like you've got a load of good advice here. I'd go along with a lot of what Geoffbassist says.
Another way of looking at your problem
Set aside £200-300 for a good pick up. Eg Full circle
£500-1000 for amplification
£300 for set up.
£200 for strings
That leaves up to £2700 for your bass.
It would be my opinion that you should get the best ply bass you can for this money. A lot has been said about the Thomann basses. I have no first hand experience but I know of at least one pro that uses a basic ply with a good set up. I have played some Shen basses and can testify to their superb build quality and value for money.
Good luck in your quest

[Rabbie]

Lots of pros use well set up plys on the road. I do too: easier to deal with than a carved top and good direct sound that suit all styles apart from straight classical I guess. As for the 'clicker' in the pickup, some slap players use it but a lot of people I know, me included, find it too harsh.
All the people above have given you some excellent advice.

[stingrayPete1977]

A top of the range Gedo set up by a top Luthier with a full circle fitted to a nice bridge professionally fitted and adjusted will always be a better bass to play than a vintage bass for four grand that would be eight grand if it wasn't dogged with issues.
Total mine field ain't it?

[FLoydElgar]

Bryant will be ready for you to play instantly! Will last you for a lot longer. Bryantbasses.co.uk Contact him there... They are fantastic for everything... Also it's an English bass at half the price of what they should be
Bryants are under 4k handmade - but don't quote me on that... But price mainly depends on hardware and strings...
A good bass will make your sound improve dramatically and you won't have to pay for any major set ups... Go home on trial and play it


You can get everything else later... I think a good bass is more important than gear...
But that's my pennies worth..
-F

[bassace]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1378732643' post='2203831']
Bryant will be ready for you to play instantly! Will last you for a lot longer. Bryantbasses.co.uk Contact him there... They are fantastic for everything... Also it's an English bass at half the price of what they should be
Bryants are under 4k handmade - but don't quote me on that... But price mainly depends on hardware and strings...
A good bass will make your sound improve dramatically and you won't have to pay for any major set ups... Go home on trial and play it


You can get everything else later... I think a good bass is more important than gear...
But that's my pennies worth..
-F
[/quote]

I agree with all of that, but is he still making basses? I played in the house rhythm section a while ago and lent my Bryant to a player for a couple of tunes. She (because it was) just couldn't believe the sound and playability. There are two kinds of DB player; those that frown and those that smile. My Bryant does that to me.

[incubass]

Thank you so much for all the information! I gathered a lot of useful info and I think I'm prepared to make a decision in the next couple of days. I still have some doubts (fishman vs realist, which strings to buy), but I believe one ore two more days of research and I'll make my order

I guess one more person is joining the double bass family soon!!

[ubassman]

Paul Bryant has retired and sadly isn't making his wonderful basses anymore.

[bassace]

Just follow this link and look at the 8 Sept advert. Whenever I hear a bass described as bright and clear my interest is aroused. At £800 could be a very good buy with that pedigree. Worth a phone call.

[url="https://www.musicalchairs.info/double-bass/sales"]https://www.musicalchairs.info/double-bass/sales[/url]

[FLoydElgar]

A friend of mine is in contact with Paul and he still does make the Bryants. He's buying a bass soon so... It's Worth a call...

A friend bought one about 2-3 months ago at max... He makes them when he wants to... Not to order or to spec you buy what he feels like making

Edited September 9, 2013 by FLoydElgar

[SevenSeas]

Paul is still making basses, only the 'soloist' model (which is still fantastic) however he doesn't make them to order. So he'll make one, if you like it you buy it. If you don't, someone else will.

I'm currently on the waiting list (which is quite long as far as i'm aware) he said to me he should possibly have one to try for the end of this year but more likely the start of next year. Depending on the people before me, if they buy one of not.

I have to admit I'm waiting on the Bryant, heard great things about them and can't be beaten for price. (£3750 - £4750) I think this was roughly the quote I had sent to me. The price varies depending on woods used and wether or not the tuning pegs are made by hand or by machine. (it's probably worth contacting Paul)

Thomas Martin recommended his 3/4 Concert Model which was £5000 + Vat which is another option. (Haven't played one but it's probably also very good.

[Rabbie]

The nice gentleman asking for advice is at a pre-beginner stage in his double bass career. A Bryant or a Martin may be a trifle optimistic as a first bass....a bit like buying a Jaguar before starting driving lessons.
It is great to start as a pro on another instrument: this will help hugely with musicality as a whole, but the development of 2 good double bass hands will take considerable investment in time time time and patience (and pain). Many fall along the way, so probably best to aim low at the very beginning, at least you can keep your first bass as a deputy bass when you graduate to your fancy one. There are plenty of well made basses at mid-low price points as the Thomann website illustrates. By the way, Nobody is likely to care about how posh a bass is on a pop/folk music stage (I personally testify to this), and you can make excellent music on a modest bass too.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Rabbie

[ubassman]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1378761163' post='2204481']
Paul is still making basses, only the 'soloist' model (which is still fantastic) however he doesn't make them to order. So he'll make one, if you like it you buy it. If you don't, someone else will.

I'm currently on the waiting list (which is quite long as far as i'm aware) he said to me he should possibly have one to try for the end of this year but more likely the start of next year. Depending on the people before me, if they buy one of not.

[/quote]

Thanks for that ...interesting!

I was just talking to Paul yesterday on a luthier matter and that sums it up well . He was saying that he has retired and isn't taking any more orders . He is on a different timescale now and may make an instrument as and when / [b]if [/b]he feels like it and has the joy of a list of waiting customers to exhaust with any bass that may or may not come out of his workshop i.e. if you are IBTL then great... if not he seems to be wanting to draw a line so he can enjoy his retirement. I not so sure how easy it might be for Pedro to get onto the list but in any event there seems to be a healthy line of people in front ...so it may be quite some wait !

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1378803796' post='2204728']
Thanks for that ...interesting!

I was just talking to Paul yesterday on a luthier matter and that sums it up well . He was saying that he has retired and isn't taking any more orders . He is on a different timescale now and may make an instrument as and when / [b]if [/b]he feels like it and has the joy of a list of waiting customers to exhaust with any bass that may or may not come out of his workshop i.e. if you are IBTL then great... if not he seems to be wanting to draw a line so he can enjoy his retirement. I not so sure how easy it might be for Pedro to get onto the list but in any event there seems to be a healthy line of people in front ...so it may be quite some wait !
[/quote]

I wish I knew how many people were on the list. Hopefully he doesn't retire completely before I have chance to buy one. They really are great basses (according to everyone who has one).

[fatback]

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1378765344' post='2204561']
The nice gentleman asking for advice is at a pre-beginner stage in his double bass career. A Bryant or a Martin may be a trifle optimistic as a first bass....a bit like buying a Jaguar before starting driving lessons.
It is great to start as a pro on another instrument: this will help hugely with musicality as a whole, but the development of 2 good double bass hands will take considerable investment in time time time and patience (and pain). Many fall along the way, so probably best to aim low at the very beginning, at least you can keep your first bass as a deputy bass when you graduate to your fancy one. There are plenty of well made basses at mid-low price points as the Thomann website illustrates. By the way, Nobody is likely to care about how posh a bass is on a pop/folk music stage (I personally testify to this), and you can make excellent music on a modest bass too.
[/quote]

Have to agree with this. I play the same kind of music as the OP, and I'd have a heart attack if I had to worry about a 4K bass in those venues. As it is, I get accused by the band of acting like a mother hen around my bass.