Should we be in bands for money, or for enjoyment?

[FinnDave]

I agree with your analysis of the reply to your advert, but I still read it that the bloke likes gigging for its own sake, not for the money specifically, and I would call gigging for the enjoyment of playing live music mercenary.

Personally I agree with sticking to one band, to achieve its full potential a band needs members who 100% dedicated to it, not people sharing their time and energy among several bands

[maldy]

I can see both sides of this, but must admit that doing it for enjoyment with like minded people is my preference.

My first band was purely a passion for me as I believed in the music we were playing. All the members initially had the same ideas. We gigged because we just wanted people to hear our music. As we got more gigs it sometimes got expensive travelling around for not much money. It was not fair on some of us. Some of us were driving, some were not (and on the beer), some had less free time. Consequently we started doing only the gigs that paid well. We started playing music that would get us well paid gigs. We started doing stuff that we didn't like and started individually not enjoying the experience. We broke up! I guess we all grew to want different things.

I really want to meet up with my old comrades just for a one of jam; we always had good spontaneity and chemistry. Sadly the guitarist doesn't want to. He said he is concentrating on forming a wedding band, because 'that's where the money is'. His aim is to eventually become a full time musician and give up his job. I can't knock him for following his beliefs. It is not what I want though and we have to agree to disagree.

What I've learnt is that it is wise to be aware what each member wants when you start a band. It surprisingly gets more difficult as you get older - it seems people have so much more on their plates.

[mcnach]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1378544560' post='2201577']
[b]Should we be in bands for money, or for enjoyment?[/b]

I ask this because I’ve been trying to put a band together for a couple of years now, and I’m amazed at how “mercenary” a lot of musicians are.

I have advertised for musicians on all the usual sites, and here’s just a couple of examples (I've had many many more like these):

[i]“I live in Stevenage , got over 1000 gigs under my belt , blues / rock player , but would be interested, if the band has a go getter approach to gigging and not spending hours in a rehearsal room”.[/i]

[i]“I'm 38 plenty of gig exp, pro gear, great tone, I'll be honest with you I'm in 2 gigging bands at the moment but maybe looking to ditch one, maybe both if one band gets busy, I just love playing live”.[/i]

I absolutely love playing music with other musicians, especially in a "live" situation, but I also like rehearsing, and I also like playing at home learning new material, but it seems that there are a lot of people out there, who seem to put earning money first.

Surely rehearsing with your bandmates helps with getting to know each other as people, helps with bonding, and most importantly, it helps with getting the band tight and ready to gig.

So many people have told me they don't want to rehearse, and some of these are not even great musicians, so are they thinking they are better than they really are, and if they really are that good, why do they choose to miss out on the "team" building that comes with regular rehearsals? don't get me wrong, once the band is ready, I'm up for gigging most of the time and only going into the studio to learn new material.

So is it just me, am I old fashioned, or should I just join a gigging band, learn the songs at home, just turn up for the gig, play the songs, and then go home afterwards not really knowing the guys I've just been playing with properly?
[/quote]

money or enjoyment?

For me it's enjoyment first and foremost: I do not depend on gig money for my living. I still want to be paid if we provide a service that others would charge for. But it's got to be enjoyable or there's no point for me.

I know other people for whom gig money is a substantial part of their income, so their attitude is different. They are in wedding bands and play functions for good money... Not for me, 'though. I play plenty of bars, 'though, where you still have to deal with drunks from time to time... but at least I can dismiss them (I could not at a wedding), we have security to deal with the truly obnoxious (you can't really get the groom's best man kicked out), and we play what we want to play more or less. The wedding band set lists I have seen make my soul vomit a little.

For me it's enjoyment.
I am in two tribute bands: RATM and RHCP. That's what we play. Some ask for Metallica, Nirvana or... even Beyonce (true story!), but it won't happen. We have played some Pearl Jam, and some Led Zep, on occasion, but because we all have played that stuff and we decided to humour someone in the audience.
My originals band (I'm in two, but I have only been long enough in one) is... well, our songs. That's it. We have played plenty of small unpaid gigs. We still play plenty of small gigs, and some unpaid. But we have been making a little money that pays for a lot of the stuff we do as a band so it's become self-funding. That's great, but I'd still do it if I had to pay money for our new amps or whatever. It's a lot of fun, and we get people dancing and having a great time with us. That's what I do it for. I get to go to festivals for free and watch other great bands, and all I have to do is... what? play at one of their stages? Brilliant!

Playing live is what I like.

Rehearsals... not so much.
I can totally get the first quote above. Some bands just practice again and again the same thing... that's not for me. Rehearsals are necessary but most bands I know overdo it. Rehearsals are there to get new material up to scratch, or to refresh material you haven't played in a while together. How many times must you rehearse a song before you decide "yup, we can play this alright together"?
Then there are the "jams" where a lot of our songwriting happens... but that's something else. If a band is not going to do originals, for me it's got to keep rehearsals to a bare minimum and focus on gigs. If you play enough gigs you don't even need rehearsals

[thebrig]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1378561329' post='2201856']
I agree with your analysis of the reply to your advert, but I still read it that the bloke likes gigging for its own sake, not for the money specifically, and I would call gigging for the enjoyment of playing live music mercenary.

Personally I agree with sticking to one band, to achieve its full potential a band needs members who 100% dedicated to it, not people sharing their time and energy among several bands
[/quote]
I guess you meant that you "wouldn't" call gigging for the enjoyment of playing live music mercenary, and if that's the case, I totally agree with you, but surely a band needs to get together to rehearse occasionally to reach the band's full potential, even orchestras rehearse.

And quite rightly, if you are playing a gig to the public, then you expect to be paid, and if you [u]are[/u] getting paid, then surely you owe it to the people who are paying you, to play to your full potential, which only comes through practising as a full band.

Sure, good musicians can learn a set at home, and turn up and play, and it will probably sound ok on the night with just a few mistakes here and there, but it can't possibly be as tight as it would be if they had all rehearsed together a few times.

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378556561' post='2201783']
Having band members who are in other bands is always a pain in the arse.
[/quote]

only if you are not organised. Until one of the bands is not *really busy*, it's rarely a problem in my experience. Only then it comes a point where you have to choose the band you want to focus on. I've always had clear which is my priority... but as long as I have time for more... I will do more.

I like people who play in more than one band because they tend to be more focused, and don't underestimate the increased networking ability. More and more I am discovering that getting nice gigs comes to be seen by the right people, and who you know or who knows about you.

[JTUK]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1378546882' post='2201619']
I agree everyone has different needs, but at the moment I have not worked for a couple of years as I was medically retired due to ill health, I get a small company pension but it's not a great amount, but despite this, for me, being part of a band is like a hobby, and the money earned from gigs although very welcome, is a bonus.

I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone should play for nothing, and I'm not talking about profressional musicians who do it for a living, I'm not even saying that wanting to earn money from being in a local band is wrong, I'm just pointing out that I'm surprised that so many musicians don't want to muck in, and get to know the guys they playing with.
[/quote]

Depends what circle you swim in. Guys who are full time do so because they can and want to. That makes them HAVE to be busy and they are mostly pretty good players. You'd want to play with them because they ARE good players and you'll want to be on the same pay scale, all things considered, if what you bring to the party is comparable. They may be the booker and do admin, run the P.A, have the name ect etc..and there might be a few quid over the top for them but not massively.
Having said that, it is their gig TOTALLY, you might be on wages but you'll know what sort of money the gig is worth so you will agree to it or not, depending how you value these things.
Of course, the gig needs to be a blast, and if you do it for the money pnly, then you need a lot of patience and need to put up with a lot as it becomes a job like anything else.

I know a guy round here... goes out for £50 gigs if it suits him, that turned down an act late 80's because they wouldn't pay £5k a week.
The act went on to become one of the biggest acts in the world and everytime I see the shows re-run, I recall it is as a very bad move.
I don't know if the guy regrets that stance now or agrees but that was his policy then, so...??
A lot of guys are about and will do dates as it is a good gig ..and it is possible that they are semi-retired and don't want the hassle or...?

The point being that that is their choice and they are the ones that know what they need or want to earn.

Plenty of people will dep but have a min fee they'll work for..... if they have enough gigs they are doing it right, if nobody gives them gigs, they've got it wrong.

BY the same token, you have to align yourselves with who you are trying to play with and the way they see the overall picture.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1378545717' post='2201599']
Either, Niether or both , totally depends on your desires and situation
[/quote]

Exactly. There's no "should" involved, as implied by the topic's

All sorts of people have all sorts of interests and unless they are truly professional (in the sense of earning a living) they spend a lot of their spare time and spare cash pursuing those interests. I've never really understood why musicians feel the need to earn money from their playing in order to pay for their gear when, for example, sailors, divers, cyclists, runners, climbers, etc etc rarely feel the need to earn money from their interests in order to justify spending time and money.

Perhaps it's because many musicians are secretly playing 'rock god' and believe that their 'fans' should shower them with a rich and famous lifestyle, just like their own idols?

[stingrayPete1977]

I have done enough gigs for the drummers girlfriends next door neighbour for free type gigs, when I joined the current band we were all in agreement that the freebies for mates and family would be kept to a minimum or not at all if possible although I am doing a freebie tonight! No pa or lights to set up and only a 45mins to an hour slot so not too bad. I have never auditioned for a band and never been without one so I am not about to start doing covers for free, original material is a whole new thread though IMO

[Roger2611]

Our band is a mix of both, personally I hate doing any gig that is only for the money...especially weddings....our best gig of the year is a charity gig for disabled kids, we are the main attraction it's a proper venue, proper PA and lighting and the same stage that I saw most of my musical heroes play on....It costs me an afternoon off work, being tired all the following day and petrol money to get there but, to me, playing doesn't get better than that!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1378569050' post='2201967']
Exactly. There's no "should" involved, as implied by the topic's

All sorts of people have all sorts of interests and unless they are truly professional (in the sense of earning a living) they spend a lot of their spare time and spare cash pursuing those interests. I've never really understood why musicians feel the need to earn money from their playing in order to pay for their gear when, for example, sailors, divers, cyclists, runners, climbers, etc etc rarely feel the need to earn money from their interests in order to justify spending time and money.

Perhaps it's because many musicians are secretly playing 'rock god' and believe that their 'fans' should shower them with a rich and famous lifestyle, just like their own idols?
[/quote]
What if you went to the NEC to watch a diving/cycling/running/climbing show with live performances, should they be paid? Obviously if they did it all at the same time it would be worth paying to see

[flyfisher]

Perhaps it's all about the enjoyment-payment equation. The more you enjoy playing, the less financial reward you need?

Maybe that's why playing cheesy covers for weddings seems to pay quite well? That would be too much like a real job for me.

[SpaceChick]

For me it's about the enjoyment

However, rehearsal rooms, fuel, equipment does not come cheap, so money is always welcome.

That said, I'll happily do charity gigs for free.

However, the big bit of the enjoyment for me is the buzz of gigging, all the home rehearsing and group rehearsing is fun and all, but it can't beat a live audience watching you!

[thebrig]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1378569050' post='2201967']
Exactly. There's no "should" involved, as implied by the topic's

All sorts of people have all sorts of interests and unless they are truly professional (in the sense of earning a living) they spend a lot of their spare time and spare cash pursuing those interests. I've never really understood why musicians feel the need to earn money from their playing in order to pay for their gear when, for example, sailors, divers, cyclists, runners, climbers, etc etc rarely feel the need to earn money from their interests in order to justify spending time and money.

Perhaps it's because many musicians are secretly playing 'rock god' and believe that their 'fans' should shower them with a rich and famous lifestyle, just like their own idols?
[/quote]
I totally agree!

I understand having to make the money back for your gear if you are doing it for a living, but I take out around £3,000 worth of gear every time I gig, I also have loads of other gear as well, like a Takemine 12-string acoustic, a Taylor acoustic, a Morgan Monroe mandolin, three other basses, a Stratocastor, a Les Paul, a Korg synth, all sorts of pedals, home recording gear etc..... and to be honest, I hardly use any of it other than my bass rig.
But if I was to give up playing in a band, I wouldn't sell them all, as it's my hobby and I would still play at home.

I played football for the best part of 25 years, and I spent fortunes on boots, subscriptions, kit, travelling to and from matches, and I also love fishing, and again, I have to fork out a lot of money for my fishing gear, licenses, bait etc... all for absolutely no return on my investments.

Quite frankly, most hobbies cost you money, it's very rare to make money from hobbies.

So for me, I'm quite happy to fork out to play in a band, because I love it.

[b]Please note[/b], I'm talking about us musicians whose level means that we have to work a bit harder, just to get tight enough to get the gigs in venues where the better musicians gig, believe me, our band has auditioned quite a few guitarists recently, and not one of them has been at the level we require, but quite a few of them expressed a dislike for rehearsing, and thought they were good enough to gig straight away.

[Thunderbird]

I am not in a band but I think if I was I would do it for enjoyment but if you get paid at least it pays for your gear and maybe a few extras

[51m0n]

I earn cash at work five days a week. I compose, rehearse and play music with my very original funk band. We play 'real' funk originals with a cinematic twist. If we break even I am in equal parts amazed, surprised and overjoyed. So far we have always managed that!

I love rehearsal time as much as gig time, since it is a highly creative endeavour.

I have played covers fir cash and it bored me senseless.....

[chris_b]

If you[i] have[/i] to enjoy a band or a gig or need to be mates with everyone then you are in a hobby, and that's fine.

This isn't a hobby for me and I don't play for enjoyment, but I do like to enjoy what I play.

Sometimes it's fun and sometimes it isn't. Either way I'm getting paid.

[TimR]

I have a wife and two kids. Going out practically every Saturday night to enjoy my 'hobby' wouldn't be tolerated if I didn't return with at least enough to take them to the Harvesters on Sunday night.

[4000]

I write & play because I need to. Not financially, but because it's my outlet. I'm not sure I could stop if I wanted.

The thought of playing something I don't enjoy simply for the money appalls me. I'd sooner not play at all. The thought of playing something I [i]enjoy[/i] for money is a different matter, but I do have to enjoy it and money isn't a motivator in any way, shape or form. For me, it's about creativity.

Edited September 7, 2013 by 4000

[Marvin]

My premise is simple. Whether I'm enjoy playing what my band are doing or not, if someone expects, or is making money out of my band's performance then I expect to be paid.

[dmccombe7]

Totally for enjoyment altho getting paid certainly makes me feel better.
Been in bands that rehearsed the songs to death. 1yr rehearsing to do one gig. Gave that up and current band doing own material rehearses every week but looking to gig as soon as I learn all their existing songs and we put together a few new songs with my input. Seems like a happy medium for me anyways.
Summary is I think you need to get paid as a driver for doing better and pushing yourself to play better as a band if that makes sense.

Dave

[JTUK]

What do I do it for..?

I do it because I want to play,
I am doing it because I want it to be good.
I think I can do it better ( no reforms for old times sake for me... that ship has passed and we've moved on...)
I've invested a lot getting to where I see myself ( time, effort and financial outlay..?

Why would I not expect to get paid.. ? covers, originals, doesn't matter.

[Ziphoblat]

If it's one or the other? Enjoyment; because the money most likely isn't worth the hassle if I'm not enjoying it. If it's both? Count me in.

[stingrayPete1977]

I don't see why it has to be so divided? Function band gig with a professional set up and performance then you get paid, originals band in the back room at the pub getting your creative juices flowing the next night you don't.I don't get paid for jamming at home.

[Dad3353]

We do it because we like playing together our choice of covers. 4-5 times a year we'll go out and play in front of folks, mainly charity gigs or our fan's garden parties and such, which keeps us focused on objectives, and encourages us to renew the set (slowly...). If it wasn't fun, we wouldn't do it. We don't have a 'rate'; if we get offered money that we really can't refuse, it's distributed or 'eaten up' with a restaurant for us, families and all.
I have been a pro drummer, and must admit to having accepted some really odd gigs for dough. I'm glad I'm not in that position any more. No regrets, but no pride in 'em, either. What price freedom, eh..?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1378639805' post='2202618']
I don't see why it has to be so divided? Function band gig with a professional set up and performance then you get paid, originals band in the back room at the pub getting your creative juices flowing the next night you don't.I don't get paid for jamming at home.
[/quote]

Time. I can't even commit to one band, let alone two.
I spend SO much time with people at work that I just can't take any more. I play at home to help to shut that out. When I've been in bands, I haven't found it to be particularly pleasurable business. Too many egos.
In the other hand, creating new music is great. And delivering a good performance- live, in a studio or in rehearsal is great, too.

When you add a financial aspect to it, especially if some members are dependent upon the income, it becomes a nightmare.

Enjoyment, then.
Except I don't enjoy it.