bigd1 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I don't see any question here, for me this is a no brainer. Music in whatever form has to be enjoyable first. I have been a musician for 35yrs and done it all for the pleasure and love of it, I don't think I could play/perform if it wasn't. Being paid is for me a very nice extra for doing something I love. Money was never the reason I become and continue to be a musician. Although Music has never been my primary income. If it was all about money, and nothing else, I'd have to have a change of career. How could you possibly put in you hart and soul into making a great performance, if the only reason you are there is collect your pay packet at the end. I am sure professional musicians never start out with money as their driving force. Definitely got to be for the LOVE and ENJOYMENT, if you get paid as I said for me it's a BONUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Things is, people know there is a labour of love element in it, so if you don't value yourself ...then don't be surprised if others don't tend to. I'd take it as an insult if anybody expected me to consider the money as a bonus..as if I am lucky to get it..?? Er.. No.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) [quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1378666374' post='2203017'] I don't see any question here, for me this is a no brainer. Music in whatever form has to be enjoyable first. I have been a musician for 35yrs and done it all for the pleasure and love of it, I don't think I could play/perform if it wasn't. Being paid is for me a very nice extra for doing something I love. Money was never the reason I become and continue to be a musician. Although Music has never been my primary income. If it was all about money, and nothing else, I'd have to have a change of career. How could you possibly put in you hart and soul into making a great performance, if the only reason you are there is collect your pay packet at the end. I am sure professional musicians never start out with money as their driving force. Definitely got to be for the LOVE and ENJOYMENT, if you get paid as I said for me it's a BONUS. [/quote] Exactly my thoughts. Chose something you love doing, do it well, find someone who appreciates what you do, get paid for it. The more you love something, the better you do it, the more people appreciate it, the more you get paid. Luckily I enjoy engineering a bit more than music. I do it better, more people need my skills and I get paid more. If push came to shove I'd get paid more as a musician than working in a warehouse, enjoy it more and be better at it. Edited September 8, 2013 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1378662627' post='2202940'] Time. I can't even commit to one band, let alone two. I spend SO much time with people at work that I just can't take any more. I play at home to help to shut that out. When I've been in bands, I haven't found it to be particularly pleasurable business. Too many egos. In the other hand, creating new music is great. And delivering a good performance- live, in a studio or in rehearsal is great, too. When you add a financial aspect to it, especially if some members are dependent upon the income, it becomes a nightmare. Enjoyment, then. Except I don't enjoy it. [/quote] Time is precious so if a band has made time to rehearse and give up their evening for a gig that's even more reason to pay them imo. I suppose it depends what the gig is, you can enjoy knocking out covers if the audience are enjoying it too, I'd play good gigs for free but a tough one can only be eased by cash for me It doesn't sound like you are into it on any level right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm in it for cash....... I'm lucky enough to have a couple of bands I play with that I really enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damonjames Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 To the OP, you should always play for the enjoyment. The irony is that if you do want to get paid, you need to be good. That take lots of HARD work and practice, which can some times be a bit of a chore. The band I am currently in was started just to do something "fun" but the fun part will be playing it live, so it a bit laborious at the moment. I don't see a problem with the two quotes you put up, neither one mentions money (although it could be inferred), but they both said thu want to play live. I can relate to this is a big way, I have been in 3 different bands in the last 18 months and not done a single gig yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticktock Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I play in a band because it's the most fun I can have without taking my clothes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Dick%20Venom%20Live/946934_574346589283833_1510514492_n_zps26871757.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1378545717' post='2201599'] Either, Niether or both , totally depends on your desires and situation [/quote] This. That is all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticktock Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 BigRedX... You too? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1378666733' post='2203024'] Things is, people know there is a labour of love element in it, so if you don't value yourself ...then don't be surprised if others don't tend to. [/quote] It's funny isn't it... even though most artists love what they do, nobody would expect an artist to give their art away for free. So why are musicians expected to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1378716555' post='2203460'] It's funny isn't it... even though most artists love what they do, nobody would expect an artist to give their art away for free. So why are musicians expected to do so? [/quote] ...but if an 'artist' decided to give his wares away for free, is that a bad thing..? An amateur gardener giving away excess produce, is that bad..? I don't think many are saying that musicians are [i]expected [/i]to play for free, but they're certainly entitled to, if that's their choice. If one doesn't want to perform free, it's easily settled: one asks to be paid. If that works, fine. What's the problem..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I had a big long debate with a guy on another forum who really has a big issue with what he calls "hobby musicians" ruining the market for proper professionals. I can sort of see what he means. Fees at venues, in times like these, are driven down by all kinds of factors - including those who play for a low fee because they either can or want to. He thinks it should be for the money. I ..... in a utopian way .... think it should be for the "art". Meaning, I think musicians should try to entertain the audience. I think there are too many artists or bands who seem to be doing it for themselves. I think bands should work hard on doing something that is unique or at least very, very good within their own genre, that is suited to the venue(s) they are playing. Then, if applied correctly, that should attract the right kind of fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1378720540' post='2203532'] I don't think many are saying that musicians are [i]expected [/i]to play for free, but they're certainly entitled to, if that's their choice. If one doesn't want to perform free, it's easily settled: one asks to be paid. If that works, fine. What's the problem..? [/quote] I never said there was a problem. I just think there is an expectation (among certain punters and venue owners) that because bands enjoy what they do, and the audience enjoy themselves, then the enjoyment alone should be enough and that asking to be paid is somehow crass. This is not a view I share, but I am aware of it's existence. Shame the venue owners don't get into the spirit of things by giving drinks away for free too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1378720540' post='2203532'] ...but if an 'artist' decided to give his wares away for free, is that a bad thing..? [/quote] No, of course it isn't - although fellow artists might have something to say about it as it puts a pressure on them to do the same. I know a few artists, and few of them would give anything away for nothing unless it was to friends or family, or unless it would somehow benefit them in the longer term. But then a lot of bands/musicians are like this too. How many of us would perform for free at a family party? And if we would, why is that perceived as different? It's an interesting subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) I think my thread is drifting into a debate about whether we should be paid or not. Maybe my wording might have been a bit misleading, but I started the topic to highlight the problem I am having as I try to put a new band together. A lot of the replies I've had to my ads, have been from people who are not interested in rehearsing, or getting to know the band that they might be joining. A lot of them are not even interested in the sort of music we want to play, they just want to be in a band that gigs every single weekend, and just turn up for the gigs. I'm not saying, or expecting any of them to play for nothing, of course not, but what I am expecting is that they genuinely like the type of music we play, and to put in some rehearsals to get tight enough to gig, if they are not prepared to do that, how can we possibly get to the standard we should be to get paid work, and if they are only joining a band for the money but not the music, then the chances are, they will leave once they get fed up of playing a genre they are not really into. As for gigs, we are actively seeking gigs for the future all the time, and once we know we are ready, we will get an agent as well, so it's not that we are just going to let things happen, we will make them happen! We are all good musicians, with plenty of experience behind us, but we still appreciate the need to rehearse especially for a new band. I think we are being sensible in learning to walk before we start running. This is nothing to do with being paid, or not being paid for gigs, it's more to do with people's attitudes. But as I stated earlier, maybe I'm old fashioned and naive to expect to form a band where we all have the same enthusiasm for the music, where we all understand that a little bit of time in the rehearsal studio, goes a long way in helping us go from being a "decent" band, to a "very good" band, and is it too much to hope that we can be mates as well! Edited September 9, 2013 by thebrig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1378716555' post='2203460'] It's funny isn't it... even though most artists love what they do, nobody would expect an artist to give their art away for free. So why are musicians expected to do so? [/quote] Speaking as someone who trained as an artist for 4 years, has tried to at least supplement my other income as an artist and as someone who knows several pro artists, people [i]very much[/i] expect artists to give their work away for free, or as near as. Anyone who thinks it's tough making money as a musician wants to try painting for a living. And no, I don't mean decorating. Or graphic design, which is something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If anyone ever suggested I [i]should[/i] play for free, I always come back with the fact that its only fair I 'break even' for time, effort and equiptment expenditure to be there. This usually works with bar manager types, because you can word this riposte in a very similar way to the expectations of, say, a tradesman that they might hire to fix some issue at the premises. At this point the conversation becomes more along the lines of what that cost to me actually is. Then I break down my costs, and my hourly fee (ie that of the entire band) and what the expected draw is for them, and the coup de grace is to point out I am offering them the special low low rate of [font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]<[/font][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]££££ [/font][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]insert what you wanted in the first place here ££££>[/font]. If you do this right you can tuly make them realise what asking you to play for peanuts actually means. Its never failed me yet... Of course these days I play for wanton pleasure of the One, so its a moot point, but like I said before, we've always managed to break even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Just another reminder folks, this is not about whether we play for free or for money, it was supposed to have been about the musicians who are not prepared to put the effort into making the band better, and are happy to join any band regardless of whether they like the music or band members, just to get gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1378545128' post='2201586'] The last band I was in I left, partiallly because the money became more important than the enjoyment to everyone else [/quote] Ditto, I've just recently put my notice in on my soul band as money is the only reason for its existence now, the fun has diminished and the personalities have become fragile to say the least. So much so that they ditched all 'fun' lower paid gigs in favour of constant wedding payers. Not for me im afraid, hence my moral departure. Back to some fun reggae times for now, despite being skint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If you want pro musicians in your band then they will be more interested in getting paid than a weekly social club, that's fine if a big part of it is doing it as a hobby but lots of players are playing in lots of bands to pay the bills and can cut the mustard live without Weeks, months or years of practice that some people want only to never gig in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Pro players want money first if you are only interested in telling them what to do. Give them creative input into a project they really like the idea of and their requirement for hard cash up front can diminish at a very rapid rate IME... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm not into joining [i]any [/i]band just to get gigs. I like to be well-rehearsed, know what I'm going to be doing and try to play to the best of my ability. I expect everyone else in the band to do the same and be available for a weekly rehearsal at least, unless we're gigging three times a week. And the band is likely to stay together long enough to be successful if everyone gets on. But on the other hand I'm not into rehearsal or gigging as a social event, or as an excuse for a piss-up or a toking session. I don't think I take it [i]too [/i]seriously either (it has to be fun), but there is a balance to be struck. Even if you're in an amateur band, there's no reason why you can't do things in a professional way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1378546001' post='2201603'] I play mainly for fun and for free in what was a trio and is now a 4 piece, which has given us a really good sound. The transition from 3 to 4 band members is more difficult than I imagined. All of a sudden it is harder to find a time when we can all practice and get together and play. That in means we want a decent amount of stage time when we meet up and larger gigs. This means need to spend money on gear and promotion. My point is that the larger the band the more dificult it is to ignore the money element. If we can get the balance right it will have fun and make money but its not an easy path to tread! [/quote] Spare a thought for me trying to herd the members of our 10-piece band who aer all in another 2 or bands each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) - Edited February 19, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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