tedmanzie Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 My kids have both been having music lessons - one has piano and drums (different teachers), the other has piano and recorder (same teacher). One child has been learning about 12 months, younger about 4 (they are both under 9 yrs). The teachers are very nice and fun, and we try to do it as an informal thing rather than a 'forced' thing. So both kids are working their way through the beginners books, learning fun songs, etc. We try to get them to do a few mins practice every day but it doesn't always happen. During the summer its kind of drifted of as we haven't been doing lessons but we are starting up again. Anyway... Neither of them seem to have really developed a desire for learning the instrument. They are doing ok and learning, but they don't want to practice or even want to make up their own stuff or thrash around (which i encourage). Now they are starting the 'I don't want to play piano anymore' moaning... I am not trying to hothouse the kids into the next Mozart, I would basically like them to learn to have [i]fun[/i] on an instrument but also learn how to play it properly and read music fluently. I didn't start playing till i was 20, and never learned theory or how to read music. How do you keep your kids interested?! How do you strike a balance between 'fun' and 'you must sit down and do 20 mins practice every day'?! How do you decide if it's really not for them or they are just being lazy because it's actually quite difficult?! Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Rather than learning the technical stuff (I think they are probably too young for that) I'd get them playing along to their favourite songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 [quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1378545234' post='2201591']...How do you keep your kids interested?!...[/quote] Good morning, Ted... The expression that comes to mind is... The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You mean well, and I applaud your motives, but it doesn't work that way. Give the kids any and all opportunity, and let them decide (yes, at all ages...) what they're 'going for'. No-one knows what their interests will be at 20, or 40, or 60. Don't deprive them, but offer as much as you can, step back and enjoy. Another of my 'leitmotifs', concerning kids... It's the first 40 years that are the worst, after which things get (slightly...) better. Bon courage, hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1378549547' post='2201679'] Good morning, Ted... The expression that comes to mind is... The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You mean well, and I applaud your motives, but it doesn't work that way. Give the kids any and all opportunity, and let them decide (yes, at all ages...) what they're 'going for'. No-one knows what their interests will be at 20, or 40, or 60. Don't deprive them, but offer as much as you can, step back and enjoy. Another of my 'leitmotifs', concerning kids... It's the first 40 years that are the worst, after which things get (slightly...) better. Bon courage, hope this helps. [/quote] This is essentially my approach, but I know from my own experience, and the kiddies' experience, that when things are hard (reading for example) that you have to keep at it, but find ways for them to enjoy it. Encouragement, praise, finding books they enjoy, doing it at the right time, reading [i]to[/i] them etc. I'd like to find a way to make it more fun. [b]chris_b[/b] you are right, they do like playing tunes they know, so maybe i need to talk to the teacher and get some new ideas. or find a new teacher with new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 [quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1378550748' post='2201688'] I'd like to find a way to make it more fun. [b]chris_b[/b] you are right, they do like playing tunes they know, so maybe i need to talk to the teacher and get some new ideas. or find a new teacher with new ideas. [/quote] New ideas or a new teacher [i]might [/i]work, but if the children decide that playing an instrument is not fun, then IMO it is not a good idea to push it too much. By all means encourage them. If they are interested enough they will persevere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Little miss WoT (7) is doing OK on the fiddle. Sometimes she wants to practice... sometimes she doesn't. She's only 7, so it's up to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 A good teacher end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Young master discreet is learning the piano and guitar... he's not that into them. If he became a great drummer that would be a lot more useful - to me - but he has expressed an interest in playing the bass. He plays left-handed too, so that complicates matters somewhat. If he spent as much time at the piano as he does playing 'Minecraft' on the computer, he'd be the next Mozart. I wouldn't worry about it. I was forced to do piano lessons when I was eight and really hated it. The fact that it was compulsory made me hate it even more. I gave up in the end. It wasn't until I was twelve or so that I picked up a guitar (along with some of my peers) and when I was fourteen started playing the bass. Let them make their own way and decide themselves if they want to play a musical instrument or not. I did, and look where it got me!! Ha, ha, ha!! Edited September 7, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 my daughter started on guitar aged 8 with boot feet unfortunately she lost interest after about a year and stopped practising i tried everything i could think of to get her playing again but failed. when she started secondary school however she was into it again big time she now plays guitar, bass and piano. she has always been quite competitive and i think seeing other kids who were better than she was spurred her on infact she only really picked up the bass to begin with because the school bands bass player had given her some cheek and she wanted to be better than him wish i had just started telling her she wasnt as good as the next kid when she was 8 would have saved me a lot of effort trying to get back into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 You don't - if they're interested then they're interested, but don't try & force your interest in music onto your kids; there's nothing worse than being forced to do something you have no interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Give 'em a good whippin' if they don't do at least a hour a day! Worked for me and I turned out alright. Now, where did I put me tablets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Good replies. With respect I think it's possibly an over simplification to say if they're interested they'll do it, if they won't they won't. While that is obviously true in many respects I think its really about [i]engaging[/i] the kids interest. I am not advocating forcing kids to learn something, that is never going to work, but enthusing them and growing their interest I certainly think is possible and is what a good or great teacher would do (in any subject). If they've had genuine fun for a decent period of time and still don't want to do it then fair enough. Taking the advice of [i]chris_b[/i] above (thanks!), I moved the keyboard into the same room as the hifi and we spent a fun hour or two playing along to 'Just Can't Get Enough' (Depeche Mode) and 'Autobahn' (kraftwerk) - which are two of Manzie Jnrs favourite 7"s. Autobahn proved a bit much (for me) but the kids were actually jostling each other to get to play the lead line of 'Can't get enough' (me on bass duties). So in a fun way we did a little bit of ear training, a bit of practice, and ended up with a performance for Ms Manzie in the afternoon! A day well spent. Perhaps we can keep it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1378562175' post='2201860'] You don't - if they're interested then they're interested, but don't try & force your interest in music onto your kids; there's nothing worse than being forced to do something you have no interest in. [/quote] this and also if they perceive the whole piano schtick as 'being cool and fun' because you like it then despite the informal setting that will put them off even more (kids/parents psychology 101) also mushers comment too above about peer pressure counts for a lot with kids that age - they are much more likely to be motivated if their friends are doing likewise and enjoying it Edited September 7, 2013 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 They both think Bill Evans, Michael Garrick and Bud Powell are sh*t (see rule 101) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) In the long term , it will be quite difficult to keep any young person that enthusiastic about playing the recorder . As an instrument , it has been on the wane in popular music for about the last 500 years , and I expect you will find it increasingly hard to keep your daughter committed to learning an instrument with such limited teen-appeal . That's not such a bad thing , though ; if you think about it , seeing as teenagers who are into playing the recorder are probably destined to end up in adult life like the kind of moth-eaten wrecks that present Time Team , lacking in social skills and lecturing at a former polytechnic . That said , I can see how a bit of recorder would work well in a Depeche Mode song , or a Dexy's Mdinight Runners number , during one of your family jam sessions . Edited September 8, 2013 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 superglue hands to instruments sorry mate - couldn't resist the teaser. Don't have kids myself so have no idea how to resolve this issue. I chose to take lessons when I was 15/16 and was totally my choice. Good luck tho. I think its well worth trying even if they decide not to keep at it later in their teens. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1378582160' post='2202185'] In the long term , it will be quite difficult to keep any young person that enthusiastic about playing the recorder . As an instrument , it has been on the wane in popular music for about the last 500 years , and I expect you will find it increasingly hard to keep your daughter committed to learning an instrument with such limited teen-appeal . That's not such a bad thing , though ; if you think about it , seeing as teenagers who are into playing the recorder are probably destined to end up in adult life like the kind of moth-eaten wrecks that present Time Team , lacking in social skills and lecturing at a former polytechnic . That said , I can see how a bit of recorder would work well in a Depeche Mode song , or a Dexy's Mdinight Runners number , during one of your family jam sessions . [/quote] Ha! Yes I have a deeply held loathing of the thing due to my own school experiences with it! I pretty much hated all musical instruments and all music in general until I was 16 (now I only hate 99% of all music). Recorder finger positions are similar/translatable to other wind instruments apparently, but its just a way to get into music really, I don't see a long term future! (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I remember when I first really got into music aged 11 and started to enjoy it more rather than as a background dim which it was before. Aged 13 I had decided I wanted to make my own music because I felt that passionate about it. I started to learn bass but after 6 months I nearly gave up - why? Because I had a crap teacher! He didn't inspire me at all and lessons were cancelled more and more because of some back problem he had. I contemplated just giving up because I felt after 6 months I had gotten no where. I was recommended a bass tutor out of school by my then current music teacher so went to see him and the rest is history. He really inspired me because of the way he played things that were so simple and within my grasp and you couldn't help but grin at because it was so damn funky. My parents told me after a few months that they couldn't afford to keep paying for lessons so, I got a paper round and payed for them myself. I think having a teacher who can inspire you and show you the cool, complicated things but saying you have to take baby steps before you can get there really helps. He definitely influenced my way of playing now - I listen to a lot of heavier music but for some reason my bass lines have hints of funk, salsa, reggae and bossa nova in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 From person experience, and this is for guitar, the answer for one of my daughters was Rocksmith. She has been playing it nearly every day through the summer holidays and has improved massively. Now she has gone back to school, her guitar teacher can correct any bad habits she may have picked up and work on the technical aspects. However, the oldest daughter........probably a teenager thing (and she isn't 13 yet!!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 This is an interesting topic. My 11 year old son showed an interest in the drums this year and I managed to borrow a kit for him. Next thing I know he's learning all the drum parts to the Everything Everyhing records. The school also offers lessons which is handy. Before that I tried to interest him in guitar and bass obviously (as we have those around) but he told me in no uncertain terms to stop bothering him and that he wasn't interested and I should butt the hell out of it. It's difficult to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Oh yeah, I would say By The Way (album and song) was a big reason I chose to play bass. I think youngsters exposed to anything at an early age which gets them excited will try and further that experience... hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1378555905' post='2201772'] I wouldn't worry about it. I was forced to do piano lessons when I was eight and really hated it. The fact that it was compulsory made me hate it even more. I gave up in the end. It wasn't until I was twelve or so that I picked up a guitar (along with some of my peers) and when I was fourteen started playing the bass. Let them make their own way and decide themselves if they want to play a musical instrument or not. I did, and look where it got me!! Ha, ha, ha!! [/quote] Similar story here. Started piano lessons at 7, didn't pracitice (but loved the theory). Stopped piano lessons at 7 :-) What frustrates me is that is that ras52 jr is super-creative, and will make up IMO really catchy song fragments, but doesn't yet have the discipline to work on them, or to learn an instrument enough to realise them. All in time, when the pupil is ready, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1378738183' post='2203950'] All in time, when the pupil is ready, etc... [/quote] Or you could send him to Japan for 24/7 hothousing, instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Different instruments have different cultures, don't they? Violins, cellos and flutes and other orchestral instruments are usually introduced to the child by the parent. The parent then anxiously frets and worries about finding a decent academic teacher in the same way they worried about finding a good school. An involment with Guitars and drums tend to be prompted by a more complex peer group/ social situation, not by parents...unless you've got a modern, guardian reading parent that insists on taking the whole family to Glastonbury every year. The cult of amateurism is preserved and you get Scouting for Girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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