IMO

[Hutton]

I'm getting fed up with folk passing sweeping statements and not stating that it is merely their opinion. An early 80s P bass for instance is for sale at the moment. It is made by an excellent maker and is no doubt a superb bass. However, is it really necessary to add that it is better than USA Fenders of the same era. I have two early 80s P basses and they are both fantastic basses. I'm not saying that they are any better or worse than any other P bass of the early 80s but to claim that the 80s bass for sale is far better is ridiculous. It is misleading to say so in the for sale forum without stating that it is the posters opinion. I don't want to clutter the post which is trying to sell the bass by making my point. This is not another Fender verses the rest post. It just happens that the P bass for sale post is the example I'm using. By all manner of means compliment a bass to help the sale but don't say it's better than something else. The next post down may be trying to sell the very bass that is being denigrated. It's not difficult to add IMO! This, of course, is only my opinion. Rant over.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Hutton

[wateroftyne]

I know exactly what you mean. There's too much opinion posted as fact.

[Fat Rich]

Every post on any forum is mostly opinion.

IMO.

[Toasted]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1378888689' post='2205946']
I know exactly what you mean. There's too much opinion posted as fact.
[/quote]

[wateroftyne]

IMO :-D

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1378888511' post='2205941']
I'm getting fed up with folk passing sweeping statements and not stating that it is merely their opinion. An early 80s P bass for instance is for sale at the moment. It is made by an excellent maker and is no doubt a superb bass. However, is it really necessary to add that it is better than USA Fenders of the same era. I have two early 80s P basses and they are both fantastic basses. I'm not saying that they are any better or worse than any other P bass of the early 80s but to claim that the 80s bass for sale is far better is ridiculous. It is misleading to say so in the for sale forum without stating that it is the posters opinion. I don't want to clutter the post which is trying to sell the bass by making my point. This is not another Fender verses the rest post. It just happens that the P bass for sale post is the example I'm using. By all manner of means compliment a bass to help the sale but don't say it's better than something else. The next post down may be trying to sell the very bass that is being denigrated. It's not difficult to add IMO! Rant over.
[/quote]

Chill man. I may play your basses and think that they are the worst thing ever... or maybe the best thing ever. That's the thing about opinions...

And have you also noticed that everybody that sells a bass proclaims such a thing? "Best bass I've ever played... etc"

[Coilte]

Forums are there for people to express their opinions. Therefore I would have thought
that any statement therein would be an opinion, without the person having to actually say so.

It is up to the buyer to take all opinions into account, then armed with these, to make
an educated choice as to whether to buy or not. Most will try before they buy anyway.


With film, theatre, and music critics we accept that what they write is their opinion.

Why can't we do the same with forum posters ?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Coilte

[RhysP]

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1378888511' post='2205941']
A: I'm getting fed up with folk passing sweeping statements and not stating that it is merely their opinion.
[/quote]

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1378888511' post='2205941']
B: An early 80s P bass for instance is for sale at the moment. It is made by an excellent maker and is no doubt a superb bass.
[/quote]

Anybody else spot the contradiction between quote A & quote B?

[Coilte]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1378892326' post='2206035']
Anybody else spot the contradiction between quote A & quote B?
[/quote]

Well spotted.


OP, are we to assume that this is your opinion, as you did not say so ?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1378892530' post='2206041']
Well spotted.
[/quote]

A proven fact, or just your opinion..?

[Coilte]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1378892530' post='2206041']
Well spotted. [i]IMO[/i]
[/quote]


There...fixed it.

[Dad3353]

[sup] [/sup]

[paul h]

My opinion IS fact.

Deal with it.

[Bilbo]

The argument over fact vs opinion is an interesting one and it is surprisingly hard to find fact when discussing music, basses, amps etc. Kind of Blue was recorded in 1959 - fact. Kind of Blue is the biggest selling Jazz lp of all time (dubious fact - define Jazz). Kind of Blue is the greatest LP of all time - opinion.

[karlfer]

Sorry Hutton, I can't say IMO. My wife doesn't allow me opinions . (You are right though, I hope I try to avoid saying such things but I bet I cock up)

[ras52]

Yes, most forum posting is implicitly opinion, but I think the OP's point (with which I agree) is that when it comes to selling, there needs to be a clear delineation between fact and opinion.

[TimR]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1378894551' post='2206093']
The argument over fact vs opinion is an interesting one and it is surprisingly hard to find fact when discussing music, basses, amps etc. Kind of Blue was recorded in 1959 - fact. Kind of Blue is the biggest selling Jazz lp of all time (dubious fact - define Jazz). Kind of Blue is the greatest LP of all time - opinion.
[/quote]

It's up to the reader to decide whether they are reading fact or opinion.

There are however exceptions. Mainly when talking about theories that can't be backed by evidence or the evidence is ambiguous. Political and scientific fields are full of this.

That's the difference between a discussion forum and a lecture theatre.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1378891910' post='2206025']
With film, theatre, and music critics we accept that what they write is their opinion.

Why can't we do the same with forum posters ?
[/quote]

Because forums are living, breathing, real time gatherings of people. Because people take things personally, for better or for worse. Because the opinions are presented and written as if they are facts, often in a sanctimonious, overbearing, arrogant and holier-than-thou kind of way by people who I'm willing to bet are actually in no position to speak authoritatively about the subject matter outside their own little world, with little consideration given to the thoughts, opinions and feelings of others.

I'm not saying I'm blameless either.

[Norris]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1378894715' post='2206099']
Sorry Hutton, I can't say IMO. My wife doesn't allow me opinions . (You are right though, I hope I try to avoid saying such things but I bet I cock up)
[/quote]
In that case ... IMWO

[4000]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1378897153' post='2206141']
Because forums are living, breathing, real time gatherings of people. Because people take things personally, for better or for worse. Because the opinions are presented and written as if they are facts, often in a sanctimonious, overbearing, arrogant and holier-than-thou kind of way by people who I'm willing to bet are actually in no position to speak authoritatively about the subject matter outside their own little world, with little consideration given to the thoughts, opinions and feelings of others.

I'm not saying I'm blameless either.
[/quote]

+1.

And because opinion stated as fact can be taken on board as fact by people who have less knowledge or experience.

[RhysP]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1378895621' post='2206111']
..... I think the OP's point (with which I agree) is that when it comes to selling, there needs to be a clear delineation between fact and opinion.
[/quote]

But making that point with nothing more than an opinion of his own tends to defeat his own argument, no?

[Coilte]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1378897153' post='2206141']
Because forums are living, breathing, real time gatherings of people. Because people take things personally, for better or for worse. Because the opinions are presented and written as if they are facts, often in a sanctimonious, overbearing, arrogant and holier-than-thou kind of way by people who I'm willing to bet are actually in no position to speak authoritatively about the subject matter outside their own little world, with little consideration given to the thoughts, opinions and feelings of others.

I'm not saying I'm blameless either.
[/quote]


What you say is true, but I think it is a case of "dont shoot the messenger."


As generally agreed, they are for expressing opinions. How those opinions are expresed, and
how valid they are, we have no controll over (except in severe cases when a Moderator feels
it necessary to step in). If people cant accept this, that is not the fault of forums.

If people who use forums are inclined to feel as you describe, then perhaps forums are not for them.

Internet forums, being the nature of the beast that they are, can be elightening, helpful, frustrating,
humiliating etc. Users have to be able and prepared to take the good with the bad, and to take "facts"
with a pinch of salt.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Coilte

[TimR]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1378897153' post='2206141']


...often in a sanctimonious, overbearing, arrogant and holier-than-thou kind of way

...
I'm not saying I'm blameless either.
[/quote]

I wouldn't have thought it was possible to write in that manner, just speak that way and most of that is imagined by the reader. Hence arguments start very easily.

[Lozz196]

I`ve commented on posts with things such as "the best bass I`ve ever played" if it was in fact [u][b]that[/b][/u] bass.

Other than that, someone making a general statement such as "all the 80s Precisions I`ve played have been great" is opinion but it`s based on their own experience. However stating "all 80s Precisions are great" would be a bit daft.

[EMG456]

It's an advert, trying to sell something - I would expect some kind of enthusiastic hyperbole. The bass is not going to attract a buyer if it's described as "absolutely average" or "the worst bass I've ever owned"

Like all sales speels, treat with a pinch of salt.

On the other hand, I do always wonder about the "best bass I've ever owned" ones. If that's really true, why would you be selling it?

Ed