dmccombe7 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I see Mark at Bass Direct is selling the TC Electronic Blacksmith 1600W amp at under £1000. Almost half price. Seems like a good deal. Anyone have one or used them ?? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W11ATO Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Mark King and Nathan East seem to like them so I imagine they're pretty good :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 Pretty sure Roger Glover was endorsing them and when I saw DP last year he had a TC stack on stage but he also had another stack which was covered and the shape of the speaker cover looked very like an Ampeg 8x10 so makes you wonder what he was actually using live. I'll have a look on you tube for Nathan East who is a very rated bassist with many styles. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Bassist that I replaced in my band has one (bought at full price) and is so impressed he has gone back and bought one in this sale as a back-up; he's a BCer so he may well chip in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 What sort of gigs would require a 1600W rig? After a certain size, wouldn't everything go through the PA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1379158681' post='2209242'] What sort of gigs would require a 1600W rig? After a certain size, wouldn't everything go through the PA? [/quote] Is it even going to be 1600 watts, past experience will dictate it to be probably less than a 1k if that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I don't think it's [i]really[/i] 1600w. [url="http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/914735/tc_electronic_bass_amp_power_rating___active_power_management.pdf"]http://www.tcelectro..._management.pdf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 OK, it might not be 1600 'real' watts, but my basic question stands - what's the typical maximum power that anyone really needs? I don't really know if such high powers are really necessary because I've always understood that the real purpose of the on-stage rig is mainly to do with getting the desired sound and being loud enough for the bassist to hear. After that, any further volume requirements and monitoring for the other band members would be handled by the PA system. But having never played a large stage/arena I could be mistaken, hence the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 That`s it - so long as the volume, and the spread of the sound are loud enough, out front is handled by the PA so mega-power not really needed. I played a festival last week with a Hartke HA2500 into a Hartke 410 & 115. We always have just vox in our monitors as it`s easier for the sound-guys, and I had plenty of on-stage volume with that set-up of 250 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I have a 550w amp and regardless of situation I am never pushing it very hard but it is also dependent upon speaker sensitivity (mine are pretty good). Can't imagine a situation where I'd need more power but then again I'd be having words with band members/sound guy if I was having to use more volume on stage/FOH than I am at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Headroom! Masses of headroom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1379162837' post='2209312'] Headroom! Masses of headroom! [/quote] Not with the Blacksmith...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1379162837' post='2209312'] Headroom! Masses of headroom! [/quote] I can understand that to an extent, but where's the point at which 'massess of headroom' (i.e. unused potential power) just becomes a pointless waste of money, not to mention chronic back pain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1379163204' post='2209320'] I can understand that to an extent, but where's the point at which 'massess of headroom' (i.e. unused potential power) just becomes a pointless waste of money, not to mention chronic back pain? [/quote] Oh, I don't know. I like big amps because you can have effortless undistorted, clean chunky power at higher levels. Should you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 I'm looking at the GK 2001RB but its to allow me to use my Berg HT322 at 4ohm and has a nice low end sound and my Berg AE112 cab at 8ohm which gives me a nice mid to top end. At 500W each channel it gives me the overall sound I like. The amp has a balance control to allow me to trade each cab of each other for a clearer range. More than likely a change of cabs to GK which would match the smaller 1000RB amp might give me something that suits but I do love the clarity of my Berg cabs plus I have the ability to use seperatae cabs depending on what i'm doing. Don't or won't need 1000W in any gig i'll do but the larger amp gives more options. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1379166418' post='2209361'] Oh, I don't know. I like big amps because you can have effortless undistorted, clean chunky power at higher levels. Should you need it. [/quote] I understand the basic idea, I'm just trying to understand WHEN you would need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1379168074' post='2209406'] I understand the basic idea, I'm just trying to understand WHEN you would need it. [/quote] Here, perhaps..? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY2dMoK7G5Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY2dMoK7G5Y[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Now that would be a fun gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) I've not tried the Blacksmith but it looks great. They're hand built in Demark too. I've got the RH750 which is the same to an extent, less power and made in Thailand. The sound of it truly is brilliant, an insane amount of power too. Edited September 14, 2013 by risingson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1379159210' post='2209250'] I don't think it's [i]really[/i] 1600w. [url="http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/914735/tc_electronic_bass_amp_power_rating___active_power_management.pdf"]http://www.tcelectro..._management.pdf[/url] [/quote] That made for some interesting reading - thanks wateroftyne. Always amazes me how mfr twist their statements to make their gear look better than it sometimes is. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1379452833' post='2212972'] That made for some interesting reading - thanks wateroftyne. Always amazes me how mfr twist their statements to make their gear look better than it sometimes is. Cheers Dave [/quote] TC stretch their statistics concerning wattage but I've actually never encountered a problem being heard with my RH750 head. I don't really understand these things too well either but it's as much about the assumption by others that watts = overall level as well as TC pulling the wool over the eyes a bit. TC stuff is largely complete quality in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Nah TC say and sell it as n watts, when it isnt, its g watts run through a multiband limiter/(other assorted shenanigans) rather like a simple digital mastering cover all solution, in order to get a higher average level to peak ratio (think radio station broadcast limiter). The amp runs harder than a real n watt amp to achieve the same level as an n watt amp (by which I mean in achieving that same level the amp is running closer to its theoretical maximum more of the time - just look at the graphs in the pdf). Which may or may not worry you. It also means the transients are very definitely curtailed, and that is something you may be able to feel. I can honestly say the TC stack sounds really loud, possibly louder than my rig in fact, but I prefer the sound and feel of my rig (I had a day with my rig sat next to Charics - IIRC - at a previous bass bash, so this is a personal subjective impression of the two rigs suide by side for an extended period of time). I have no problem with that approach from an engineering point of view, if they said thats what they did, but in their initial push to market (anyone remember their bass 2.0 ads?) they kept this all very quiet. Any kind of limiting or compression is a form of distortion of the signal, and to claim they have 500, 1000, 1700 watts of [i]clean[/i] usable power is frankly a lie. Whether this is a negative thing is entirely up to you of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I prefer to judge an amp by the way it sounds and the features it has, rather than some arbitrary value like its (supposed or otherwise) power output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1379495155' post='2213238'] It also means the transients are very definitely curtailed, and that is something you may be able to feel. I can honestly say the TC stack sounds really loud, possibly louder than my rig in fact. [/quote] This was the problem I had with it. It was [i]loud[/i], but then so is my 7-year-old daughter. It was a dynamic wasteland. [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1379495426' post='2213245'] I prefer to judge an amp by the way it sounds and the features it has, rather than some arbitrary value like its (supposed or otherwise) power output. [/quote] That's the right way to do it of course, but IMO there is question around whether it's reasonable to advertise it as such, without being open about how the figure is arrived at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1379495869' post='2213256'] IMO there is question around whether it's reasonable to advertise it as such, without being open about how the figure is arrived at. [/quote] Yeah, I see that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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