Being the one who says "no" to gigs.

[Grangur]

Tell them they'll need to get a dep to cover the Christmas gig. Let them see how hard it is to find a player who actually wants the gig. They'll also notice how vans do cost money and drivers are needed.

Also, if they won't have a meeting it does raise the question; "what issues do they know of that they DON'T want to face up to?"

Good luck

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379239082' post='2210059']
Tell them they'll need to get a dep to cover the Christmas gig. Let them see how hard it is to find a player who actually wants the gig. They'll also notice how vans do cost money and drivers are needed.

Also, if they won't have a meeting it does raise the question; "what issues do they know of that they DON'T want to face up to?"

Good luck
[/quote]
We've already had that conversation and agreed not to accept the gig, so no worries there. The thread is more about me being surprised that we needed to have that conversation at all, since if it had been me opening the email from the promoter, they'd have got a polite no straight off the bat.

[JTUK]

Instead of saying no, just send them a nice cordial reply stating what you'll work for.
If they want you, they'll need to talk about 'things'

Your problem will then be, there is always a free band... oh well..!!

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1379111295' post='2208930']
This must be a common issue! In one of my bands, the member who does most of the gig bookings is not very good at saying no to gig offers. We've had a couple of gigs in the past where we've been left out of pocket, playing to oblivious audiences and wondering why we bothered. Currently I'm trying to explain to the band why I'm not keen on doing an out-of-town charity gig in between Christmas and New Year, where I'll have to rent a vehicle to shift our gear (I'm the only driver) and the promoter is offering "as little as possible" in payment. We do still get plenty of gigs which feel worth doing, but I feel like we could be more selective.
Any tips on getting my viewpoint across without seeming like a grumpy b@stard?
[/quote]
It is a common issue. Stick to your guns and be assertive.....i.e. be calm, controlled, measured, put your point across and stick to your guns despite any histrionics or other types of leverage from your band mates.

In this way you are true to yourself, do not compromise on your beliefs and avoid coming across as grumpy or angry etc.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1379247785' post='2210211']
Instead of saying no, just send them a nice cordial reply stating what you'll work for.
[/quote]

and

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1379252396' post='2210327']
be calm, controlled, measured, put your point across and stick to your guns despite any histrionics or other types of leverage
[/quote]


Words from the Wise

[Norris]

We have a minimum fee, and if the venue won't pay us that much we simply won't take the gig. There are far too many bands going out for next to nothing 'for the fun of it', but it usually takes the venue some time to realise that they have ended up with a load of rubbish bands, that don't pull in the punters, and therefore don't ever raise enough extra revenue to justify paying a band.

Charity gigs are slightly different, and need to be agreed by the whole band. However, you still need to pick and choose which ones you do - and learn to say no. Otherwise you'll end up being asked to play at every one going. Everybody (usually) likes to do their bit for charity, but in the most lucrative Xmas period that is asking a lot. In any case, unless the cause is particularly dear to your heart you should not be out of pocket.

[randythoades]

I have to say, I don't think it wrong to say no to gigs. I have tended to be the one who always declines and it leads to arguments within the band but I think you need to stand your ground. For me personally, I can't see the point of lugging all my gear for an hour or so to play a crummy pub for £20 between you and to play to 3 men and a dog.
I would prefer to just have a rehearsal and enjoy what I play. Some of the others I have played with just like the buzz of gigging, and I fully appreciate that, but now I am straight with people right off the bat. I don't mind charity gigs or gigs for friends etc but unless it is worthwhile I think it a waste of time. You spend all that time setting up, playing, breaking it down for nothing.
To be fair, I haven't played any "proper" venues or that many gigs, just pubs and clubs so some of the other comments are spot on and I am sure to get shot down. If you are guaranteed a crowd then what the hell, it'll be a good time. If you get to cover costs too or even make a profit, it's a bonus. But just gigging for the sake of it seems pointless to me.

[discreet]

[quote name='randythoades' timestamp='1380213890' post='2222443']
...just gigging for the sake of it seems pointless to me.
[/quote]

Me too. Pointless and demoralising. Unless you regard it as a cheap rehearsal. ...Nah, not even then.

[flyfisher]

Doesn't anyone here just enjoy playing for the enjoyment of it? mercenary lot!

[Marvin]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380217296' post='2222492']
Doesn't anyone here just enjoy playing for the enjoyment of it? mercenary lot!
[/quote]

Not when/if someone else is making a profit out of it.

The singer and I, in my current band, have taken the view that, given our current experience, we're not going to do any freebies from now on.

[Len_derby]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380217296' post='2222492']
Doesn't anyone here just enjoy playing for the enjoyment of it?
[/quote]

Guilty as charged M'lud. I don't mind playing to one man and his dog. If it's a cute dog, even better.

I think of playing in public the same way as I do about job applications/interviews.
If you don't do it regularly, when something comes along that you really want you're not sharp enough to do yourself justice.

[JTUK]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380217296' post='2222492']
Doesn't anyone here just enjoy playing for the enjoyment of it? mercenary lot!
[/quote]

There has to be something in it... big kudos, big money big enjoyment, but free pubs/venues, free beer festivals are no-go's.. for sure

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1380217661' post='2222498']
Not when/if someone else is making a profit out of it.
[/quote]

Somebody else is making a profit everytime you buy a bass or an amp or a cab or pretty much anything really. Same as somebody else makes a profit if you buy a camera but I've never heard amateur photographers saying they won't take a picture unless someone pays them for it.

There seems to be something about music that many people believe they must be paid or they won't play. It's a point of view, I suppose, but I'm interested in why music should be so unique in this respect?

[JTUK]

Don't know if it is unique or not, it is just that I have done enough gigs and they aren't the be-all and end-all for me.
It has to be more than just a gig... as it is a lot of hassle.
Even a pub gig is 4-5 hrs of our time so we are now picky about which pubs....so not enough room, wrong audience, not enough money, too far, bad load-in
are all reasonable excuses..

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380217296' post='2222492']
Doesn't anyone here just enjoy playing for the enjoyment of it? mercenary lot!
[/quote]

Yes, most of us do. I just can't afford to run at a loss, it's that simple.

[Marvin]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380222179' post='2222591']
Somebody else is making a profit everytime you buy a bass or an amp or a cab or pretty much anything really. Same as somebody else makes a profit if you buy a camera but I've never heard amateur photographers saying they won't take a picture unless someone pays them for it.

There seems to be something about music that many people believe they must be paid or they won't play. It's a point of view, I suppose, but I'm interested in why music should be so unique in this respect?
[/quote]

The companies I buy equipment from make a profit at the point of sale. They make no further profit if I play live or leave the stuff in a cupboard.

I can't say what amateur photographers views are. However, if I was displaying my work in public and somebody else was making money out of it, I'd either want to be paid or I'd stop displaying my work.

[bonzodog]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380222179' post='2222591']
Somebody else is making a profit everytime you buy a bass or an amp or a cab or pretty much anything really. Same as somebody else makes a profit if you buy a camera but I've never heard amateur photographers saying they won't take a picture unless someone pays them for it.

There seems to be something about music that many people believe they must be paid or they won't play. It's a point of view, I suppose, but I'm interested in why music should be so unique in this respect?
[/quote][quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380222179' post='2222591']
Somebody else is making a profit everytime you buy a bass or an amp or a cab or pretty much anything really. Same as somebody else makes a profit if you buy a camera but I've never heard amateur photographers saying they won't take a picture unless someone pays them for it.

There seems to be something about music that many people believe they must be paid or they won't play. It's a point of view, I suppose, but I'm interested in why music should be so unique in this respect?
[/quote]

Music is a form of entertainment meaning that its for other peoples enjoyment as well as the provider. No a photographer wouldn't charge to take photos, but he would possibly charge if one of his or her photos was in a gallery where people were paying to visit. You are right that music is unique in this respect but on the other hand isn't it amazing that we do something we enjoy and can make money from it too.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1380222532' post='2222600']
Don't know if it is unique or not, it is just that [b]I have done enough gigs and they aren't the be-all and end-all for me.[/b]
It has to be more than just a gig... as it is a lot of hassle.
Even a pub gig is 4-5 hrs of our time so we are now picky about which pubs....so not enough room, wrong audience, not enough money, too far, bad load-in
are all reasonable excuses..
[/quote]
I can understand that, but if it was me then I think I'd just give up gigging at that stage. We have turned down gigs for some of the reasons you mention, except the money one.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1380227019' post='2222650']
Music is a form of entertainment meaning that its for other peoples enjoyment as well as the provider. No a photographer wouldn't charge to take photos, but he would possibly charge if one of his or her photos was in a gallery where people were paying to visit. You are right that music is unique in this respect but on the other hand isn't it amazing that we do something we enjoy and can make money from it too.
[/quote]

I'm beginning to think I'm a soft touch. I've had a couple of photos published in a book that a friend wrote, but I didn't charge him for them and was happy with just an acknowledgement. I've also provided photos for other publicity purposes, though some of those were for a charity so that probably doesn't count. I must learn to become more mercenary!

Hey, I wonder if we could start charging BC for the benefit of our posts - without us it wouldn't exist!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1380224894' post='2222621']
Yes, most of us do. I just can't afford to run at a loss, it's that simple.
[/quote]

Fair point if you're a professional musician but otherwise don't we run all of our hobbies and interests at a 'loss'?

It's beginning to look like some musicians won't get out of bed unless they're being paid for it.

[discreet]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380227784' post='2222658']
Hey, I wonder if we could start charging BC for the benefit of our posts - without us it wouldn't exist!
[/quote]

You mean you aren't being paid for your contribution?

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380228090' post='2222665']
Fair point if you're a professional musician but otherwise don't we run all of our hobbies and interests at a 'loss'?
[/quote]

Probably the vast majority, not quite all. Music was a hobby that did run at a loss, then as my wife gave up work to start a family that hobby then gradually changed to something self-sustaining. I guess I'm a true semi-pro in that sense, so apart from the occasional good cause, I won't get out of bed unless being paid . (I'm playing [i]next[/i] weekend for free BTW, and at the end of the month).

[martin8708]

As my day job can grind me down , the chance to lift myself out of the mundane for a couple of hours is quite appealing .
Some gigs can be pretty dire , but I just like playing in a band ( even after 30 years ) so I am happy to play when and where .
Some gigs don't turn a huge profit , but it's cheaper than playing golf .

However , Christmas Eve and the wife's birthday are still out of bounds .

[witterth]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380228090' post='2222665']
It's beginning to look like some musicians won't get out of bed unless they're being paid for it.
[/quote] a few of the musicians I know wont get out of bed...... no, that's it, they wont get out of bed, that is all.

Edited September 26, 2013 by witterth

[discreet]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1380230149' post='2222698']
...a lot of the musicians I know wont get out of bed... no, that's it, they wont get out of bed, that is all.
[/quote]

[size=4] [/size]