What Comes Naturally To You? What Doesn't?

[Lowender]

Inspired by Bilbo's post.

You would think you get good at what you like and lag at things that you don't like. But I like a lot of things and want to do them well yet some stuff (not necessarly the "more difficult" things) just doesn't come naturally.

Oddly enough, I started on drums and jazz came to me , right from the start. Rock too. But although I really worked on my funk playing, and got decent at it, I never really OWNED it.

When I switched to bass, the funk came flowing right out of the gate. But jazz...it's okaaaay, but I have to work at it to start living in that zone.

And my reading sucks at both. And yes, I've practice it a ton. I'm just a functional reader and assume I always will be.

EVERYONE has their shortcomings. Chris Squire s a genius and he can't solo worth a damn. Louis Johnson is a genius but I don't think he'd fit in Led Zeppelin. Jeff Berlin is a genius but he doesn't play fretless. Anthony Jackson is a genius and he can't slap.

So...what eludes you? And what is in your back pocket? And do you know why?

Edited September 14, 2013 by Lowender

[JTUK]

There is natural and natural, IMO.
I've worked hard at stuff and am pretty happy about where I am... but once
in a while, you just know you are totally outclassed by someone
and then you are just happy enough to be able to stay with them..

[bubinga5]

what is outclassed JTUK.? there is no better, there is just opinion. [size=4] [/size]

Edited September 14, 2013 by bubinga5

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1379118376' post='2208986']
what is outclassed JTUK.? there is no better, there is just opinion.
[/quote]

You could be of the opinion that Pete Wentz isn't outclassed by Tony Levin (random example, I know) but then you'd be beating around one hell of a bush. Music is subjective of course, but I think there are situations where it's blatantly obvious that somebody is just a more experienced/expressive player.

[JTUK]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1379118376' post='2208986']
what is outclassed JTUK.? there is no better, there is just opinion.
[/quote]

B5. as much as I liked to agree, there are players out there ..and this guy was one, who really had 'IT;
He has a very decent CV and he was playing some things that drummers I've come across just can't even contemplate.
I would say that I know about drummers, IMV, and have played with guys that are no slouches at all... but this guy was
miles ahead. Feel, groove, chops...etc etc.
You get guys with a pro CV and names under their belt and then you go to another level of player.
I believe this guy was one of them.

Most fun on a gig I've had for ages...... his contempories are still doing the TOP gigs but this guy isn't..and that is such a shame and a waste.

[Coilte]

Having a natural talent is generally just the rough diamond. This has to be cleaned, polished and shaped by years of practice and hard work. Any of the bassists whom we consider to be at the top of their class, despite their natural talent, were not like this from the moment they picked up a bass.

[the boy]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1379141204' post='2209038']
.... his contempories are still doing the TOP gigs but this guy isn't..and that is such a shame and a waste.
[/quote]
You've all heard the expression 'recipe for success'........ Well that's exactly what it is. A recipe. Success is like baking a cake. Talent is only one ingredient. Without the other ingredients the cake will never rise. The world is full of unsuccessful guys with talent to spare. It takes a lot of hard work.
Back on topic: I can't slap bass. In fact I can't play bass very well at all. I'm trying though. And I'm constantly improving. People tell me I can play well, but they are usually people who can't play at all. Lol.

[JTUK]

But the word 'contempories' suggests that he was successful.
Probably amongst the first calls of that time... depending on who you talk to

[scalpy]

Most at home playing Soul or Rock. When I try to slap it feels like I'm committing GBH. I imagine, I hasten to add.

[Lozz196]

Hitting hard and aggressive is natural, hanging back and playing melodically is something I`ve really had to work at. As is playing fingerstyle, a pick is far more my natural style.

[Lowender]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1379142026' post='2209044']
Having a natural talent is generally just the rough diamond. This has to be cleaned, polished and shaped by years of practice and hard work. Any of the bassists whom we consider to be at the top of their class, despite their natural talent, were not like this from the moment they picked up a bass.
[/quote]

Not really. Some guys take to an instrument or a style very quickly. The moment I picked up a bass I got a better sound than the bass player in my band. I couldn't play much but SOMETHING was there. Meanwhile, I've heard that flute was easy to play but after practicing for several weeks I could barely get a sound out of it.
Everyone has their natural talents and natural shortcomings.

[Graham]

I suck at solos and improvising on the spot - I'd rather take some time on my own to work out a line, so when the band leader calls out un-expectedely for a bass solo it's squeaky bum time.

I also suck at slapping, I tried to do some a few times in a guitar shop recently and it just sounded like a type-writer falling down stairs.

Conversley, I can find a groove with a drummer quickly and lock in with them so it sounds tight - probably from the years of playing in metal bands.

Also, my ear has developed well over the years so I find I can work things out quickly so I'd say those are the things that come quickly to me

[JTUK]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1379173290' post='2209491']
Not really. Some guys take to an instrument or a style very quickly. The moment I picked up a bass I got a better sound than the bass player in my band. I couldn't play much but SOMETHING was there. Meanwhile, I've heard that flute was easy to play but after practicing for several weeks I could barely get a sound out of it.
Everyone has their natural talents and natural shortcomings.
[/quote]
Agree.
I believe natural aptitude is one thing but some guys really get to a good level pretty quickly because they have something else.
Hard work will get you quite a way but there is a limit to what it can achieve.

To think it can trump natural talent is wrong and to make the most of things you need both.
The best guys have the talent AND the dedication..

[Lozz196]

Agreed JT, I`ve been playing guitar for only a year less than bass (1982 as oppose to 1981) yet to any musician it`s clear (unless they`re deaf) that I`m a bassist who can get by on guitar. I`ve a more natural aptitude for the bass, to the point that even before I knew what a bass was, the bassline was what I listened for in songs - I blame Seasons In The Sun by Terry Jacks for this, btw.

[JTUK]

ha ha Lozz... I'd keep that reference quiet if I were you.

I have no interest in gtr at all.... but I heard the bass first which is why I picked it.
I also think I would have been able to play decent piano and drums... but these are life long
journeys (IMO) so I leave them...

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1379113446' post='2208954']
Inspired by Bilbo's post.

You would think you get good at what you like and lag at things that you don't like. But I like a lot of things and want to do them well yet some stuff (not necessarly the "more difficult" things) just doesn't come naturally.

Oddly enough, I started on drums and jazz came to me , right from the start. Rock too. But although I really worked on my funk playing, and got decent at it, I never really OWNED it.

When I switched to bass, the funk came flowing right out of the gate. But jazz...it's okaaaay, but I have to work at it to start living in that zone.

And my reading sucks at both. And yes, I've practice it a ton. I'm just a functional reader and assume I always will be.

EVERYONE has their shortcomings. Chris Squire s a genius and he can't solo worth a damn. Louis Johnson is a genius but I don't think he'd fit in Led Zeppelin. Jeff Berlin is a genius but he doesn't play fretless. Anthony Jackson is a genius and he can't slap.

So...what eludes you? And what is in your back pocket? And do you know why?
[/quote]
Nothing that I find useful to me as a musician eludes me. I would suggest that the famous players that you have named fall into the same category.

For example i am quite certain that if Anthony Jackson decided that becoming proficient at slapping would be worth fitting into his "map" of bass playing then he would decide to work at nailing it!

[Lowender]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1379251702' post='2210313']
Nothing that I find useful to me as a musician eludes me. I would suggest that the famous players that you have named fall into the same category.

For example i am quite certain that if Anthony Jackson decided that becoming proficient at slapping would be worth fitting into his "map" of bass playing then he would decide to work at nailing it!
[/quote]

Well, Chris Sqiure has been doing a solo at YES shows for 30 years and he still stinks at it. Meanwhile his time is impeccable, his tone is god-like, he has chops to spare and his sense of voice leading is one of the most brilliant I've ever heard. Explain that.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1379253261' post='2210340']
Well, Chris Sqiure has been doing a solo at YES shows for 30 years and he still stinks at it. Meanwhile his time is impeccable, his tone is god-like, he has chops to spare and his sense of voice leading is one of the most brilliant I've ever heard. Explain that.
[/quote]
Simple...Chris believes that he is a good soloist! Plenty of non bassist Yes fans probably agree...............

[SpaceChick]

I think I have a good ear and can work out basslines quickly. I also have a fairly good sense of time and can lock into a drummer (even bad ones once I can feel the music! )

My slap is dreadful.... Which is frustrating as I LOVE slap bassline.... I'm working at it, but it just isn't getting there yet.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1379248021' post='2210217']
ha ha Lozz... I'd keep that reference quiet if I were you.
[/quote]

Yeah it doesn`t go with my punk n heavy rock leanings, that`s for sure.

[Lowender]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1379254284' post='2210357']
Simple...Chris believes that he is a good soloist! Plenty of non bassist Yes fans probably agree...............
[/quote]

You said a good player can become good at anything, not THINK they sound good.

Some fans may like it because they simply want to like it, though a lot of musicians realize it's sub par. And if you want to introduce the brilliance of Chris to someone who's never heard him, playing one
of his solos is likely not going to do it.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Lowender

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1379257147' post='2210410']
You said a good player can become good at anything, not THINK they sound good.

Some fans may like it because they simply want to like it, though a lot of musicians realize it's sub par. And if you want to introduce the brilliance of Chris to someone who's never heard him, playing one
of his solos is likely not going to do it.
[/quote]
If Chris thinks he sounds good but you don't then who is right and who is wrong?

I would say that your assertion that Chris is not a good soloist is purely subjective. Your criteria for a good bass solo will be different to mine etc etc. We all hear things differently.

Personally I think that any rock bassist that takes the time to take a solo slot live needs a reality check...but that's just me - and that's another story!

[Maude]

I've just found out that I can 'feel' a timing but cannot 'count' a timing.
We've had to learn the unplugged version of 'I kissed a girl' by Katy Perry (yeah I know) for a gig and the intro is basically 'Take 5' by The Dave Brubeck Quartet.
To me it seems perfectly natural to play but the two guitars are having trouble with the timing (5/4) and are asking me to count as I do the intro so they can come in and stay in time. I can't seem to count and play to this but I can't see what their problem is.
In the electric band we have the same problem with 'Sex on Fire', the guitarist (same one in the acoustic band) can play it fine but when the drums and bass comes in he completely losses the timing, again I know exactly what he should be doing and when but can't count it to him. He's a really good guitarist normally, just gets thrown by strange timings.
I don't know if it's good or bad that I know timings but somehow can't explain or 'count' them .

[Dandelion]

Consistency is my forte'



I am consistently dire at Slap, pick, and finger style.

[Lowender]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1379259765' post='2210460']
If Chris thinks he sounds good but you don't then who is right and who is wrong?

I would say that your assertion that Chris is not a good soloist is purely subjective. Your criteria for a good bass solo will be different to mine etc etc. We all hear things differently.

Personally I think that any rock bassist that takes the time to take a solo slot live needs a reality check...but that's just me - and that's another story!
[/quote]

My opinion is based on the fact that he's a brilliant player but his solos are generic and uninspired. I'm not alone. I also recommended Squire to a bassist who was unfamiliar with his work and he checked out a solo and thought he was awful. I then played a track from The YES Album and then he realized how good he was.

Yes, music is subjective but why make it an issue at every turn? The point is, not everybody can do everything equally well -- even great players.