Squier vintage modified jazz fretless question.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1379343268' post='2211471']
Interesting! My experiences are completely the opposite! Doesn't make yours wrong of course (or mine) but just shows how differently people perceive things.

I've found that a new (and decent) set of strings makes the biggest difference. Then pickups (which don't have to be all that expensive, but it is worth doing your research first). Tuners can be a cheap but worthwhile improvement.

IME, "upgrading" the bridge makes little or no difference to the sound or playability of the instrument.

YMMV, caveat emptor, IME, IMO, etc!!
[/quote]

That's exactly my experience too.
Pickups may make little difference, or a huge difference. There are so many different ones out there! But it's generally, in my experience, a pretty sure way to change the sound of a bass, cheap or expensive it does not matter. The change may not be necessarily for the better, 'though!

Tuners... I have never found a bass that needed new tuners, unless they were broken. It's not exactly hi-tec, and cheap tuners can work just fine.

Bridge? I won't even go there.

Strings and pickups is where it's at, for me.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379344933' post='2211500']
Swapping a set that are absolutely crap for some decent ones will make a big improvement , but swapping one fairly respectable - sounding pickup for another supposedly superior upmarket one can all to often end up being a sideways move , and that is true on expensive basses just as much as cheaper ones
[/quote]

Look at the wide range of pickups available for Jazz basses, from any single big decent manufacturer like DiMarzio. I would not say one set is better than another, but they vary A LOT in sound.

You may not like a perfectly respectable pickup, but like another also perfectly respectable. Jazz bass pickups in particular, I have gone through quite a few in a limited number of basses,, so I got to try the same bass with different pickups: there is quite a big difference between, say, Seymour Duncan SJB-2, Fender USA (forget the model) and DiMarzio Model J. Oh, and Nordstrand NJSE. Which one is better? That's subjective, and it depends on the actual bass too.

[Dingus]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1379446541' post='2212890']

Look at the wide range of pickups available for Jazz basses, from any single big decent manufacturer like DiMarzio. I would not say one set is better than another, but they vary A LOT in sound.

You may not like a perfectly respectable pickup, but like another also perfectly respectable. Jazz bass pickups in particular, I have gone through quite a few in a limited number of basses,, so I got to try the same bass with different pickups: there is quite a big difference between, say, Seymour Duncan SJB-2, Fender USA (forget the model) and DiMarzio Model J. Oh, and Nordstrand NJSE. Which one is better? That's subjective, and it depends on the actual bass too.
[/quote]

I agree , and most half- decent pickups sound perfectly good to me, and all the ones you mention are top quality examples . I am a big fan of Di Marzio , and not quite as keen on Nordstrands on the whole , but that is purely my personal taste . . Some pickups may sound preferable to others on any given bass , but none of them fundamentally change the character of the bass , in my experience . A Jazz Bass will always sound like a Jazz Bass by virtue of the overall design and specific placement of those pickups , regardless of what brand you have in place .

[blamelouis]

Mate has wired Status jazz pickups into my Squier JESUS what a difference ...just comes alive .
Will be ordering a set come payday !!

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1379368693' post='2211972']
These are good basses. The pickups are quite punchy. The Duncan designed pups are known for being punchy. The problem with these guitars are the half pots....... They are sh*t and can make the bass sound wooly. Upgrade the pots it should cost you about £10.
[/quote]

apologies for my ignorance but what are half pots and where do i go to find replacements for my vmJ which is still stock apart from the bridge (which i have hacked away a chunk of the body with a sharp chisel to lower the gotoh bridge down flush to enable better adjustment)?

[Junkyard Rocket]

Pots = potentiometers & are the business bits you can't see attached to the knobs on the other side of the control plate. The ones in squiers tend to be piddly little cheapos, so it would be an improvement to get a set of CTS pots - might as well chuck in a new capacitor & a switchcraft jack at the same time.

btw: Instead of attacking the body with a chisel, putting a shim in the neck pocket would have given your the adjustment you need.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Junkyard Rocket

[DorsetBlue]

Do note though, as I found when doing the serial conversion on my VMJ, the half pots have a slightly smaller thread diameter - so if you convert to other pots, the holes in your control plate might need a bit of a ream out.

[BassTractor]

Yeah, but what are half pots please? It can't just mean they're tiny, can it?
I'd guess it's about the resistance plate or spiral, but don't know at all.

[the boy]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1379504062' post='2213385']


apologies for my ignorance but what are half pots and where do i go to find replacements for my vmJ which is still stock apart from the bridge (which i have hacked away a chunk of the body with a sharp chisel to lower the gotoh bridge down flush to enable better adjustment)?
[/quote]
You animal....... You chiselled your body to fit a new bridge Your pots are whats behind the scratchplate attached to the nobs. On the vmjs they are half sized or mini pots. They are fine but they aren't the best. Type cts pots on eBay and you will find good alternates. They will need to be soldered etc so if you aren't happy doing it, dont.

[redstriper]

PM KiOgon for replacement CTS pots etc. at very reasonable price and fast turnaround.
Easily fitted because they don't need soldering and he can sort the control plate and hole diameters too.

Let us know how they affect the tone.

[mcnach]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1379504062' post='2213385']
apologies for my ignorance but what are half pots and where do i go to find replacements for my vmJ which is still stock apart from the bridge (which i have hacked away a chunk of the body with a sharp chisel to lower the gotoh bridge down flush to enable better adjustment)?
[/quote]



I guess it's one way to address that issue. Now write a label and attach it to teh chisel. The label should read: "ask BC for hints before using this again on a guitar"

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='Junkyard Rocket' timestamp='1379504703' post='2213395']

btw: Instead of attacking the body with a chisel, putting a shim in the neck pocket would have given your the adjustment you need.
[/quote]

shimmed it and didnt like it - too much squeaking and creaking and a tiny amount of movement - not a big fan of shimming as the heel contact is never 100% - call me old and fussy but id rather hack lumps out of the body than shim the neck

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1379510350' post='2213508']


I guess it's one way to address that issue. Now write a label and attach it to teh chisel. The label should read: "ask BC for hints before using this again on a guitar"
[/quote]

haha i dont give a bugger me - they are practical giging instruments and im fairly confident about hacking them about to get them working just how i want them - i used to be a draughtsman craftsman so i have steady hand for those sort of jobs the opnly thing that really lets me down these days is my eyesight which has deteriorated rapidly with my age so now i need to get hold of a big magnifying glass on a stand to cope with these jobs - my vmJ bridge modification is workable and passable and not visible from a distance - it was only my eyesight that let me bugger up a couple of small sections around the pocket into which i sunk the bridge plate

anyways im interested to know more about these half pots and exactly how they cause the sound to be a bit sheepish and any recommendations of where to get replacements please thank you very much

[redstriper]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1379512685' post='2213539']

anyways im interested to know more about these half pots and exactly how they cause the sound to be a bit sheepish and any recommendations of where to get replacements please thank you very much
[/quote]

See my post above, message John and ask him - he will help you I'm sure.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1379512685' post='2213539']
anyways im interested to know more about these half pots and exactly how they cause the sound to be a bit sheepish and any recommendations of where to get replacements please thank you very much [/quote]
This can be a bit of a can of worms on here. No-one has been able to adequately explain (IMO) why cheaper pots would affect the sound compared to more expensive pots of the same value, although many are adamant that CTS or similar sound better. The higher quality pots do feel nicer, last longer and have a better taper though.

[the boy]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1379525272' post='2213725']

This can be a bit of a can of worms on here. No-one has been able to adequately explain (IMO) why cheaper pots would affect the sound compared to more expensive pots of the same value, although many are adamant that CTS or similar sound better. The higher quality pots do feel nicer, last longer and have a better taper though.
[/quote]
A question and an answer all in one post.

[Grangur]

I was on the Seymour Duncan site last night and see they do pups designed for Fretless. Has anyone here tried them?

In response to the OP; I agree with Dingus, I've done a re-build project on a scratched Squier. I changed everything; bridge, heads, pots, Bartolini pups etc. All fitted to a re-sprayed body and great neck.

I now have a bass with a cost to me of about £300. Will anyone pay me £300? Probably not. If I sell I'l probably convert all the bits back and sell the good quality parts.

[blamelouis]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379572358' post='2214236']
I was on the Seymour Duncan site last night and see they do pups designed for Fretless. Has anyone here tried them?

In response to the OP; I agree with Dingus, I've done a re-build project on a scratched Squier. I changed everything; bridge, heads, pots, Bartolini pups etc. All fitted to a re-sprayed body and great neck.

I now have a bass with a cost to me of about £300. Will anyone pay me £300? Probably not. If I sell I'l probably convert all the bits back and sell the good quality parts.
[/quote]

But are you happy with it ?

[Grangur]

[quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1379617450' post='2214976']
But are you happy with it ?
[/quote]
Happy-ish. I play it most of the time, but the Warwick still has the edge. So I may sell it and get something better.

It's still a mystery to me how I can do all I can to improve a Squier:

Hipshot bridge
New strings
New tuners
Fender pots
Sparague capacitor
Bartolini pups

It still doesn't have the feel of the Warwick... IMHO

To me the Warwick still feels like "home"

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1379525272' post='2213725']
adequately explain [...] why cheaper pots would affect the sound compared to more expensive pots of the same value
[/quote]

Oh, but that's simple. A pot is essentially a resistor, and as any resistor will have a certain frequency response for starters.
Problem with quite many pots is that that frequency response will change considerably when the knob is turned, making some hi-fi amp builders to not use pots at all, but opt for lots of expensive resistors instead, and mechanics so that one can choose between them with a volume knob.

I'd guess not only frequency response are altered, but also phase linearity, but as said it's a guess.

As an aside, AFAIK, knowledge about stuff like that started NAD. It's said they designed their first amps so they had predictable performance despite cheap components. This way they were able to make well sounding amps for a tenner or two.

[blamelouis]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379626653' post='2215123']

Happy-ish. I play it most of the time, but the Warwick still has the edge. So I may sell it and get something better.

It's still a mystery to me how I can do all I can to improve a Squier:

Hipshot bridge
New strings
New tuners
Fender pots
Sparague capacitor
Bartolini pups

It still doesn't have the feel of the Warwick... IMHO

To me the Warwick still feels like "home"
[/quote]

I love my Warwick ...

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1379687023' post='2215742']
Oh, but that's simple. A pot is essentially a resistor, and as any resistor will have a certain frequency response for starters.
[/quote]
Can you explain how a resistor could vary with frequency, unless it was also behaving as an inductor? I am not convinced that a simple carbon track pot has enough inductance to make a difference here. I brought up the issue because I do not believe that fitting higher quality pots of the same value will alter the sound of an instrument in any way (although it can be a worthy upgrade for other reasons), and the cases where people think it did can be explained by conformation bias or because they have corrected other issues (such as bad solder joints) in the process.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1379759925' post='2216475']
Can you explain how a resistor could vary with frequency, unless it was also behaving as an inductor? I am not convinced that a simple carbon track pot has enough inductance to make a difference here. I brought up the issue because I do not believe that fitting higher quality pots of the same value will alter the sound of an instrument in any way (although it can be a worthy upgrade for other reasons), and the cases where people think it did can be explained by conformation bias or because they have corrected other issues (such as bad solder joints) in the process.
[/quote]
It doesn't make it sound better. It's all in the joints and the benefit is the reliability and, I guess, the quality of the connection of the sweep-arm connection to the carbon track. (Gold contacts would be better than aluminium for example - not that I expect anyone makes them with gold).

[AntLockyer]

How about capacitance?

[Grangur]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1379774400' post='2216660']
How about capacitance?
[/quote] Changing the value of the capacitor will change the frequency range of the sound that's allowed to go to earth. So it will change the qualities of the treble-cut.

Getting a good quality capacitor will also reduce any leakage current flow and could get you a crisper tone maybe.

I've found the sound of a good number of basses I've looked at can be improved by:

1 - Checking the circuit for mistakes. (It's surprising how many have the cap wrongly connected.)
2 - Check for poor soldering - bad connections.
3 - Get the pups in easy reach of the strings by replacing the foam under the pups.
4 - Change the strings.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Grangur