Isn't it annoying when..?

[operative451]

...you spend out on 'proper' pedals and then find that actually the most happy-making noise comes from the thing you had all the time already?

I've mucked about and fiddled with a proper wah, fuzz, chorus and overdrive, and now find that actually, for proper use, my trusty ancient zoom 505 can do anything i need to do! Oh well, it'll be less to carry!

And i still like splitting my analogue pedals off so that one amp has wah and fuzz and can be the JAMC when i'm playing on my own. But anyway.

[Sibob]

What 'proper' pedals have you been trying that don't stand up to a Zoom 505? lol
Don't get me wrong, everything is completely subjective......but still

Si

[operative451]

Its not so much they don't stand up, if anything they do too much! Also, do i detect a note of elitest snobbery?
The compressor's good, so is the noise gate, and the reverbs do enough to give it some space. Bit of bass boost and some overdrive if you're in a dirty mood and that's pretty much all that seems to be needed, especially when the guitars and sequencers are going 'bwarm badderr' excitedly! It's almost liberating to be the one solid non-hyper-effected sound in the mix!

[Sibob]

Haha, I wouldn't say I'm a snob (much), whatever works for the individual
However I will say that I've never heard a decent overdrive/distortion/fuzz from a stock Multi-FX. I've got a Boss ME-50B, and it does everything extremely well apart from drive lol.
However given the choice, yes, I would use nice single pedals over cheap digital multi's

That said, I tried an old Zoom 708 the other month for the first time in years, hilarious, it was so horrible that it was cool!

Si

[operative451]

Most of the pre-sets on any digital stuff are horrific! I guess it depends what you plug it into too..!

[operative451]

Funnily enough, i watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofS3bfyFeU
and got a pretty similar sound out of my 505 and dinky guitar amps!

Edited March 24, 2014 by icastle
Link fixed.

[Ancient Mariner]

For some reason, pre-sets have always been a bad idea. I've just started playing again recently (guitar) and took along a reasonably decent pedal board for the first few practices before dragging out my old Korg AX30G processor that I carefully spent hours setting up 20 years ago (literally). Cue instant fat warmth and sparkle. It never sounds as good as separate pedals through a great amp on a good day, but most of the time it's plenty good enough to get the job done.

[operative451]

Interestingly i find my zoomlet sounds great thorugh a mixer via my desktop speakers when used with my PC and frooty loops, and not so good through an actual amp! Its basically a proto-POD...

[cheddatom]

I used to use a GFX707 blended with another line of effects. I actually loved the drive tone I was getting from it. I think it was a TS or a Rat model I was using. Whatever it was, it was ace. I really miss that pedal, I'd modded it with two extra footswitches to go up and down 10 patches, which meant I could switch between patches much easier. I leant it to a friend who I've not heard from in years

[woodyratm]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1379521138' post='2213657']
That said, I tried an old Zoom 708 the other month for the first time in years, hilarious, it was so horrible that it was cool!

Si
[/quote]


Ah the memories - my first fx unit

Miss the drum machine and chorus (if I recall?) most.

[xgsjx]

I used to have a Zoom 708 (black & orange thing). I liked a couple of the sounds on it (the detune sounds could come in handy), but it couldn't replace any of my pedals (ok, maybe the chorus).
I used it once at a gig & it died mid song. I unplugged it & just went bass > amp.

[Left Foot]

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1379520333' post='2213650']
Also, do i detect a note of elitest snobbery?
[/quote] It reads like you wantonly inferred it as such. The majority of people, who are interested enough to read and post in this effects forum and who have tried earlier Zoom products and 'proper pedals', would agree without bias that the differences in sound/noise is a matter of quality not snobbery. The zoom 708 was my first pedal too, it was very much a toy.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Left Foot

[operative451]

Given the choice between a toy and a tool, i know which i'll usually pick! ;

[Left Foot]

Its annoying when you haven't got the right tool for the job.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Left Foot

[xgsjx]

If you're sitting at home playing your bass, then toys are fine. if you're out gigging, then you want something a bit more durable than a plastic box & sound quality to match.

[Roland Rock]

When I saw the OP, I got the feeling that it was the equivalent of walking into an NRA meeting to extol the virtues of the air rifle :-D

BTW, that's only a comment on the situation, rather than my view on 'tool v toy'

Edited September 20, 2013 by Roland Rock

[Dave Vader]

For recording, my multi-effects boxes are fine. Soon as I put them in a live situation though, the stupid multi press menus drive me nuts as i can't quickly change settings to suit the sudden change in volume/tempo/wind direction.
Also the synth sounds are invariably unuseable.

[Beer of the Bass]

Out of curiosity, has the Zoom stuff got better in the past few years? I had the first generation 506 (from around 1996) and while it did some fun stuff, the sound on cleaner patches or bypassed was definitely lacking something compared to plugging straight to the amp. I still have it in a cupboard somewhere, it might be fun to dig it out some time...

Edited September 20, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1379673094' post='2215497']
Out of curiosity, has the Zoom stuff got better in the past few years? I had the first generation 506 (from around 1996) and while it did some fun stuff, the sound on cleaner patches or bypassed was definitely lacking something compared to plugging straight to the amp. I still have it in a cupboard somewhere, it might be fun to dig it out some time...
[/quote]

There's a few on here that gig the newer Zoom gear, so I dare say it probably is of better quality. Line 6 gets good rap for multi fx.

[Sibob]

Lots of people get on really well with the Zoom B3, but again, its whether you are ok with digital models over analogue equivalents. Some people don't care, some people just want a small unit with everything in, there is no right/wrong.

Si

[operative451]

I think the 505/506 series were the first with any kind of 'modern' processing. Still not 'amp modelling' yet, but enough oomph in the chip to not sound too casio! Its all good, i think it's got its own character - i'd agree that most of the drives are worse than useless, i always found myself using 'blues' or 'overdrive' exclusively as a guitar player. It's also clearly voiced to get the best out of rubbish output equipment, so as a play-along tool/toy into a mixer with my computer and out to PC speakers, it sounds good enough compared to mp3s!

Its also a human issue - i have no idea really how to set up a proper compressor or reverbs, so having options of 'C1-C9' etc, means i can just get on with it!

For recording we use my musical colleaques POD - it works well, the models do a good job of giving us way more of a 'proper amp mic'ed in the next room' feel than we could get otherwise!

[Guest FretNoMore]

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1379506963' post='2213444']
...you spend out on 'proper' pedals and then find that actually the most happy-making noise comes from the thing you had all the time already?
...
[/quote]

I'm sure that can be annoying. I have to say it hasn't happened to me yet though, when I buy something new it is because I'm not happy with what I currently have, and so far I have not owned a multi-effects box that sounds better than the separate pedals I use now. Multieffects do have other good, even better qualities, such as being able to set up patches and also getting whackier noises that the separate pedals can't make. In terms of sound quality, responsiveness, etc - nah, I'm way happier with my 'proper' pedals. What's 'happy-making noise' is likely very individual though.

And please, it's not about snobbery. I couldn't care less what others use or what others think of what I use, it's all about what my own ears tell me.

Edited September 21, 2013 by FretNoMore

[Karnage]

I remember selling loads of those old Zoom things when I worked in a shop. Nothing else in their price point when they went to the 505 and 506 models.

Any comments about reliability of something plastic being lacking, simply don't bear out the evidence of those who have sold the stuff in large quantities fortunately for those who have them. Zoom was by far the most reliable kit we sold in the shop (and it wasn't a small shop). IN the first 2000 units we sold, we had one come back, and the user had stamped on the jack plug and we re-soldered the socket for them free of charge and told them to be more careful (Zoom 505). More reliable than Boss or any other pedal we sold. Broken plastic pedal? Didn't see one in many thousands of units. Even the Boss volume was plastic at the time and that wasn't cheap.

The only issue I had with the old Zoom stuff (given it's price) was guitar distortion - once it was on, you couldn't tell which guitar had been plugged into it! It sounded the same all the time. Great fun for such little money though.

Line 6 stuff does compete with some separate pedals, but only the higher end stuff Line 6 really, and it's not that cheap if you don't use many effects at that point!

[ratman]

I'm happy to have the B3 on my board to mostly handle flange, chorus, delay, octave & filter. They're the effects that I don't really need too often and I can't justify spending a shed load of cash on the separate pedals. Or having a massive board, unpractical for most gigs, half filled with gear that doesn't get used a lot. But I love my overdrives and distortions. These I do use, a lot. And I have 5 of the real thing on my board. For me, I have the best of both worlds and I'm happy with it for now.
Definitely a case of each to his/her own here, but I'm struggling to imagine how an old digital multi fx unit can try to sound remotely useable next to the new breed of digital kit, like Line6, Zoom, Boss etc.

[operative451]

Probably a lot depends on what sort of sounds you enjoy too! I like quite lo-fi rough gritty noises, pretty much I started playing in the first place to make that painful 'screeee-uuuuurrrrnch' jamc grunge,so i kind of find pristine clean and clear a bit boring...