"I'll never be able to play like that."

[Telebass]

[quote name='SpaceChick' timestamp='1379664018' post='2215304']
I frequently beat myself up over my playing.... My slap is weak.... My fast runs are struggling....I can hear dead notes as they should sound but I can't translate that in my playing..... I get cross and frustrated with myself!!

I practice as much as I can with a full time job and home commitments, but if I'm honest with myself, I tend to focus on getting the lines right for the band stuff rather than dedicating time to improving me technique generically, so it's hardly surprising that I'm frustrated with my progress.

However, when people listen to my band recordings, they think we sound professional and tight and that my playing is pretty much spot on.

If I won the lottery tonight, could give up work and could spend all my waking hours bass playing, maybe in 10 years or so I could give Mark King or Pino Palladino or run for their money. However, I reckon I'll settle for being a competent bassist. As long as I can hold my own in whatever band I play in and enjoy it and I don't stuff it up then that's OK for me, as my guitarist isn't Eric Clapton, my keys isn't Elton John and my drummer isn't Ginger Baker! But bring us together and we make good sounding music... And surely that's what really matters!
[/quote]
This.

[BigRedX]

I believe that given enough practice anyone can play pretty much anything.

The real skill is coming up with what to play in the first place.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1379621863' post='2215049']
I have never expressed this view upon seeing any bass player play because I fully believe that with the right amount of dedication, persistence and hard work, anyone can play anything that anyone else can play. I hear and read the phrase a lot though. If this is a realistic acknowledgement of lack of time, pressures of everyday life, etc. I understand. However, if it's due to a perceived lack of talent, or the idea that it would be impossible for one to reach a particular standard, I say that's rubbish.
[/quote]
I agree in principal...however would add the word "Education" to your assertion that sufficient dedication, persistence and hard work are required. Having a great coach would undoubtedly help.

[Toddy]

[i]that's like saying anyone with dedication and practise can play golf like Tiger Woods,, or play guitar like bonamassa,, sadly we all have limits,, which used to be interesting!!,,none of my fav singers for example would get no-where on X-Factor,, "Sorry mr jagger you just cant sing",,,,not exactly right is it![/i]

[thebigyin]

Some great points raised....personally I think a natural ability will always win thro'....there are some naturally gifted musicians which is what makes them great....then there's those like myself who have to work hard to achieve something....but it's all about enjoyment and we can all live in hope that one day we'll achieve our goal.

[RhysP]

I realised decades ago I'd never be able to play like my bass idols so, largely because I'm a lazy indisciplined bastard, I just didn't bother trying.

I still get asked to play with people & do sessions fairly regularly so I guess I must be doing something right, even if it's not how "proper" bass players do it.

[discreet]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1379867841' post='2217563']
...I'd never be able to play like my bass idols so... ...I just didn't bother trying.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjGoaKf52s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjGoaKf52s[/url]

[Grangur]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1379867841' post='2217563']
I realised decades ago I'd never be able to play like my bass idols so, largely because I'm a lazy indisciplined bastard, I just didn't bother trying.

I still get asked to play with people & do sessions fairly regularly so I guess I must be doing something right, even if it's not how "proper" bass players do it.
[/quote]
It's very easy to knock your own ability like this, but have you noticed how the "idol" players, when playing solos often stick to their "party piece" licks.

Victor Wootten plays Amazing Grace,
Billy Sheehan goes for some manic raking
etc...

When did Billy Sheehan last do a dep and have to learn 12 new tracks in a week while keeping down a day job?

[discreet]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379868568' post='2217576']
When did Billy Sheehan last do a dep and have to learn 12 new tracks in a week while keeping down a day job?
[/quote]

Combined with a crap drummer, a bird who thinks she's Adele and an incontinent alcoholic guitarist with a messiah complex.

Edited September 22, 2013 by discreet

[RhysP]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379868568' post='2217576']
It's very easy to knock your own ability like this.....
[/quote]

I wasn't knocking my own ability - I think I'm a f***ing brilliant bass player, just a very lazy one.

Edited September 22, 2013 by RhysP

[Grangur]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1379869744' post='2217586']
I wasn't knocking my own ability - I think I'm a f***ing brilliant bass player, just a very lazy one.
[/quote]
I wasn't being persona; - Your post was a typical and just happened to be the last. Like us all you have real-life to deal with.

I think I heard Flea practices 12 hours every day. When did you have that kind of time to comit - even if you wanted to?
When you're doing the shopping or washing up Flea would be practising. He probably has staff who do that cr@p for him.

Again - not being personal.

[SpaceChick]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1379868759' post='2217580']


Combined with a crap drummer, a bird who thinks she's Adele and an incontinent alcoholic guitarist with a messiah complex.
[/quote]

Love it

[discreet]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379870440' post='2217597']
I think I heard Flea practices 12 hours every day.
[/quote]

Really? He should be a lot better than he is then, in that case.

Edited September 22, 2013 by discreet

[RhysP]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1379870440' post='2217597']
I wasn't being persona; - Your post was a typical and just happened to be the last. Like us all you have real-life to deal with.

I think I heard Flea practices 12 hours every day. When did you have that kind of time to comit - even if you wanted to?
When you're doing the shopping or washing up Flea would be practising. He probably has staff who do that cr@p for him.

Again - not being personal.
[/quote]

I didn't think you were being personal for a second.
I was also, once again, not being entirely serious - I've been playing for 34+ years so hopefully I've gained a bit of ability in that time but I'm far from "f***ing brilliant"!
At best I can produce a reasonable facsimile of the sort of things that bass players tend to be required to do but that's about it.

There are people who have been playing for a few years who, due to the amount of dedication & discipline they have, are better players than I am but the truth is being a superb musician isn't really high on my list of important stuff & never has been.
Given the choice between spending a few hours practicing scales or just sitting down & doing nothing I'd pick the latter every time. If I was able to practice for 12 hours every day i wouldn't, in fact I can't think of anything worse.
I have no ambition & even less drive but I've never seen that as a problem to be honest.

[Dingus]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1379672809' post='2215491']
Yes but really, you are only talking about operating the machine, the musical decisions and what makes the musician an individual are what's important. Of course you can learn to play everything Pino did, but to really be like Pino, you have a journey of self-discovery to make so you can be YOU and not Pino. It's fairly straightforward to learn play like someone else, to learn to play like yourself is the really hard part.
[/quote]

Just to endorse this point , it is one thing (and quite often no easy thing) to learn and copy Pino's lines , but it another thing entirely to come up with those bass parts in the first place . I have been able to play Sting's bassline on "Walking On The Moon ", for example, since I was twelve years old , but I am still a million miles away from ever coming up with a hook like that myself , and probably never will . I am a firm beliver that serious practise is the only way to make improvement as a player , but there is a certain point where individual creativity and inspiration takes over . That is what makes it art , and usually what makes it beautiful . That said , when I see a great bass player , I don't think " I'll never be able to play like that " , even if in reality , I probably won't . It just makes me more enthusiastic and inspired to keep working to be a better player myself .

Edited September 22, 2013 by Dingus

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379871966' post='2217631']
Just to endorse this point , it is one thing (and quite often no easy thing) to learn and copy Pino's lines , but it another thing entirely to come up with those bass parts in the first place . I have been able to play Sting's bassline on "Walking On The Moon ", for example, since I was twelve years old , but I am still a million miles away from ever coming up with a hook like that myself , and probably never will . I am a firm beliver that serious practise is the only way to make improvement as a player , but there is a certain point where individual creativity and inspiration takes over . That is what makes it art , and usually what makes it beautiful . That said , when I see a great bass player , I don't think " I'll never be able to play like that " , even if in reality , I probably won't . It just makes me more enthusiastic and inspired to keep working to be a better player myself .
[/quote]
I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's all about remaining positive and enjoying your own playing.

[gjones]

I think you can learn the skills to play a musical instrument well, if you put the hours in. But the added leap from being good to being great takes something extra, which is something you can't learn from a book, DVD or teacher.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379871966' post='2217631']
Just to endorse this point , it is one thing (and quite often no easy thing) to learn and copy Pino's lines , but it another thing entirely to come up with those bass parts in the first place . I have been able to play Sting's bassline on "Walking On The Moon ", for example, since I was twelve years old , but I am still a million miles away from ever coming up with a hook like that myself , and probably never will . I am a firm beliver that serious practise is the only way to make improvement as a player , but there is a certain point where individual creativity and inspiration takes over . That is what makes it art , and usually what makes it beautiful . That said , when I see a great bass player , I don't think " I'll never be able to play like that " , even if in reality , I probably won't . It just makes me more enthusiastic and inspired to keep working to be a better player myself .
[/quote]

Coming into playing covers after 30 years of only playing songs I'd written or co-written, I found some supposedly difficult to play songs relatively easy since the bass lines were the sort of thing I might have come up with myself given the genre and the chord sequence. Conversely songs that should have been really easy to play turned out to be quite challenging as I found it quite hard to get my head around how the bass line was constructed as it didn't make any real sense to me.

Also IMO songwriting is a skill that can be learnt just like playing an instrument, but like playing an instrument you have to have the motivation to do it. It surprises me that musicians will spend ages developing technical skills that they will rarely use, but don't work on creating new songs even when they play in originals bands - letting other members come up with the main ideas. The normal excuse given is that they've tried writing and can't come up with anything good, ignoring the fact that they weren't a brilliant player the first time they picked up their chosen instrument, so why should they expect song writing to be any different?

For me learning to play an instrument as always been about giving me a better understanding of how the write and arrange rather than an end in itself.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1379879846' post='2217787']
Coming into playing covers after 30 years of only playing songs I'd written or co-written, I found some supposedly difficult to play songs relatively easy since the bass lines were the sort of thing I might have come up with myself given the genre and the chord sequence. Conversely songs that should have been really easy to play turned out to be quite challenging as I found it quite hard to get my head around how the bass line was constructed as it didn't make any real sense to me.

Also IMO songwriting is a skill that can be learnt just like playing an instrument, but like playing an instrument you have to have the motivation to do it. It surprises me that musicians will spend ages developing technical skills that they will rarely use, but don't work on creating new songs even when they play in originals bands - letting other members come up with the main ideas. The normal excuse given is that they've tried writing and can't come up with anything good, ignoring the fact that they weren't a brilliant player the first time they picked up their chosen instrument, so why should they expect song writing to be any different?

For me learning to play an instrument as always been about giving me a better understanding of how the write and arrange rather than an end in itself.
[/quote]

I think songwriting and being an instrumental accompanist are two very different skills . If you set out primarily wanting to be a bass guitarist , your objectives and the skills you need to develop to achieve them are probably quite different than if you set out wanting to be a songwriter with a creative input in a band that writes original material , and you play bass as a means to that ends . Both are of equal worth , and the final results can often appear the same externally , but the motivation and ultimate goal in doing so are quite different . I have always strived to be a good bass player , and let the rest take care of itself . In learning to play countless cover songs and also original material in bands when I was younger , though , I have learnt quite a lot about song structure and the various techniques most songwriters use when they are creating . The same progressions and formulas crop up time and again . You begin to realise the great skill of songwriting is to be able to do the same old thing yet again and make it sound interesting and effective , because it really has all been done before .

[skej21]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1379621863' post='2215049']
I have never expressed this view upon seeing any bass player play because I fully believe that with the right amount of dedication, persistence and hard work, anyone can play anything that anyone else can play. I hear and read the phrase a lot though. If this is a realistic acknowledgement of lack of time, pressures of everyday life, etc. I understand. However, if it's due to a perceived lack of talent, or the idea that it would be impossible for one to reach a particular standard, I say that's rubbish.
[/quote]

I can understand it. Whilst you're right that with enough practice you can copy someone else's playing, it's the creativity that one may never match. It's the originality, the innovation, the muse that separates imitation Jaco (or any other bass great) lines from the brain of the player that can hear those lines before they're played. Some players will never nail that, even with 1 million hours practice!

[Nick Riffed]

I can remember listening to a Nils Lofgren track back in the '70's and thinking 'One day I want to be able to play bass like that'.
After some years I bought a bass and started playing along to stuff, as you do, and dug out the old Nils Lofgren album.
Yep, there was that bass again, still there in all it's glory and me still thinking that one day I'll get there.
It wasn't until some time down the line that I thought to check out who was actually playing bass on the track.
Turns out to be a guy called Paul Stallworth who has played with practically everyone over the years ably assisted on a second bass by a certain Mr Chuck Rainey.
One of them and I may have stood a chance but two of the best session and band bass players of all time...........

Things are not always as they seem.

[tauzero]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1379868759' post='2217580']
Combined with a crap drummer, a bird who thinks she's Adele and an incontinent alcoholic guitarist with a messiah complex.
[/quote]

So it was you who took over from me in the club band then.

[Lowender]

Certain things are a matter of practice and certain things are inate. For example, anyone can't just practice singing to the point where you can hit any note in any range. It's just impossible. If you're 5' 6" you can't practice your way to being a professional basketball player.

Speed is also one of those things that some people have over others. It's anatomy to a degree.

NOBODY can do everything. Some people are very skilled at many things but there are always some things they do better and there will always be things other people will do better.

Musicianship isn't just about amassing technical prowess. it's about style. And I think that's great. it's what makes it interesting.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Lowender

[KingBollock]

I am an outstanding example of how not to go about becoming a musician... I hate being called a musician. The only time I ever went into my local guitar shop, after talking for a while the bloke was under the impression that I was a musician, his word, and because I didn't immediately correct him, because the conversation moved too quickly, I have never been back into his shop, out of guilt. I do tinker with other instruments, but Bass is my first and main instrument, so I accept the title Bass player but I'm not even a good example of that.

I have various excuses, including having to take short term memory destroying medication for my whole adult life, but the main problem is that I never challenged myself. When I was a kid and playing in bands, I was able to play everything I was asked, easily. I was actually quite sought after. When I cocked things up and lost all my musician contacts I just stopped working at it. Later I had a few friends who were aspiring musicians, who were rather in awe of what I could do, which didn't help. Because I had gotten away with it for so long while not even knowing most of the notes on the fretboard, nevermind learning to read music, I just didn't bother. I always just thought that if I ever got back into a band again I would have the excuse to work at it, to challenge myself, but it has never happened, and now I worry that I just wouldn't measure up.

I remember, a few months after starting to learn to play Bass, I had taken it into a music lesson at school. The teacher played a note on the piano and asked me to play it on the Bass, I just gave him a blank look. He told me that it was an F. Another blank look. He then asked me "How the hell do you play all the stuff you play without even knowing the notes?" and all I could do was shrug and say "I don't know.", and I really didn't know. To this day I can't read music, or work stuff out by ear - though, oddly, if I accidentally play something I have heard I can then work out the rest of the tune by myself without listening to the tune - and I totally regret it.

The husband of a mate of my wife's has been bugging my wife to get me to teach him to play Bass and I keep turning him down, because I am not fit to teach (I did teach guitar to a mate's daughter for a while but I hated it, horrible child...). I have yielded a bit and said he can bring his Bass over for a jam and see how it goes, I might be able to help with some basics, or at least make sure his Bass is set up right.

I am sort of like the homeless person that parents point out to their kids to make sure they go to school. Take heed!

[Colonel36]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1382152579' post='2248748']


The husband of a mate of my wife's has been bugging my wife to get me to teach him to play Bass and I keep turning him down, because I am not fit to teach (I did teach guitar to a mate's daughter for a while but I hated it, horrible child...). I have yielded a bit and said he can bring his Bass over for a jam and see how it goes, I might be able to help with some basics, or at least make sure his Bass is set up right.


[/quote]
Please just try to teach a little to this bloke. Not easy, but maybe just a little patience on your part.
You've nothing to lose and maybe, just maybe you might just see that you've got something important to give to this guy that could benefit you also.
You probably know a lot more than even you think you do. Go on...........just do it even if it's "your way".