Finding the perfect double bass? (Bryant, Jay Haide, Upton) (£5,500) Limit.

[ubassman]

Good luck with it Andrew !

May be useful to check out the flying with instruments [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/41208-flying-with-instruments-my-guide/"]thread[/url] !

[oggiesnr]

Somewhere in the back of mind I've heard of this dodge before and it went horribly wrong. I try and rake up the details.

Steve

[bassace]

I was more than happy with my Bryant - still am - and couldn't find fault with the finish and certainly no cracks/seams. Yes, when I get round to it I'll have the fingerboard re-shot but other than a slight buzz in one position on the A (sometimes) the bass is well playable.

Importing my bass from Upton was straightforward. As a rule of thumb the dollar price is about what you'd pay in pounds to include shipping and duty. Probably a little bit more now that vat has increased to 20%. I contacted some shipping agents over here and they arranged the import and I collected the bass from the airport. Presumably the shippers will do it all door-to-door.

And Tom and George Martin are 15 miles up the road. Happy days.

BTW, sometime back we mooted the idea of a double bass get-together. This could be useful not only to the more established players but also those wanting to get into all things DB - whose numbers are growing. We've got some nice stuff between us which could point the way. It's going to be geographically difficult - maybe two locations at different times - but we ought to have a go next year.

[bassace]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379699354' post='2215936']
Well hmm theres different ways to look at this, I will be flying over to America to the Bass Violin Shop and staying with relatives. If someone else buys the bass, gives me a double bass or whatever then technically I wouldn't know the value of the instrument and could transport the bass in a flightcase no questions asked through customs.

Surely?

I'm carrying the instrument myself, it isn't being transported by a currier?

If the worse comes to the worse and I still have to Pay VAT surely i'd still be miles better off in terms of bass and general pricing of the instrument?

[url="http://bassviolinshop.com/catalog/index.php/pcategory/carved/"]http://bassviolinsho...ategory/carved/[/url]

I could buy any of the basses up to $8,000 ^
[/quote]

I have known of a new bass brought over as personal property.

[marvin spangles]

Hi Andrew
You seem to have your mind made up re buying an Upton Bass. They certainly have a great reputation. I myself have imported a bass from the us. However there are great basses to be had here too. I had an opportunity to play on a Thomas Martin Concert model earlier this year. It was a fairly big bass . The owner said it was a 4/4 model. I found it very playable. The sound quality was excellent. The only downside was the Bridge was a little too high and needed adjusters. However I thought it was a quality instrument with a huge sound. The advantage of buying locally of course means that at some point in the future you may decide to trade up. And of course the valuable relationship you form when buying from a Luthier that takes pride in his work.

[ubassman]

...I wonder if someone in the USA is thinking of coming over to the UK to look at the Contrabasse Shoppe or T + G Martins huge selection - thinking to themselves that they can get a real European bass at a great price !! ...I guess its how you see things ! Either way it will be an adventure

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1379708675' post='2216125']
...I wonder if someone in the USA is thinking of coming over to the UK to look at the Contrabasse Shoppe or T + G Martins huge selection - thinking to themselves that they can get a real European bass at a great price !! ...I guess its how you see things ! Either way it will be an adventure
[/quote]

Definitely true.

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379709543' post='2216142']
[url="http://www.bobshouseofbasses.com/staging/staging_site/rogeri_willow.html"]http://www.bobshouse...eri_willow.html[/url] An option.

[url="http://bassviolinshop.com/catalog/index.php/products/samuel-shen-sb200-rogeri-willow/"]http://bassviolinsho...-rogeri-willow/[/url]

Is it me or are these the same bass or different models or? hmm?
[/quote]

I've found a lot of similar examples recently, the same instrument with different brand name depending on where it's sold. I think like EBs in the 80s, a lot of different brands are coming out of the same workshops

[FLoydElgar]

Go with you gut. But I agree with Marvin sounds like you're sold on the idea of a Upton

[SevenSeas]

I wouldn't an Upton, theres a lot more choice in America and a lot more bass for your money. That being said I will still try the Bryant.

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379710868' post='2216169']
I wouldn't have to be an Upton, theres a lot more choice in America and a lot more bass for your money. That being said I will still try the Bryant.
[/quote]

[henry norton]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379702000' post='2215987']
I did have a look, well heres the thing...

I could go and try a double bass, seem which one I want.
My aunt could then buy it and when she comes over to the UK bring it with her. (surely as it's her bass and she would have documentation for buying it in the USA and would be returning there) surely she could bring it over with no VAT charges?

The other thing I would be petrified is flying it over, even in a flight case surely it wouldnt' be 100% safe?
[/quote]

I used to import quite a bit of stuff from the US and the worst mistake to make is presuming customs haven't already thought of all the scams. You might get away with it but it's best to factor import duty and vat onto anything you by over there. That way you won't be scratching around for a couple of grand to release your new bass from the bonded warehouse [size=4] [/size]

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379711790' post='2216179']
It's a bloody nightmare import tax, If I did it like this though. Surely it will be impossible for them to know, literally impossible as the bass would of been brought by someone who lives in America who would be traveling to England on holiday with the bass. (with documentation)
Hmmm damn you 20% VAT tax!
[/quote]

If you bring something of value into the country you often have to prove you're taking it out with you as well. As Henry said, Customs aren't daft, they have experts in musical instruments who know exactly what they're doing and how people try to get around the rule, they also have more powers than the police.

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379712605' post='2216192']
What happens though if you go over there and buy a bass off a private seller? (How are customs going to know the value of the instrument?)
[/quote]

You have to declare it, as you would have to on an eBay sale from a private seller. Repeat, Customs aren't stupid. I'm sure there'a a very good chance that if you walked through the 'nothing to declare' corridor with a DB on your back you'd get away with it, but for the money in question and the stress, I wouldn't risk it. An impounded instrument and a fine wouldn't be funny.

[Bilbo]

Customs do this all day every day. You are doing it once. What makes you think you are going to dream up the perfect plan? My advice? Don't even think about it.

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1379712998' post='2216197']
You have to declare it, as you would have to on an eBay sale from a private seller. Repeat, Customs aren't stupid. I'm sure there'a a very good chance that if you walked through the 'nothing to declare' corridor with a DB on your back you'd get away with it, but for the money in question and the stress, I wouldn't risk it. An impounded instrument and a fine wouldn't be funny.
[/quote]

Yup. As per my post earlier, they had to complete a carnet when they bought it in, when they didn't have it with them on the way out they got a huge bill for import duty based on a notional value (way inflated) plus a penalty of 100% of that amount. If it's worth importing it's worth doing properly.

Personally, in your price range, I think there are plenty of UK basses (both new and second hand) that would fit the bill. Also remember if there are any issues with the bass, a - the company is in the States so how are you going to get aftercare and b - if your relative is the purchaser of record then the contract and guarantee are with them, you have no rights with the supplier.

Steve

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379713967' post='2216217']
What about people who own instruments already brought in that country who are then flying because they have a tour/show etc?
Also apparently some people got receipts from the company saying this bass cost me I dunno £1000... instead of £5000 etc. So they would declare it as being less value then it really is
[/quote]

Seriously mate, either do your homework or, if you think you're special, try it. Learning by your mistakes is the best way after all

[Beedster]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1379714222' post='2216220']
Yup. As per my post earlier, they had to complete a carnet when they bought it in, when they didn't have it with them on the way out they got a huge bill for import duty based on a notional value (way inflated) plus a penalty of 100% of that amount. If it's worth importing it's worth doing properly.

Personally, in your price range, I think there are plenty of UK basses (both new and second hand) that would fit the bill. Also remember if there are any issues with the bass, a - the company is in the States so how are you going to get aftercare and b - if your relative is the purchaser of record then the contract and guarantee are with them, you have no rights with the supplier.

Steve
[/quote]

Couldn't have put it better

[oggiesnr]

Silly question, are you planning on visiting the States anyway or would this be an extra trip (OK with the advantage of seeing relatives). If the latter then you should add that to the cost of the bass.

Steve

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1379714433' post='2216226']
Silly question, are you planning on visiting the States anyway or would this be an extra trip (OK with the advantage of seeing relatives). If the latter then you should add that to the cost of the bass.

Steve
[/quote]

I would be going to look for a double bass but It would be very much like a holiday at the same time.

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379714707' post='2216229']

No one has still answered the question of how they would know the value of the bass?

[/quote]

YES THEY HAVE. You are legally obliged to declare the value. If they doubt you, they will estimate it on your behalf, and guess what, it will be an overestimate. As Bilbo said, they do this for a living.

I spent a sobering couple of hours at V&R talking about both the methods customs employ to ensure that musical instruments aren't imported without duty being paid and the penalties they can impose. After that, I wouldn't even bring in a plectrum without declaring it.

[Beedster]

And if anyone's bored discussing customs duty and how to avoid it and fancies expressing an opinion on double basses, I'd really appreciate some help at http://basschat.co.uk/topic/217228-some-advice-on-newish-dbs-please/

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379715763' post='2216242']
If I want to take my electric bass to New York for example, I would jump on a plane. (As the bass was already brought in the UK I wouldn't have to pay VAT on this as it has already been brought and paid for here, correct)

So if you take the same scenario.

Someone who is from and living in New York (full time) travels to England with their bass they have just brought whatever etc, they surely wouldn't have to pay VAT on this as they live in America and they would have receipts and they were visiting England. (They wouldn't have anything to declare because they're leaving their country)

Also this is all been done by person, it wouldn't be shipped. As you would be taking it as luggage.
[/quote]

Here you go

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1379714222' post='2216220']
Yup. As per my post earlier, they had to complete a carnet when they bought it in, when they didn't have it with them on the way out they got a huge bill for import duty based on a notional value (way inflated) plus a penalty of 100% of that amount. If it's worth importing it's worth doing properly.

Personally, in your price range, I think there are plenty of UK basses (both new and second hand) that would fit the bill. Also remember if there are any issues with the bass, a - the company is in the States so how are you going to get aftercare and b - if your relative is the purchaser of record then the contract and guarantee are with them, you have no rights with the supplier.

Steve
[/quote]

[Beedster]

[quote name='AndrewRichards' timestamp='1379716187' post='2216248']
Wasn't that thread relating to travelling an instruments in an entourage of musicians, not travelling a bass independently.
[/quote]

Yes of course, customs let individuals travelling independently break the law but not bands, orchestras or entourages, my mistake

[Beedster]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1379715412' post='2216237']
And if anyone's bored discussing customs duty and how to avoid it and fancies expressing an opinion on double basses, I'd really appreciate some help at [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/217228-some-advice-on-newish-dbs-please/"]http://basschat.co.u...ish-dbs-please/[/url]
[/quote]

In case anyone missed it