Finding the perfect double bass? (Bryant, Jay Haide, Upton) (£5,500) Limit.

[marvin spangles]

I have a bass that I got here in Ireland made by a Luthier from Oregon called Seth Kimmel. You can google him and check out the bass Gallery . Mine is the 3 rd avenue model. If I didn't need (want) a really good arco sound then I wouldn't have gone for such an expensive bass. For Pizz only work a quality hybrid bass well set up will give you everything you need. There's heaps of pros out there who play on good plys and hybrids.

[marvin spangles]

... The amplified sound which is what most of us rely on won't pick up the subtle nuances of an expensive bass. In many cases a cheaper ply or hybrid will amplify better than a very resonant carved which may have feedback issues ...

Edited September 29, 2013 by marvin spangles

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1380482223' post='2225998']
... The amplified sound which is what most of us rely on won't pick up the subtle nuances of an expensive bass. In many cases a cheaper ply or hybrid will amplify better than a very resonant carved which may have feedback issues ...
[/quote]

True something to consider.

[oggiesnr]

I play a breathed upon Antoni bass, my teacher has a much more expensive German bass. The sustain and quality of my E string is a hell of a lot better (a fact she admits) than hers. As I play a lot of stuff in G and Em that resonant E is great.

Start playing a lot of basses and find the one that sings for you. All musical instruments are (or should be) very personal, you have to be happy with the feel, the sound, the connection you can make with the instrument, the name on the instrument (unless you're planning on flipping it over on the basis of that name) is not the most important thing about it.

In my quest for a new acoustic guitar I've played over a hundred guitars, my latest melodeon was the result of playing fifty others. In the case of the guitar I still haven't found one that sings for me, the melodeon was mid priced, not anything like the most expensive (I tried them and they left me cold) but one I felt I could make music on.

The fun is in the chase but it can only be done by playing instruments.

Stev

[TheG]

Hi SevenSeas

Around a year ago I was hunting for a bass in exactly the same price range as yours. I definitely wanted an old bass not a new one. I went round a load of shops etc Stafford, Nottingham, Birmingham, London and tried out around 40 basses altogether. I also went to see BassAce and tried his basses you talk of (very kind of him). In the end out of 40 basses only 3 spoke to me (that were for sale). Thomas Martin, Jay Haide and an unknown Hungarian make bass. The other 37 weren't bad basses obviously they just weren't right for me.

In the end it was between a Martin and the Jay Haide Queniol. I tried the Martin Bass by going to their workshops which were pretty impressive and very friendly. His basses in this price range are bought in from Hungary unvarnished with the front and back only tacked on with a bit of superglue so they can easily be got off. They then work on the body, refining it. Then make the rest of it it to your specification ie colour, hardware, bridge, strings, etc, etc. George said it would be the same price for whatever you wanted (Im sure it must be within reason). He said because they get them in ready made it halves their costs which they then pass on to the customer. So they would treat you the same as someone buying a fully carved instrument (ie you get to pick colour, hardware, bridge, strings etc, etc). The only difference to them is that they have half the work done for them by the Hungarians. I was very impressed with the whole set up. They do 3 sizes by the way large (full size), medium (3/4) and small (solo?) - cant remember the correct names sorry but I liked the medium sized on best. The aftercare George described sounded excellent. ie after you buy they would expect you to come back for tweaks after you and it had settled in.

Finally it was between the Jay Haide and the Thomas Martin.

In the end I took the Jay Haide out on approval and really liked it. Since trying out the Thomas Martin it had been sold and so I couldn't try it again so decided to go with the Jay Haide seen as I really liked it and never looked back.

The Jay Haide is excellent. Again I never went out to buy a new bass (2007 practically brand new) but none of the others in my price range suited me regardless of the age. I think the player must be matched to the bass.

One of the best shops for choice of good instruments was Thwaites in London.



[b]You can read previous posts on my exploits over a year ago here:[/b]

(How To By A Bass)
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/171751-how-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url]


and here:
(Where To Buy A Bass)
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176717-where-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url]



One of the bass teachers at Birmingham Conservatoire is Arnie Somogyi a Great player himself. In November he's doing "Arnie Somogyi Mingus Project" in the CBSO Centre in Birmingham (November) which should be excellent. I think its a workshop and show. Anyway he has been known to buy in basses from Hungary and pass them on to students after he has finished with them. My point is that if you are going to be working with a teacher they can occasionally put you in touch with the right leads to buy the correct bass for you after hearing you play and working with you. Just another idea.

Its a long way but if you are up in The Midlands way anytime you are more then welcome to come round for a try and a chat.

Edited September 29, 2013 by TheG

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380491157' post='2226209']
Hi SevenSeas

Around a year ago I was hunting for a bass in exactly the same price range as yours. I definitely wanted an old bass not a new one. I went round a load of shops etc Stafford, Nottingham, Birmingham, London and tried out around 40 basses altogether. I also went to see BassAce and tried his basses you talk of (very kind of him). In the end out of 40 basses only 3 spoke to me (that were for sale). Thomas Martin, Jay Haide and an unknown Hungarian make bass. The other 37 weren't bad basses obviously they just weren't right for me.

In the end it was between a Martin and the Jay Haide Queniol. I tried the Martin Bass by going to their workshops which were pretty impressive and very friendly. His basses in this price range are bought in from Hungary unvarnished with the front and back only tacked on with a bit of superglue so they can easily be got off. They then work on the body, refining it. Then make the rest of it it to your specification ie colour, hardware, bridge, strings, etc, etc. George said it would be the same price for whatever you wanted (Im sure it must be within reason). He said because they get them in ready made it halves their costs which they then pass on to the customer. So they would treat you the same as someone buying a fully carved instrument (ie you get to pick colour, hardware, bridge, strings etc, etc). The only difference to them is that they have half the work done for them by the Hungarians. I was very impressed with the whole set up. They do 3 sizes by the way large (full size), medium (3/4) and small (solo?) - cant remember the correct names sorry but I liked the medium sized on best. The aftercare George described sounded excellent. ie after you buy they would expect you to come back for tweaks after you and it had settled in.

Finally it was between the Jay Haide and the Thomas Martin.

In the end I took the Jay Haide out on approval and really liked it. Since trying out the Thomas Martin it had been sold and so I couldn't try it again so decided to go with the Jay Haide seen as I really liked it and never looked back.

The Jay Haide is excellent. Again I never went out to buy a new bass (2007 practically brand new) but none of the others in my price range suited me regardless of the age. I think the player must be matched to the bass.

One of the best shops for choice of good instruments was Thwaites in London.



[b]You can read previous posts on my exploits over a year ago here:[/b]

(How To By A Bass)
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/171751-how-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url]


and here:
(Where To Buy A Bass)
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176717-where-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url]



One of the bass teachers at Birmingham Conservatoire is Arnie Somogyi a Great player himself. In November he's doing "Arnie Somogyi Mingus Project" in the CBSO Centre in Birmingham (November) which should be excellent. I think its a workshop and show. Anyway he has been known to buy in basses from Hungary and pass them on to students after he has finished with them. My point is that if you are going to be working with a teacher they can occasionally put you in touch with the right leads to buy the correct bass for you after hearing you play and working with you. Just another idea.

Its a long way but if you are up in The Midlands way anytime you are more then welcome to come round for a try and a chat.
[/quote]

Hi 'The G'

I have read your thread previously, it's great that you went and tried out all those basses and finally found the perfect bass for you.

It's funny you mention Arnie, as I had a lesson with him not too long ago (6weeks) as I'm applying to Birmingham Conservatoire, I really want a place (fingers crossed) I'm based quite a way from Birmingham but it isn't too far. (4-5 hours)

Judging from your opinion on Thomas Martin I better go and definitely try out some of his basses. (I'm guessing he has some already in stock to try for his 3/4 concert models) the only think is if you ordered a bass from him and it was made (partly) by them in the workshop, surely you wouldn't be able to try the exact bass until it was made. (so no try before you buy?) the customisation for what I want does sound excellent. The price was 6k which is a little over my budget but stretchable.

I have had quite a few people mention the Jay Haide as well, someone who had a Bryant recommended the Jay Haide from Martin Bailey, I think the Contrabass shop have one for the same price.

I also know another double bassist who studied at Birmingham and got his bass from Thwaites, a fantastic player called Nick. (I mean insanely good) I thought I better check, are you him? (or is this just a coincidence)

Cheers,

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='SevenSeas' timestamp='1380493259' post='2226258']
Hi 'The G'

I have read your thread previously, it's great that you went and tried out all those basses and finally found the perfect bass for you.

It's funny you mention Arnie, as I had a lesson with him not too long ago (6weeks) as I'm applying to Birmingham Conservatoire, I really want a place (fingers crossed) I'm based quite a way from Birmingham but it isn't too far. (4-5 hours)

Judging from your opinion on Thomas Martin I better go and definitely try out some of his basses. (I'm guessing he has some already in stock to try for his 3/4 concert models) the only think is if you ordered a bass from him and it was made (partly) by them in the workshop, surely you wouldn't be able to try the exact bass until it was made. (so no try before you buy?) the customisation for what I want does sound excellent. The price was 6k which is a little over my budget but stretchable.

I have had quite a few people mention the Jay Haide as well, someone who had a Bryant recommended the Jay Haide from Martin Bailey, I think the Contrabass shop have one for the same price.

I also know another double bassist who studied at Birmingham and got his bass from Thwaites, a fantastic player called Nick. (I mean insanely good) I thought I better check, are you him? (or is this just a coincidence)

Cheers,
[/quote]

Forgot to add, did you get to try out a Bryant on your search?

[TheG]

Sorry Im not Nick (Im a Mike).

Just remembering George Martin did say to me if I ordered a bass to my specification and didn't like it I was under no obligation to still buy it. Because he could always sell it on regardless. Cool.

Also remember he said Zoltan Dekany had a Thomas Martin himself.

Birmingham Conservatoire Jazz Course is excellent judging by the players that come out. Most of but not all of the teachers travel up from London as well.

Also in one of the replies I got in a previous post Bilbo said "Personally, I would rather just buy one and spend time playing it instead of driving around the country looking at them." which has stayed in my mind since seeing it. I still think I did the right thing driving round but then again I think Bilbos words seem to have some substance too. Especially as now i am experimenting with different sounds on the same bass currently.

Edited September 29, 2013 by TheG

[TheG]

I recently started practicing a little on a bass that I had previously decided had a bad sound although other people seemed to really like it. I was wondering if it was my ears that were different. Anyway with a little experimentation it has started sounding different to what I had originally thought. Still nothing on the Jay Haide though but still a significant discovery for me.


I did go to Paul Bryants house but non of the basses there were suited to me. Thats not to say Bryants are inferior as BassAce's Bryant sounded excellent. Bargain prices too as mentioned above.

Edited September 29, 2013 by TheG

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380495059' post='2226288']
Sorry Im not Nick (Im a Mike).

Just remembering George Martin did say to me if I ordered a bass to my specification and didn't like it I was under no obligation to still buy it. Because he could always sell it on regardless. Cool.

Also remember he said Zoltan Dekany had a Thomas Martin himself.

Birmingham Conservatoire Jazz Course is excellent judging by the players that come out. Most of but not all of the teachers travel up from London as well.

Also in one of the replies I got in a previous post Bilbo said "Personally, I would rather just buy one and spend time playing it instead of driving around the country looking at them." which has stayed in my mind since seeing it. I still think I did the right thing driving round but then again I think Bilbos words seem to have some substance too. Especially as now i am experimenting with different sounds on the same bass currently.
[/quote]

Hi Mike, thats cool. I'm sure you're just as great.

Thats a very good offer from George, I don't know if I'd feel extremely bad asking them to build me a bass and then not liking it, I suppose their models must be similar. (i'e the same concert model) even though each bass is individual to an extent.

Yep Zoltan has the 3/4 Concert Model and he is ridiculously good, so they must be good jazz basses. (although of course as Bilbo said, playing the bass is the main thing and your sound will be mostly from you as a bass player not from the bass) Having said that, if I was spending 5-6k I'd definitely want to find the right bass, so I can completely understand your situation.

Thwaites have a few really old german basses which might be also something to try out, how did you find them to deal with? (they have lots of basses in stock)

True thats interesting about the Bryant.

Also yes Birmingham does look fantastic, whether I get a place or not. (thats a whole different ball game)

So many options, have to wait until the end of the year though!

Edited September 30, 2013 by SevenSeas

[TheG]

The offer from George was genuine and no big thing to him at all. I don't think they make loads of them and then have a surplus lying around. I went and tried one out but the next time I went it was sold and they didn't have another to try. So if they made one up specially they would still be able to sell it on no problem at all or have it as a demo model which gets played it a bit from people trying it out etc. Obviously thats if you didn't order a pink one with green spots.

Thwaites were fine and down to earth. One thing I noticed with practically all the shops, was when I said "This bass is Great but the E string seems dead", etc nobody really offered any explanation or opinion as to why or what could be done. It didn't really seem like it was a dead string either to me. I could only assume that they purposefully have no opinion as it will sound different with each player????? I don't know! Maybe my finger was dead or something?

I think all of the basses mentioned here have good reputations. I don't think you need to find the best make as they are all good. Just the right one that suits you.

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380533325' post='2226545']
The offer from George was genuine and no big thing to him at all. I don't think they make loads of them and then have a surplus lying around. I went and tried one out but the next time I went it was sold and they didn't have another to try. So if they made one up specially they would still be able to sell it on no problem at all or have it as a demo model which gets played it a bit from people trying it out etc. Obviously thats if you didn't order a pink one with green spots.

Thwaites were fine and down to earth. One thing I noticed with practically all the shops, was when I said "This bass is Great but the E string seems dead", etc nobody really offered any explanation or opinion as to why or what could be done. It didn't really seem like it was a dead string either to me. I could only assume that they purposefully have no opinion as it will sound different with each player????? I don't know! Maybe my finger was dead or something?

I think all of the basses mentioned here have good reputations. I don't think you need to find the best make as they are all good. Just the right one that suits you.
[/quote]

"I think all of the basses mentioned here have good reputations. I don't think you need to find the best make as they are all good. Just the right one that suits you."

This is spot on, I know the bass models in my price range which would be good basses. I just need to try them and find the one which fits me as a player.

[ubassman]

Enough said !

[FLoydElgar]

(y)

[bassace]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380533325' post='2226545']

Thwaites were fine and down to earth. One thing I noticed with practically all the shops, was when I said "This bass is Great but the E string seems dead", etc nobody really offered any explanation or opinion as to why or what could be done. It didn't really seem like it was a dead string either to me. I could only assume that they purposefully have no opinion as it will sound different with each player????? I don't know! Maybe my finger was dead or something?

[/quote]

You'll find many basses with a disappointing E but don't be too concerned about this. The bass will most likely amp up very well. A really strong E could amp up too well and you'll have to apply an HPF or eq it out somehow. More important is to find a bass with a strong G that stays well right up to thumb position.

Mr Boring alert, I may just tell you an E string story if you tempt me.

[TheG]

We want the E string story! We want the E string story!

[ubassman]

Could I suggest a new thread on that - a dull E is something that a lot of people might be interested in

[fatgoogle]

This is making me quite jealous actually. I wouldnt mind 5500 to go spend on a bass. Anyone feeling rich.

[SevenSeas]

I'm more than happy for you to sabotage the thread, I'd quite like to hear the E string story!

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1380573653' post='2227418']
This is making me quite jealous actually. I wouldnt mind 5500 to go spend on a bass. Anyone feeling rich.
[/quote]

I wish, I'm going to buy the bass and remember what having no money feels like... but i'll have a new double bass which will be 1000000 billion times worth it.

[ubassman]

[quote name='SevenSeas' timestamp='1380583316' post='2227577']
I'm more than happy for you to sabotage the thread, I'd quite like to hear the E string story!
[/quote]

...theres a new thread opened for that

[Beedster]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380495059' post='2226288']
Also in one of the replies I got in a previous post Bilbo said "Personally, I would rather just buy one and spend time playing it instead of driving around the country looking at them." which has stayed in my mind since seeing it. I still think I did the right thing driving round but then again I think Bilbos words seem to have some substance too. Especially as now i am experimenting with different sounds on the same bass currently.
[/quote]

I'm with Bilbo, or at least, that's what I've decided to do. Given that my own bass tends to sound and play differently depending how tired I am, what sort of mood I'm in etc (of course, [i]it [/i]doesn't play or sound differently, I just find it easier or harder to play, or like its sound to a greater or lesser degree depending on energy, mood etc), I doubt I could make a reliable evaluation if going from shop to shop, and all the shops that have lots appear to also charge a lot more. So, I took a leap, went on gut instinct and faith in what a few others had said about this particular instrument, and bought one

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1380636401' post='2228220']
I'm with Bilbo, or at least, that's what I've decided to do. Given that my own bass tends to sound and play differently depending how tired I am, what sort of mood I'm in etc (of course, [i]it [/i]doesn't play or sound differently, I just find it easier or harder to play, or like its sound to a greater or lesser degree depending on energy, mood etc), I doubt I could make a reliable evaluation if going from shop to shop, and all the shops that have lots appear to also charge a lot more. So, I took a leap, went on gut instinct and faith in what a few others had said about this particular instrument, and bought one
[/quote]

Glad you found the right bass for you.

I'm speaking to a seller at the moment, who's selling an Akos Balaz bass for a reasonable price but I still need to try out basses in the UK, I spoke to Thwaites today and they seemed very nice and very helpful.

I am planning on visiting the shop soon and trying everything between 5k and 10k. They have a scheme which helps players between 18-25 borrow money (interest free) for new instruments. So I could go into the shop try out all the basses in the range, try to to think about price and just pick the bass which I find suits me best. Which means I have a lot more choice i'e the Thomas Martin model for 10.5k is the top of my range.

Of course there are lots of options and it does mean I would have to pay back £4500 over 18months which yes is a big commitment but since I have another year that I'm working before I plan (and if I get in) going to music college it's an option.

I can completely understand Bilbos point but at the same time when you spend so much money I think if I didn't try out as many basses as possible I would regret it.

Situation completely change for example the first electric bass I brought when I was about 13 (okay 2nd instrument... the 1st was a westfield bass for about £80 which is in pieces in the garage but that is another story) I brought initially on looks and model. (A completely stupid thing to do but at thirteen I didn't have a clue) and it was a Fender Aerodyne J/P Bass and it turns out it's the nicest bass I have and it was £800. (less than half the price of my Stingray) and still is the nicest bass I play. I brought a Musicman Stingray several years ago and I tried out a few basses but not enough and yes it's a nice bass but I still wish I spend more time trying out more instruments and wish I went for a top of the range jazz but thats what I wanted at the time.

This is potentially 3?4?5? times more expensive. So trying out as many basses as possible is definitely worth it, especially as double basses are so individual.

[TheG]

I think trying out a load of basses good and bad can make you more aware of what is good and bad in a bass. Knowing a bad bass sound is just as valuable to know.

I have seen basses for sale on here by respected BCers and then the bass condition/sound backed up by other respected BCers. That is a good recommendation in my eyes/ears especially if both BCers play the same style as yourself.

So there is no right or wrong way just the way your gut tells you. When I started looking at basses I didn't even know what I wanted really. I did have a concept in my head but I'd never played that many different basses.

SevenSeas wasn't the Thomas Martin bass 10k plus vat = 12k?

Also when people start music college they don't necessarily have expensive basses such as this (not sure about classical?) Some don't even own a double bass if they start on electric.

[SevenSeas]

Went to Thwaites yesterday, they picked out all the instruments I should try, all of them sounded great but their were two that I picked up and thought yes!
Still trying out more basses, so i'm still visiting different sellers.