Does playing covers sap your imagination and playing

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='mewsie' post='229775' date='Jun 30 2008, 03:21 PM']is it monday?

x[/quote]
and fellasses :brow:

[mcgraham]

To be honest, I'm struggling to see what the debate is about... but in the spirit of the thread.

95% of audiences, and 95% of people in audiences, are not there to intently listen to the music being performed in the way that the creativity that we are discussing actually matters. At most events all over the world, music is a background thing, i.e. the audience are there for another reason, and the music is serving that reason; e.g. dancing, background music at a pub, atmospheric chillouts, muzaq, to set a mood in shops etc. If you pull out a stonkingly massive bass fill, one of two things will happen: they will notice and be distracted from the reason they are there (not always bad); or - they don't notice, therefore nothing changes. If they [i]do[/i] notice, you may have completely broken the mood for them; on the other hand they may love you for it. Sadly (and here's the kicker) the minimum of what constitutes a stonkingly massive bass (or any other instrument!) fill in most people's eyes is utter dung, or at least boringly mediocre, in the eyes of someone who truly appreciates music.

I know what my point is but I'm finding it to be hard to get into words... In short, I think the reality is, that the creativity that some of us have been yearning for in this thread, is received no differently by the masses than the regurgitated slop we are abhorring, if it is received at all... and the masses are who ultimately choose to pay us for our work (I steer clear of the word art at this point ).

Does that make sense?

Mark

[Bilbo]

I agree mcgraham. Where I differ from others is that I see that fact as an opportunity (this is not about my wanting to do 10 minute jazz odysseys). If they aren't really listening, why are we pandering to some bizarre collective sense of 'what they want'? If you are going to do covers, do interesting covers, do covers that stimulate AND educate (there are 1,000s), do covers that challenge people a little or a lot but do it knowingly. What I think people should NOT do is to take the top 20 covers of all time and just regurgitate them year on year on year (tweaked or otherwise).

Last week I did 'Pick Up The Pieces' by the Average White Band (1974), 'Street Life' by the Crusaders (1979), 'Young Hearts Run Free' (1976), 'For Once In My Life' (1968), 'Knock On Wood' (1978) etc, etc. You know the drill. There must have been a million great (and very popular ) songs that have seen the light of day during the 20 to 30 years that have passed since then and yet we all keep trotting out these pliocene relics. I have this discussion all the time with punters (not AT gigs but in work, social settings etc) and the general consensus is that these types of bands are tired and dated. I also know a lot of people think that these endless tribute bands are a joke without a punchline. I can't argue with them.

Edited June 30, 2008 by bilbo230763

[ianrunci]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='229830' date='Jun 30 2008, 04:28 PM']I agree mcgraham. Where I differ from others is that I see that fact as an opportunity (this is not about my wanting to do 10 minute jazz odysseys). If they aren't really listening, why are we pandering to some bizarre collective sense of 'what they want'? If you are going to do covers, do interesting covers, do covers that stimulate AND educate (there are 1,000s), do covers that challenge people a little or a lot but do it knowingly. What I think people should NOT do is to take the top 20 covers of all time and just regurgitate them year on year on year (tweaked or otherwise).

Last week I did 'Pick Up The Pieces' by the Average White Band (1974), 'Street Life' by the Crusaders (1979), 'Young Hearts Run Free' (1976), 'For Once In My Life' (1968), 'Knock On Wood' (1978) etc, etc. You know the drill. There must have been a million great (and very popular ) songs that have seen the light of day during the 20 to 30 years that have passed since then and yet we all keep trotting out these pliocene relics. I have this discussion all the time with punters (not AT gigs but in work, social settings etc) and the general consensus is that these types of bands are tired and dated. I also know a lot of people think that these endless tribute bands are a joke without a punchline. I can't argue with them.[/quote]

See the problem I have with that is that I would really enjoy doing something new and unusual but everytime we drop a well used tune we get someone complaining that we haven't played it. often its the person who booked us and in the interests of business e.g getting a return gig we reinstate it.

You can't really educate people who don't want to be educated. You will always get a couple of people in the crowd that would love something new but the vast majority do in actual fact want the same old songs over and over again.

Lets face it the majority of people at weddings and parties will be out in a club dancing to computer generated sh*te the following week. How can you musically educate people like that?

I bet everyone in a cover band has been asked at some poin t can they play something by someone like Take that or westlife or even the spice girls. I have been asked numerous times while playing in a guitar based rock covers band if we know Heaven or Boys of summer by DJ Sammy

And it could be worse, you have trotted out several tunes from the 70s but there are still cover bands out there playing fifties rock n roll

[thisnameistaken]

We seem to have drifted from the original argument somewhat, and back on to the ire-inducing discussion of whether we should be publicly flogging people for playing Mustang Sally.

Maybe we could set up a fund to buy the rights to as many of these tunes as possible, so we can ensure that nobody is ever allowed to play them again? Then you could turn around to those punters and say "Sorry mate, the PRS would have me banged to rights, it's more than my job's worth"...

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='229914' date='Jun 30 2008, 06:24 PM']We seem to have drifted from the original argument somewhat, and back on to the ire-inducing discussion of whether we should be publicly flogging people for playing Mustang Sally.

Maybe we could set up a fund to buy the rights to as many of these tunes as possible, so we can ensure that nobody is ever allowed to play them again? Then you could turn around to those punters and say "Sorry mate, the PRS would have me banged to rights, it's more than my job's worth"... [/quote]
I don't think you can actually stop people performing your material
sorry to be such a dullard in the face of your joshing.

Edited June 30, 2008 by jakesbass

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='229917' date='Jun 30 2008, 06:29 PM']I don't think you can actually stop people performing your material
sorry to be such a dullard in the face of your joshing.[/quote]

I'm not sure, but I remember Russ Abbott famously bought the rights to his song "Atmosphere" to stop it being played on the radio because he thought it was so sh*t - he went up in my estimation when I heard about that.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='229936' date='Jun 30 2008, 06:49 PM']I'm not sure, but I remember Russ Abbott famously bought the rights to his song "Atmosphere" to stop it being played on the radio because he thought it was so sh*t - he went up in my estimation when I heard about that.[/quote]
I'm sure you're right about that, I meant playing songs live

[ianrunci]

I suppose we will have to accept the fact there is no one answer to the original posters question. Everyone will have their own view and each view will be right in its own way, So the answer must be

Replying to Does playing covers sap your imagination and playing? Yes but no

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229986' date='Jun 30 2008, 08:01 PM']Replying to Does playing covers sap your imagination and playing? Yes but no [/quote]
No mate totally wrong...

it's no but yes

[ianrunci]

Ok can we settle on "not definately maybe"

[Count Bassy]

Mustang Sally, Pickup the Peices, Can't get enough, et al are popular for a reason. They are good songs/tunes. They may not be overly clever or complicated, but people enjoy hearing them, which at the end of the day is (IMHO) what music is about !

To bring in another food (well, drink) analogy. You sometimes come across these beer festivals that specialise in wierd and obscure (and often stupidly strong) beers. When you try these beers it's all to clear why they remain obscure!. Mustang Sally is a GreeneKing IPA or London Pride type tune. Many original tunes fall into the old Peculiar/Santas Knob class of tune. Very interesting, but not actually drunk that much.

Having said that more power to those people creating originals, that's where tomorrow's classics will come from. If an original song writer is very lucky he might even come up with something as popular as Mustang Sally himself! (although they might then slag it off for being too popular)!!

Edited June 30, 2008 by Clive Thorne

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229986' date='Jun 30 2008, 08:01 PM']I suppose we will have to accept the fact there is no one answer to the original posters question. Everyone will have their own view and each view will be right in its own way,[/quote]

What?

What sort of a conclusion is that?

Sorry but I'm not going through nine pages of argument to settle on something so pathetically fluffy as "We're all right in our own way".

I'm right and you're wrong, in our own way. How about that?

[ianrunci]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='230047' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:03 PM']What?

What sort of a conclusion is that?

Sorry but I'm not going through nine pages of argument to settle on something so pathetically fluffy as "We're all right in our own way".

I'm right and you're wrong, in our own way. How about that?[/quote]

but you can't be right if I am can you. So the logical conclusion is I'm right..................IMHO

[Bilbo]

[url="http://www.kayona.co.uk/"]http://www.kayona.co.uk/[/url]

Watch the dvd - its me selling out!

[Jase]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='248965' date='Jul 27 2008, 02:58 PM'][url="http://www.kayona.co.uk/"]http://www.kayona.co.uk/[/url]

Watch the dvd - its me selling out! [/quote]


...cool!

[Pbassred]

I am always amazed how the most pathetic differences create the longest threads. In a sound reproduction forum it would be "what's the best mic" Here it's; "What strings do I use" .... or this one!

Playing in a covers band does not stretch your imagination, but it does streach your fingers. In other words I can play lines I never used to.
It doesn't take me to hollywood but it does take me to places I would never see and to meet people I would never have met.

SO;
Can I and the rest of my band write arrainge and learn more than one new song in a month?
If thats all they do too, will we learn anything else from each other?
Do you play once a week, the same songs, with the same 4 people, for 5 years, and do nothing else.

Or grab every oportunity to excercise and develop my skills, and meet the best people?

All I can tell you from experience is that I USED to play in one originals band after another. They take ages to start and misplaced ego abound. Interest waines quickly. Not so In covers bands. Sets are longer, there is money at stake, and you can't hide behind the fact that the audience doesn't know the songs. So you need to learn things that you might not have concidered. I find people now regard me as a pro - including originals bands.

Because of my involvement in covers, I can do things in originals bands that I never could do before, which make the originals band stronger, and I get the oportunity to work with better talent. Everyone wins.

The snobery is miplaced

Edited July 28, 2008 by Pbassred

[ARGH]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='248965' date='Jul 27 2008, 03:58 PM'][url="http://www.kayona.co.uk/"]http://www.kayona.co.uk/[/url]

Watch the dvd - its me selling out! [/quote]
Do you need a dep?

[ARGH]

Covers taught me to read charts,It also taught me how to fix on the fly a f***up,what good equipment was and was not (If its plastic,its going to break),its also taught stamina.

I miss playing in an originals band though,but theres another thread about that....

Edited July 28, 2008 by ARGH

[MananaMan]

I'm not touching this one (mostly)... BUT........
Why is it that there is this kind of assumption that you only learn things like good gear, fixing foul-ups, stage presence etc. from playing in cover bands?

I've learned (the hard way) all or most of these things from originals band s I've played in. When I was doing covers regularly I found iI didn't really care what gear I was using as I didn't really think that much about my sound etc. as my sound had no place in Bad Company...

I certainly agree with the stamina thing though, and would add audience control (using pacing in the song order / set list) to that list.

I suppose the thing about doing the whole covers thang is down to how you approach it. If you're at a loose end musically I can imagine it being quite creatively stimulating to go play a totally different style of music - if you've been doing prog-jazz, go play some bad-ass rock and roll and riff out, if you've been doing the indie-schmindy thing, go play some funk.