51m0n Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Whatever you've got for PA, learn how to mic stuff up with the kit you've got, a single drum overhead mic rather than a snare mic can sound a lot better in a lot of circumstances than all the fancy close mics in the world, add a kick mic and you are golden for any larger PA gig. Learn how to set up a graphic to cut out feedback - you'll need a reasonalbe 31 band graphic to do this, but its worth it, you can get twice the vocal level, or half the chance of inadvertant feedback when this is set right. Get a wireless so you can listen out front to the whole band whilst wandering about, it doesnt matter how great it sounds on stage if the FOH sounds like toilet! Have funm and doint let anyone off moving kit, especially the vocalist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1379954273' post='2218695'] Learn how to set up a graphic to cut out feedback - you'll need a reasonalbe 31 band graphic to do this, but its worth it, you can get twice the vocal level, or half the chance of inadvertant feedback when this is set. [/quote] Yep, this - and don't forget to ring out the system looking for problem feedback frequencies. There is a iPhone app that can help with this - a systems analyser. Get the system to feedback at volume, identify the frequency on the iPhone then pull the problem frequency down on the graphic. Works a treat. Or get a good quality feedback destroyer, we have 2 dbx's, one for the FOH, the other for the monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1379878721' post='2217759'] Although if you take your time and buy second hand you can get a very reasonable PA for a lot less than that. Depends on what type of gigs you're doing. You don't need a £5K PA for the average pub gig! IMO of course!. And a useful hint I was given was to always set up the mix before you start adding any effects, reverb and stuff (hate reverb myself). [/quote] He did say small/medium venues though. I think band tend to scimp on P.A's ... and for the few pubs we do, we will just put the tops up... but there are tops and TOPS. You can count the band round here with GOOD P.A's on one hand, tbh...and the vox sounding as good as poss is something to aim for. If I was doing it on the cheap... I'd go for a decent Soundcraft mixer into Martin cabs...with decent power amps, That will cost you about £1500 min if you are very lucky to find them..and isn't likely to be the lightest... Be careful with SH gear that will have had a pasting but can't really take it. If I've heard one band with a blown P.A ..then I heard a fair few. Sorry, soapbox here... but I really don't understanhd bands rehearsing to get it right, and then sound poor ..and it isn't the playing. It is core sounds being poor..... and if you get these right, the sound checks are so much easierf..AND faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 [quote name='geoffbyrne' timestamp='1379943926' post='2218505'] I went to see a band in a pub not far from here a few months ago. It was the kind of place where you'd get about 200 folk into if you pushed them hard - think Tokyo Underground..... Anyway, the said band miked up the drums & put the bass drum up so high that every time the drummer hit it, my seat literally rose up. There were about 60 people in that night. Didn't stay long. It was painful. Quite a few others said the same. [/quote] I've been to a few of those (but not for long). What IS the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1379958561' post='2218774'] He did say small/medium venues though. I think band tend to scimp on P.A's ... and for the few pubs we do, we will just put the tops up... but there are tops and TOPS. You can count the band round here with GOOD P.A's on one hand, tbh...and the vox sounding as good as poss is something to aim for. If I was doing it on the cheap... I'd go for a decent Soundcraft mixer into Martin cabs...with decent power amps, That will cost you about £1500 min if you are very lucky to find them..and isn't likely to be the lightest... Be careful with SH gear that will have had a pasting but can't really take it. If I've heard one band with a blown P.A ..then I heard a fair few. Sorry, soapbox here... but I really don't understanhd bands rehearsing to get it right, and then sound poor ..and it isn't the playing. It is core sounds being poor..... and if you get these right, the sound checks are so much easierf..AND faster. [/quote] I'm not really arguing with you. In principle go for the best PA you can afford (up to a point), but for some bands £5K is out of the question, especially if your just starting up, and you can get away with a lot less if you're careful (as you illustrate yourself). I'm not quite sure what constitutes a 'small' venue, or when that becomes 'medium', but I would say that most pubs (round here at least) would count as small if you're playing in the main bar areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsmith1 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 The Paul White book is really useful to get you up to speed. I would like to list out some key principles:[list] [*]Vocals are king - they must be clear, and at the right level in the Front Of House (FOH) sound [*]Do not get too loud - however, drums (and drummers) cannot always turn down - but then everything else gets louder to get over the drums [*]Gain structure on mics - when people soundcheck they don't sing as loud as they do in their fav song in set 2 - so make allowances - if gain too strong you will get distortion [*]Positioning of mics, monitors, FOH speakers - bad positioning leads to feedback - but always a compromise in pubs and small venues [*]Get people to learn how to use a mic, coil cables [*]Start with the premise that EQ is flat and make small adjustments if necessary - cutting EQ is better than increasing [*]Try to keep monitors as quiet as possible but vocalists need to hear themselves - but not like when practising at home - good monitor mix gives vocalists confidence leading to better performance [*]Draw a diagram showing all the kit, all the connections - then you have a plan to work towards when setting up; if you change things keep the plan up to date. Use colour-coded leads or dabs of colour on connectors and sockets to help identify what goes where - helps you get the rest of the band to help set up [*]If you play your socks off but the PA (and rest of the sound) sounds rubbish - then the audience will perceive you as rubbish; [*]If you play rubbish but sound is great - they will still think that you are rubbish...but.... [*]If you have great sound and play well then you are the bees knees! [/list] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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