help - compression, overdrive and fuzz

[Fizzer]

Hi All.
I'm running a stingray (4 string) through an ampeg PF500 with 1x15 cab.
I really like the compressor/drive sound on the pf500 but I am finding I have a couple of problems.
Because of the different dynamics in our set, some songs need more oomph than others and I find myself wishing that the pf500 had a couple of switchable channels. (and I'm fddling with the amp between songs)

I'm an effects n00b, I've resolutely avoided complicating things so far, so please forgive my naive questions.

First up, overdrive. I've had a listen to a few online demo's of various pedals and the tech21 sansamp seems to come closest to the sound from my ampeg overdrive. Would you agree? I've borrowed a single chanel version of it from a friend so will get a chance to road test it tomorrow. Any advice on setup?

Compression - I play in quite a stacato way on some of our tunes. I really like using a high compressor setting for this because of the great attack (on/off) sound it gives. In other songs I need a softer, more dynamic sound, so would likea switchable compressor pedal. What pedal would be similar to the PF? Also, am I correct if I assume compression would go before overdrive?

Fuzz - I have a EHX Big Muff PI too which I've also played around with. It makes some... interesting... noises. I haven't been kicked out of the band yet for using it. I found that (to me at least) the compressor on the amp kind of kills the muff sound - this made me think that the compressor needs to be before the muff. Is that right?

I'm not thinking of having the sansamp and muff on at the same time.

I think that's it. Forgive me if I'm talking complete b*llocks. just need a good starting point.

[xgsjx]

From what's been said on here, the Sansamp does a rather good Ampeg sound.
The Big Muff is a popular pedal with a lot of bassists (& guitarists). Dirt is kind of a form of compression on the sound, so compressing it further with the compressor set high is gonna completely change the sound. There's a lot of good dirt pedals out there, have a look a some of the threads on here.

I couldn't advise you on a compressor as I don't use one, but there's no correct place for any pedal order, just what you like. I leave compression to the sound engineer to decide if it's needed.

Best advice I can give is to try things out & use your ears. Have fun.

[elephantgrey]

If you want your amp to distort on some songs, but then want it to not distort for other songs, how about a simple boost pedal? You can keep it off on the songs that you want quieter, and then turn it on to up the signal into your amp, overdriving it?

PS. I am sorry about any spelling errors, im using my girlfriends laptop, which is trying to spellcheck in polish not english.

[bakerster135]

Tech 21 VT Bass or Catalinbread SFT, if you're looking for Ampeg grit.

I've got a Boss CS-2 for compression, if you can find one cheap I'd well recommend it! (N.B. The Boss CS-3 is not the same, and is not good on bass!...).

[Fizzer]

The VT over the BDDI?

[bakerster135]

Yeah. I think the BDDI is more versatile than just an overdrive pedal, but the VT is a lot better as an overdrive pedal (if that makes any sense!...).

[iD Entity]

The Sansamp BDDI is a great piece of kit, being able to save different setting and hooks you up with a DI. Definitely +1 vote for an all round overdrive.

For compressor, this guy goes into depths that few have the tenacity to attend:
http://www.ovnilab.com/

I have a big muff pi as well, and never really found the sound to my liking. It kind of buzzes itself into the background, with weak definition, even with switches turned. I did find a bizarre setting where it became a sweet boost pedal when chained in a certain way... was kind of surprising. But, using an IE Oxide now, it REALLY cuts and offers serious presence. I don't find it as diverse as some people, so mileage varies. And in my experience it needs to be first in the signal chain or it sounds dead. Even so, my search continues on this front for the perfect Fuzz.

[Fizzer]

Bakerster: yes that makes perfect sense. Overdrive is what I'm after I've read that the VT pedal can sound like a fliptop OR an SVT depending on settings. Looking forward to finding out. +++ I have this loaner pedal to compare with.

Thank you all so much for the advice. I have been quite impulsive and bought a VT delux on ebay. 1 week old (supposedly) £180. Quite pleased with that. Not sure it's going to arrive in time for this evening though.

I'm also wondering if I got the correct cab (1x15) when perhaps a 2x10 would have cut through more.

ID: I was really overwhelmed by the Pi at first, getting it to sit in the mix nicely is quite hard. However dialing in 'sustain' with your foot whilst playing is pretty entertaining.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Fizzer' timestamp='1380009580' post='2219310']
I'm also wondering if I got the correct cab (1x15) when perhaps a 2x10 would have cut through more.
[/quote]

That's down to the cab design & what driver is used. Speaker diameter has no bearing on the tone.

Mess about with your bass' tone controls & the amp's EQ, try cutting the lows a little & boosting the mids a small amount & see if that helps. EQ is there to help you get the sound you want (it's better to cut frequencies rather than boost). Quite often what sounds good at home doesn't cut it when the band start to play, so try doing this either at rehearsal or if you have any recordings of your band, play along with it at a decent volume.
If that fails, try some other cabs until you find one that you like.

[bakerster135]

[quote name='Fizzer' timestamp='1380009580' post='2219310']
ID: I was really overwhelmed by the Pi at first, getting it to sit in the mix nicely is quite hard. However dialing in 'sustain' with your foot whilst playing is pretty entertaining.
[/quote]

Assuming you've got an NYC Big Muff (correct me if I'm wrong!), the main issue is that the tone stack scoops the mid-range out of the sound, leaving treble and bass.

Fine if you're playing on your own, but your fuzz bass will dissappear if you put loud distorted guitarists into the equation!...The Russian BMs have a more useful range for bass, or even better get one of the reliable BM clones out there (COG Effects, Fuzzrocious, etc...) with a mids control. This will allow you to bring those valuable mids back in, and cut through the mix with aplomb! :-)

[iD Entity]

I have the bass big muff version (oops), but find pretty much everything you say is relevant to it as well. There are mods out there to help out, I know Chris W. from Muse is religious for the things, but his are modded heavily as well. I think my experience with it kind of stained my urge to try muff clones, as it was the fuzz sound itself that didn't do it for me. Fuzzrocious makes crazy cool stuff though, been tempted a few times.

Hah, I never thought of toeing Sustain knob for a song... be fun to mod an expression control with it =)

[bakerster135]

Ooh, good god, please DO NOT base your experience on the Bass Big Muff! There are so many better muff-based fuzzes out there...

Chris Wolstenholme actually uses the black Russian big muffs (not the BBM), and I think he has about four V8 second-editions. Not modded to my knowledge, he just uses them with the Boss LS-2 in a bi-amp fashion so he's always got a nice healthy "pure" bass signal running underneath. He also uses his Animato in this way, sometimes combined with the Muff to bring the ceiling down!...

This crazy American dude seems to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with recreating Chris W's sound, worth a watch though! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofS3bfyFeU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofS3bfyFeU[/url]

[hamfist]

Agreed, the basic bass big muff is pretty flawed.
THe Deluxe version is a completely different beast though, and still reasonably priced. Has plenty of mids. I think you will like the gate on it too, for staccato on/off stuff .... very effective.