Dead-spot Problem

[Dronny]

I have an Overwater Perception 2006 4-string bass, and it's developed a dead-spot around the 6/7th fret of the E-string, and I don't know what to do!?!?!

I bought the bass second-hand off BC about 4 or 5 years ago, and didn't have any problems for the first few years. To be fair, it was so much better than any other bass I've ever owned (by a country mile!) that I was quite happy with it and never noticed any issues. That is not to say that the problem wasn't there, just that I didn't notice it...

Then, about a year or so ago, I began to notice the "dead spot" around the Bb/B on the bottom (E) string... at first I just played through it, then it started bugging me. I bought a compressor, hoping it would even out the sound, but TBH it didn't really help. Recently it has started to really stand out to me, and at the suggestion of a mate, I contacted Overwater rather than take it to a local shop. They (Chris May, in fact) were very helpful via email and over the phone, and suggested I send it to them for a "service". I did, but it hasn't really made much difference. Not only that, but[size=4] it set me back a fair bit, compared to the "local shop" prices, I think. However, I'm not knocking OW, I'm sure they did their best, but the reality is it's really no better w.r.t. the dead-spot.[/size]

So, fellow BC'ers, what should I do now??? I really don't want to make this in any way about Overwater, I think for the age of the instrument (made in '96) it's well out of its warranty period, and I bought it second-hand in good faith, but I really need to do something about it! It has crossed my mind to try selling it, but I just could not bring myself to potentially deceive someone else about the problem. I could try selling it as "known faulty" but what are the chances of anyone wanting it?

Options I can think of are replacing the neck, selling it with the existing "issue" (which would reduce its value immensely, if not making it completely worthless?), getting someone else to take a look at it... I don't really know of any local luthiers to try (Swindon, Wilts area), but I wonder if that might be my best bet?

I'd really appreciate any advice...

Dave.

[mep]

There have been a few threads on this. You may need to adjust yout trusrod, change strings or an some mass to the headstock with a Fat Finger. Hope you get it sorted.

[Dingus]

Just to be clear, by "dead -spot" you mean a noticably quieter note with less fundamental to it ? And when you say the bass developed a dead- spot, are you sure that the problem wasn't on the bass when you got it and you just didn't notice it? If you could describe the perceived problem a little more specifically that would help clarify things a little.

Dead spots can be a bit of a bastard to cure and are not uncommon in the scheme of things, but unless the problem is particulaly chronic, it shouldn't affect the resale value of the bass unduly, unless ,that is ,the dead-spot is due to some kind of extraordinary mechanical or structural flaw in the bass's construction, which is very unlikely if Overwater have serviced it recently . Dead spots, to a greater or lesser extent, are part and parcel of wooden instruments and there is a certain element of let the buyer beware. It might bother the heck out of you, but another player might not even notice it or even care that much. It can be a very subjective kind of fault, again , depending on how extreme the apparent problem is. There can be a bit of a grey are between "fault" and "inconsistancy" in respect of this kind of a thing, and many or even most basses have inconsistancies to them , so you wouldn't neccesarilly be comitting any kind of an underhand or dishonest act in putting the bass up for sale and letting the potential buyer use their best judgement.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Dingus

[hamfist]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380151501' post='2221697']
Just to be clear, by "dead -spot" you mean a noticably quieter note with less fundamental to it ? And when you say the bass developed a dead- spot, are you sure that the problem wasn't on the bass when you got it and you just didn't notice it? If you could describe the perceived problem a little more specifically that would help clarify things a little.

Dead spots can be a bit of a bastard to cure and are not uncommon in the scheme of things, but unless the problem is particulaly chronic, it shouldn't affect the resale value of the bass unduly, unless ,that is ,the dead-spot is due to some kind of extraordinary mechanical or structural flaw in the bass's construction, which is very unlikely if Overwater have serviced it recently . Dead spots, to a greater or lesser extent, are part and parcel of wooden instruments and there is a certain element of let the buyer beware. It might bother the heck out of you, but another player might not even notice it or even care that much. It can be a very subjective kind of fault, again , depending on how extreme the apparent problem is. There can be a bit of a grey are between "fault" and "inconsistancy" in respect of this kind of a thing, and many or even most basses have inconsistancies to them , so you wouldn't neccesarilly be comitting any kind of an underhand or dishonest act in putting the bass up for sale and letting the potential buyer use their best judgement.
[/quote]

Very good post Dingus

[Dronny]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380151501' post='2221697']
Just to be clear, by "dead -spot" you mean a noticably quieter note with less fundamental to it ? And when you say the bass developed a dead- spot, are you sure that the problem wasn't on the bass when you got it and you just didn't notice it? If you could describe the perceived problem a little more specifically that would help clarify things a little.
[/quote]

Good point -- I suspect (but of course cannot be sure) that it was there when I bought it, as I explained it was generally so much better overall than any other bass I'd ever played, I reckon that kept me happy for a long time! The "dead spot" is as you describe -- quieter / weaker sounding notes at those frets (and also the octave above on the D string, which tends to suggest a resonance rather than fretting problem). Certainly, at higher volumes it is less noticeable, it stands out to me when practicing at home, and particularly when playing with my current band, who rehearse in someone's house and hence tend to keep the levels lower than we might in a bigger rehearsal room.

[quote]
Dead spots can be a bit of a bastard to cure and are not uncommon in the scheme of things, but unless the problem is particulaly chronic, it shouldn't affect the resale value of the bass unduly, unless ,that is ,the dead-spot is due to some kind of extraordinary mechanical or structural flaw in the bass's construction, which is very unlikely if Overwater have serviced it recently . Dead spots, to a greater or lesser extent, are part and parcel of wooden instruments and there is a certain element of let the buyer beware. It might bother the heck out of you, but another player might not even notice it or even care that much. It can be a very subjective kind of fault, again , depending on how extreme the apparent problem is. There can be a bit of a grey are between "fault" and "inconsistancy" in respect of this kind of a thing, and many or even most basses have inconsistancies to them , so you wouldn't neccesarilly be comitting any kind of an underhand or dishonest act in putting the bass up for sale and letting the potential buyer use their best judgement.
[/quote]

Well, that's encouraging, thanks very much for that, I think I have got quite "wound up" over the thought of it being a big problem, and maybe I am over-reacting.

I still wonder whether getting someone else to look into the problem is worthwhile, but I feel like I really need to move it on and find a replacement for my "sunday best" bass. I'm not a hoarder of basses, I only have this one plus a backup (a Vintage) that I keep around just in case, so I'd have to find a replacement before I could think of selling this one.

Interestingly I've never seen anyone mention "dead spot"s in for-sale ads, so I'm not sure how I'd go about advertising it! As you say, it would be best if the buyer tried it first and used their best judgement.

First-world problems, eh? ;-)

[Dronny]

I will try the G-clamp technique this weekend, if I can find one in B&Q... that seems to be a common suggestion in the other posts on similar topics.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Dronny' timestamp='1380179826' post='2221791']
I will try the G-clamp technique this weekend, if I can find one in B&Q... that seems to be a common suggestion in the other posts on similar topics.
[/quote]

Also try a different gauge of strings or a different brand, if the deadspot moves to another place or goes away completely then you're on to something, if it stays the same then it's probably the bass.

As been said before, a slight tweak to the trussrod occasionally fixes these problems, takes a couple of minutes and doesn't cost anything either so worth a try. Maybe try slackening it a quarter turn or less.

Theoretically changing the bridge or the tuners for something of a different weight might make a slight difference, could be an expensive experiment and no guarantee it'll work though.

I've a few slight deadspots on my old Fenders, I've got used to them and subconsciously adjust my playing.

[CHRISDABASS]

Sometimes dead spots happen when a fret isn't quite as well seated as the rest.

It may be worth having someone check this. They should be able to easily remove and re-glue the fret back in.

[Machines]

Detune the affected string by a semitone and I bet the deadspot moves up a fret.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Machines

[Dingus]

[quote name='Dronny' timestamp='1380179763' post='2221790']
Good point -- I suspect (but of course cannot be sure) that it was there when I bought it, as I explained it was generally so much better overall than any other bass I'd ever played, I reckon that kept me happy for a long time! The "dead spot" is as you describe -- quieter / weaker sounding notes at those frets (and also the octave above on the D string, which tends to suggest a resonance rather than fretting problem). Certainly, at higher volumes it is less noticeable, it stands out to me when practicing at home, and particularly when playing with my current band, who rehearse in someone's house and hence tend to keep the levels lower than we might in a bigger rehearsal room.



Well, that's encouraging, thanks very much for that, I think I have got quite "wound up" over the thought of it being a big problem, and maybe I am over-reacting.

I still wonder whether getting someone else to look into the problem is worthwhile, but I feel like I really need to move it on and find a replacement for my "sunday best" bass. I'm not a hoarder of basses, I only have this one plus a backup (a Vintage) that I keep around just in case, so I'd have to find a replacement before I could think of selling this one.

Interestingly I've never seen anyone mention "dead spot"s in for-sale ads, so I'm not sure how I'd go about advertising it! As you say, it would be best if the buyer tried it first and used their best judgement.

First-world problems, eh? ;-)
[/quote]

I too strongly suspect that the perceived deadspot was always present on your bass, but the other overwhelmingly positive aspects of the sound and playability distracted you from it for a long time. If you think about it ,though, it's a win-win situationfor you in so much as, if something has changed on the bass to cause a deadspot then ultimately that is something that can be diagnosed and fixed by putting it back how it was. On the other hand, if the bass has always been like this then you just have to accept that as part and parcel of having an Overwater and can keep it or sell it secure in the knowledge that it isn't an unusual or defective example.

To put this kind of problem into context, vintage Fenders that sell for several thousand pounds and are so highly sought-after have inherent problems with often quite severe deadspots , so much so that most players accept them as part and parcel of those basses, and indeed one of the idiosyncracies that make them so desirable. The reason Leo Fender designed the distinctive headstock shape and three+1 tuning peg configuration on the Music Man Stingray was to combat a pronounced deadspot at the 5th fret on the E string that he found on the intial prototypes . In the present, Roger Sadowsky refuses to use lightweight tuners on four string basses because he thinks they increase the instance of deadspots on his basses. The overall point is that , because wood is an unpredictable and widely varying material, even the best quality basses have a varied level of consistancy in their sound, especially regarding deadspots.

Most deadspots are caused by the neck of the bass resonating at the same frequency as the note you are playing,. The corresponding vibrations cancel each other out and thus make that specific note( or notes) apparently quieter and less full-sounding that the other notes on the fretboard. That's why adding mass and thus changing the resonant frequency of the neck can sometimes alleviate the problem.

Trying a different set of strings is a very good suggestion , and potentially a cheap fix, but also might I suggest recording your bass at home and seeing if the deadspot is noticably quieter when you listen back. There can be a big difference in the way the sound of you bass is perceived by you as you play it to how other people hear it when they listen. You may find you have got so wrapped up in a minor flaw in the sound that the problem has become exaggerated in your own mind ( it's very easily done in this game!). Part of the problem may well be that the rest of the notes on your Overwater are so consistant that any slight deviation from that is very apparent. High quality basses can spoil you in that respect. The way you EQ your bass can also change how prominent the deadspot may sound. Try setting all the tone controls on your amp and on the bass flat and see how that affects the sound , and then experiment from there.

If you do decide to sell your bass, I wouldn't bother flagging up the deadspot as a problem with the bass, because I really don't think it is worth mentioning any more on your bass than countless other ones that people use and sell quite happily . Your honesty and integrity are admirable, but you have to put this supposed "fault" in context. If Overwater have serviced the bass at considerable cost to you and given it the O.K that it is working at factory spec then that is much more of a guarantee than most other secondhand basses will have. There is such a thing as "leading with your chin" as they say in the world of boxing, and making an issue of the deadspot is only making an uneccesarry problem for yourself in selling the bass for a decent price when in fact it has recently been certified as being in perfect working order by the manufacturer. I can absolutely guarantee that no bass shop in the world would warn their customers that your Overwater had a deadspot. As I said previously, your bass wouldn't neccesarilly seem to have any such problem to another player, and countless other basses , including some very expensive high-end ones, are subject to the same kind of sonic discrepancies.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Dingus

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380199898' post='2222202']

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I too strongly suspect that the perceived deadspot was always present on your bass, but the other overwhelmingly positive aspects of the sound and playability distracted you from it for a long time. If you think about it ,though, it's a win-win situationfor you in so much as, if something has changed on the bass to cause a deadspot then ultimately that is something that can be diagnosed and fixed by putting it back how it was. On the other hand, if the bass has always been like this then you just have to accept that as part and parcel of having an Overwater and can keep it or sell it in secure in the knowledge that it isn't an unusual or defective example.[/font][/color]
.......

If you do decide to sell your bass, I wouldn't bother flagging up the deadspot as a problem with the bass, because I really don't think it is worth mentioning any more on your bass than countless other ones that people and sell quite happily . Your honesty and integrity are admirable, but you have to put this supposed "fault" in context. If Overwater have serviced the bass at considerable cost to you and given it the O.K that it is working at factory spec then that is much more of a guarantee than most other secondhand basses will have. There is such a thing as "leading with your chin" as they say in the world of boxing, and making an issue of the deadspot is only making an uneccesarry problem for yourself in selling the bass for a decent price when in fact it has recently been certified as being in perfect working order by the manufacturer. I can absolutely guarantee that no bass shop in the world would warn their customers that your Overwater had a deadspot. As I said previously, your bass wouldn't neccesarilly seem to have any such problem to another player, and countless other basses , including some very expensive high-end ones, are subject to the same kind of sonic discrepancies.
[/quote]

Good advice.

Alternatively you could advertise it as "almost entirely covered in live spots". Actually on second thoughts that makes it sound like it's got a medical condition.

[Dronny]

Wow, thanks to everyone who replied, Dingus especially (love your avatar by the way ;-) ), it's made me feel a whole lot better about it!

Just to answer a few specific points, I have tried a couple of different sets of strings (currently Overwater nickels, previously Elixirs and before that Rotosound swing bass steels), all have exhibited the problem to some degree. I also thing Dingus you are spot-on that I as over-whelmed by the bass when I first got it, and didn't notice, it's only when familiarity set in that I started to hear it.

Re CHRISDABASS suggestion about the frets, well that was what they did when I sent it back to Overwater a couple of months ago, so I don' think it's that.

I tried dropping the string tuning by a semitone, as per 'Machines' suggestion, and true enough, the dead-spot seems to move with it! So it does seem to be resonance related, I guess.

Thanks again to all who offered their advice, cheers!

[Mornats]

Silly question from someone with far less knowledge of these things than the people who've helped you so far but have you tried putting it through a different amp in a different room? Just to make sure it's the bass and not the amp or acoustics that's causing the problem.

[Dronny]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1380315558' post='2223865']
Silly question from someone with far less knowledge of these things than the people who've helped you so far but have you tried putting it through a different amp in a different room? Just to make sure it's the bass and not the amp or acoustics that's causing the problem.
[/quote]

Not a silly question at all, but in short, yes. In the time since I noticed it, I've played in a couple of different rehearsal rooms, through a few different amp/speakers, and it's definitely the guitar.

However, after reading all the comments here, and trying it again, I have to say that it's actually nowhere near as bad as i was thinking at first. I was trying some of the suggestions (in particular, de-tuning it a tone), and noticed that the so-called dead-spot was actually quite subjective, and not as pronounced as I thought, in the cold light of day.

So, thanks again to all the BC'ers who have helped me see this as a minor quibble rather than a major problem. Much appreciated, chaps!

[geoffbyrne]

If it's a bolt-on neck n(I don't know?) then make sure the screws are as tight as sensible.

G.