Yamaha S112. Improving the sound

[Phil Starr]

If you have these PA speakers then you'll know about the bright sound they produce. They really punch vocals through the mix but have a tendency to shouty harshness especially with female vocals and can also cause feedback problems. I rather like them for PA as I like vocals well forward but I tired of the harshness,even though you can eq most of it out.

Here's a zero cost fix, reverse the connectors to the tweeter/horn. This reverses the phase of the horn so at the crossover frequency there will be a small dip in the frequency response. The shoutiness (and feedback) is caused by a mid-range peak made worse by the very ordinary Eminence Delta driver they use (I think they have moved away from this in recent models but you'd need to check) which has a sharp midrange peak far too close to the crossover frequency.

You'll hear the phase reversal as a veiling in the middle range of female voices and the peak is still there but less noticeable. Overall the sound is a lot more natural and a bit less wearing for the listener. If you prefer the factory sound you can just put the wires back where they were.

[JTUK]

Good spot.... not a fan of the lower end of vox P.A cabs as the horn tends to be even weaker than
the driver. Maybe weaker is the word word, but the balance can be harsh and the actual unit fragile.

This is the minus side of PV, Yamaha and the price point comparables, even some Mackie and JBL, and a compromise too far.
Throw in an average amp set-up and you have a P,A that strains the ears and gets wearing very quickly and one that is not so
robust either.

My current rant is sh*t shot P.A's that don't help the vocalist who may struggle in the first place.
Lead vox seems such an afterthought....

[Phil Starr]

I absolutely agree about the PV PA speakers, their horn driver is just not up to the job and I think they use the same driver in all their cabs. There are rumours that the driver has been changed in the more recent cabs, if it is true then it is about time. It's either bonkers or laziness to put such a poor horn in with a great driver like the Black Widow.

The Yammy is a strange one, I quite like them, better sounding on vox than some of the JBL's and EV's. The horn driver is a little gem (marked as yamaha but I think it is the Eminence PSD 2002) let down by the bass driver. The upper frequencies are rather nice sounding and the bass at low levels is good but the mids are fairly dreadful. If you look at the plot of the Delta 12A [url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_12A.pdf"]http://www.eminence....f/Delta_12A.pdf[/url] you can see why, there's a huge peak of 9dB above 1.5kHz and through the crossover region. Why you would choose this driver when you have the buying power of Yamaha I don't know, excursion is poor too, though not a problem if you keep the bass away or use subs. The crossover is nicely made but they haven't really dealt with that mid hump. Reversing the tweeter is normal practice with 2nd order crossovers. (theirs is 2nd order for bass and 3rd to the horn) it took me 10 mins to try, I wish I'd thought of this a couple of years ago.

Spot on about the PA too, it is such an afterthought for too many pub bands.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Phil Starr

[JTUK]

Heard some new 12" Yamaha's a few months back when we were looking to upgrade the keyboard rig. Forget the exact model but they were being pushed
as an alternative to QSC K's....which they weren't but then they were almost half the price IIRC...
As with all these things, we might have liked them better if we hadn't have been able to A/B them with QSC who have lately become a bit of a benchmark.

My recollection was that the QSC was the lead, then RCF, the K10's and then Yamaha which we put ahead of Makie.
I was quite shocked about the Mackie as you see them about a lot, but I think the Mackie of old would have stood up in their crowd better..???
today, not so much. Not so keen on HK these days either...

Surprisingly, we liked K10's over K12's IF you run them with subs, but not without... and that is why we went for the KW's instead as we run them just as tops
sometimes. We can be a very loud band at times and we never run our of juice with the QSC vocal-wise... but we never did with Martin either but those buggers were heavier. Sorry to see them go, for sure, but they were in effect a 410 P.A cab... !!!!!!!!!

Starting point for good P.A tops atm...would probably be Yam DSR112 or maybe RCF, for me, from my relatively recent scout trips.

[Phil Starr]

Yeah, Yamahas have been busy with the new budget range which kind of relate to the Club series in the way the Mackie Thump does to the SRM450's, a cheaper, less able alternative that trades on the name but sounds OK so long as you don't push them. The DSR's look good on paper but I haven't heard them yet.

12" drivers are really not good for vocals as the polar radiation pattern is usually poor, I'm not surprised you liked the 10's if vocals are important. I really liked the old Mackies with the midrange driver but haven't seen any around for a while.

I'm going over to my own designs now, tweaking the Yammy 112's was just an idea I thought I'd try, they do sound better though and feedback rejection is a lot better so if anyone out there is using them .....