EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380628341' post='2228009'] Reading between the lines it seems like you are saying I am a fool for thinking the best of people. Thanks for that, it's really appreciated. Maybe I am a fool for doing that, but I don't need you implying that. Of course, you would deny that as well. [/quote] Just noticed that you added this bit. I don't think you are a fool at all... and I think you are implying that I am suggesting something which isn't there. If this is how you feel, I would say for certain, that buying off the shelf is the best for you and your sanity! PS, don't buy a Morgan! Also, you'll find that there are not many Jon Letts in Leicester if you are looking for a telephone number (or address for that matter). I would also say (although it's a bit too late at this point) that's it very odd for a business not to make this information readily available on their business website. Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380617433' post='2227776'] A J also balances perfectly and has the golden proportions, a good Fender Jazz is a beautiful thing, a lovely design. Fenders are so customisable anyway, that's part of the joy of owning one. New PG, new pups, new body, hardware, a John East pre-amp, even a new neck if you bought blind, or foolishly. I think trying to reverse engineer a pickup is daft, how the hell are you supposed to guess what it will sound like in the bass? People THINK they know, but they don't really, it's all hit and miss. And very expensive. Seems to me a custom bass is simply a vanity indulgence for most people, their time and money would be better spent on learning how to set up their instruments, learn about sound and eq. I think half the problems they think they are addressing with a custom bass could be solved more simply if it's not just a vanity project. Probably should get some lessons on how to play the thing too [/quote] The only Jazzes I've ever played that balanced well were too heavy to be of any use to me, and as for golden proportions....let's just say that's a matter of personal taste. What's wrong with a vanity indulgence BTW? FWIW much of the reason I've gone custom in the past (and will in the future) is aesthetic, which is a perfectly valid reason, as is any really. And it could be argued that if sometime with enough aptitude puts in enough work on a Sue Ryder then what's the point of a Fender? Edited October 1, 2013 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think to a point, it's fair to say that you have to put up with some of these issues when it comes to custom builds like this. After a point, it becomes bad customer service, and then criminal. Sharing info about the latter on the internet can only serve to aid others in choosing their builder. So yeh, put up with a bit of agro and delays, but if the builder is seriously f***ing you over, you should post about it! Where that line is drawn is obviously subjective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380629062' post='2228023'] Life is too short! Get out there and do some playing instead. [/quote] Too short to be waiting for mobile deadlines. Go and play the bass you are still waiting on being delivered instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380529907' post='2226486'] Hello all. This is more of a statement then anything. But I have never ever ordered anything custom and got it when it was promised. I generally take a lax approach to Custom built things because I don't want to antagonize the manufacturer, However I feel this has been taken advantage of by a number of builders. I have been given excuses time and time again as to why things are not completed, but I see builds being completed from orders made after my own and other evidence of dishonesty. Currently I am waiting on two sets of custom pickups by an un-named custom builder on another forum. Given a build time of 4-6 weeks, still waiting a year later. I have been nice up to a point but I have lost patience. The builder had some personal issues, but no longer and he has openly stated that he is building new orders ahead of mine and is calling me unreasonable. I have a bass being made by a builder on this forum at a cut price. It was ordered this time last year and was supposed to be finished by Easter/April time. I have been asking for a proper honest update for the last month but with no reply. I have a bass being built by another builder not based on any forum, ordered a year ago. It seems to be finally getting built, but I had to be persistent in my calls and is the only builder I know in person. Even though waiting for a custom bass for 6 months to a year is not considered a long wait by many people, I do expect builders to stick to the build times given and not to take advantage of my good cheer. When I start chasing up on orders more insistently via Email typically they say nothing. And when I feel I have no choice but to vent on a public forum, they try to go damage control and make me look unreasonable. All I ask from these custom builders is absoloute honesty in their communications with me and what they are working on. Constant lies catch up with you at some point and just because I may only know you through the internet, does not give you the right to ignore me more then any other customer. That is all. [/quote] Why didn't you just name and shame from the off then if you we not aware of delays on custom orders why make this a plea to all of the others you don't or didn't know were just as bad?Is this now officially a bad feedback for Jon Letts thread then or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='4000' timestamp='1380629724' post='2228046'] And it could be argued that if sometime with enough aptitude puts in enough work on a Sue Ryder then what's the point of a Fender? [/quote] Is this an appropriate time to mention Macca's cheapo violin bass? Really held him back didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380630666' post='2228075'] Is this an appropriate time to mention Macca's cheapo violin bass? Really held him back didn't it? [/quote] Imagine how good a player he might have been on a better bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 True, but I have him down as a musician and not a gear head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380631007' post='2228089'] True, but I have him down as a musician and not a gear head. [/quote] Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1380631243' post='2228100'] Really? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380630663' post='2228074'] Why didn't you just name and shame from the off then if you we not aware of delays on custom orders why make this a plea to all of the others you don't or didn't know were just as bad?Is this now officially a bad feedback for Jon Letts thread then or am I missing something? [/quote] It did not start off as that initially as I was initially just venting. But I changed my mind as I stated on the first page. Why is this important enough for you to bring up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380617433' post='2227776'] Seems to me a custom bass is simply a vanity indulgence for most people, their time and money would be better spent on learning how to set up their instruments, learn about sound and eq. I think half the problems they think they are addressing with a custom bass could be solved more simply if it's not just a vanity project. Probably should get some lessons on how to play the thing too [/quote] I'd go along with that, except it's assuming the custom is more expensive than a new, mass produced bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1380629549' post='2228040'] This is the point I have been trying to get across to EBS Freak all along! If you are a first time customer, how are you supposed to know that you will get lied to over delivery times etc? You are not a fool in my eyes, and you deserve to be angry for having to put up with terrible service, and you definitely should not have to [b][i]put up and shut up![/i][/b] Only my opinion of course! [/quote] Am I right in thinking that Shockwave ordered a custom bass, without meeting the maker, no contract, without talking neck profiles and showing Jon what you want, without having a contact name, without having a contact address or telephone number and gave him money for this? Being a first time customer seems way down my checklist at the moment. Terrible service is one thing... but protecting yourself from a potential hiding is another. Find the guy, ask for your money back. Given what you've said here, he may even want to give you your money back (assuming money has changed hands at this point). I guarantee if that bass is ever made, you'll have no joy from playing it anyway. I'm not being horrible, having a go or anything when I say this. Save yourself and the builder the heartache. Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380630718' post='2228076'] Imagine how good a player he might have been on a better bass! [/quote] Yeah, he might have learned to hold it the right way round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380559426' post='2227087'] It doesn't matter what stories good or bad you are told... if you want something, in a way, you have to play their game despite you being the customer (and of course, the customer is always right). Totally wrong I know... but that's how it is when the seller has something that you want that you can't just pluck off the shelf. Yes, you shouldn't have to play the BS games... just depends how much you want that final product. [/quote] But it does matter what the stories are. A typical shop transaction consists of finding a shop with what you want in it, visiting the shop with the requisite amount of money, obtaining the object of desire, handing over the money, and returning home. If you look at the ledger of your life, you have now obtained the most recent object of desire and it has cost you a certain amount of money and a certain amount of time. What you don't have, and don't have to budget for, is pain (in the metaphorical rather than literal sense). If the cost of your object of desire was not just money and a known amount of time but an unknown amount of time, frustration, and stress, then knowing that there would be lost time, extra frustration, and extra stress does mean that one can decide whether the desire for the object of desire is actually sufficient to balance not just the financial cost but also the potential pain. So, if I find that luthier X could make an instrument which cries out to me to own it, but others' experience would lead me to believe it could be five years and innumerable unanswered phone calls and emails, while luthier Y could supply me with an instrument almost as wonderful which is sitting on a shelf waiting for strings (and not strings made from unicorn mane either), then I could make an informed decision based on how much money and how much pain I would place as the valu of an instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1380633544' post='2228162'] But it does matter what the stories are. A typical shop transaction consists of finding a shop with what you want in it, visiting the shop with the requisite amount of money, obtaining the object of desire, handing over the money, and returning home. If you look at the ledger of your life, you have now obtained the most recent object of desire and it has cost you a certain amount of money and a certain amount of time. What you don't have, and don't have to budget for, is pain (in the metaphorical rather than literal sense). If the cost of your object of desire was not just money and a known amount of time but an unknown amount of time, frustration, and stress, then knowing that there would be lost time, extra frustration, and extra stress does mean that one can decide whether the desire for the object of desire is actually sufficient to balance not just the financial cost but also the potential pain. So, if I find that luthier X could make an instrument which cries out to me to own it, but others' experience would lead me to believe it could be five years and innumerable unanswered phone calls and emails, while luthier Y could supply me with an instrument almost as wonderful which is sitting on a shelf waiting for strings (and not strings made from unicorn mane either), then I could make an informed decision based on how much money and how much pain I would place as the valu of an instrument. [/quote] Err... I'm not disagreeing with you. If you are going down the custom route without doing your homework, then you really are leaving yourself wide open! All I am saying is (and this seems to be being ignored), if you know the stories are bad and only luthier X will deliver the goods, you have the choice to either go with it and deal with the potential anguish... or not. For some, luthier Y will never be an option. If you must have a Status for example - because you want to have a replica of Mark King's bass, then any other bass will fall short* * not implicating that Status have bad customer service, just stating them as they have a product that nobody else has. Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380630718' post='2228076'] Imagine how good a player he might have been on a better bass! [/quote] That's why the Beatles got significantly better after 1965 when Macca got a proper bass.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1380634166' post='2228175'] That's why the Beatles got significantly better after 1965 when Macca got a proper bass... [/quote] You don't mean his R*ck*nb*ck*r?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1380634166' post='2228175'] That's why the Beatles got significantly better after 1965 when Macca got a proper bass.... [/quote] I think you'll find it was '68... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380634133' post='2228174'] Err... I'm not disagreeing with you. If you are going down the custom route without doing your homework, then you really are leaving yourself wide open! All I am saying is (and this seems to be being ignored), if you know the stories are bad and only luthier X will deliver the goods, you have the choice to either go with it and deal with the potential anguish... or not. [/quote] Then I misinterpreted what you said, which was along the lines of "it doesn't matter what the stories are like". I've been getting the implication from your postings that there's no point in people posting about problems they've had with a luthier. If people don't post their stories then how do other know that the stories are bad, or even, indeed, whther the stories exist at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1380634435' post='2228180'] Then I misinterpreted what you said, which was along the lines of "it doesn't matter what the stories are like". I've been getting the implication from your postings that there's no point in people posting about problems they've had with a luthier. If people don't post their stories then how do other know that the stories are bad, or even, indeed, whther the stories exist at all? [/quote] It absolutely does matter what the stories are like. Some folk for example, I knew if I dealt with (given the stories that I have read), would be a rollercoaster ride. I'd have to think carefully about taking that step. Perhaps I should clarify - sometimes the want for the product overrides all the negative stories. You brain tells you it's a bad move... but your heart really wants it. If my want for the product was strong enough, despite bad stories, I'd have to accept that I'm going to be in for a rough ride but live in the hope that it would all be worth it - that is if I was to pursue it. Funnily enough, my experience with a certain luthier on a small purchase, lost him a 4.5k deal because I couldn't face the risk of dealing with it all again. The want for their 4.5k product pretty much disappeared overnight. Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I really have to admire anyone getting a custom made bass, but on reading this thread I dont think I,ll bother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380617433' post='2227776'] Seems to me a custom bass is simply a vanity indulgence for most people, their time and money would be better spent on learning how to set up their instruments, learn about sound and eq. I think half the problems they think they are addressing with a custom bass could be solved more simply if it's not just a vanity project. Probably should get some lessons on how to play the thing too [/quote] In essence , I agree with what you are saying here in a lot of ways , especially the bit about spending less money on equipment and more on learning how to play. Lets just be clear ,though, there is no way the O.P or anyone else should be "punished "for ordering a custom bass because it doesn't fit in with some other folks prescibed idea of what a bass should or shouldn't be and how or how not you should choose and buy a bass. . I'm sure we all agree, whatever our own preferences or opinions on basses, that people should get what they have paid for and that the goods should meet their reasonable expectations . Also , are we all on the same wavelenghth when we say "custom bass"? I think some folks mean any high-end predominantly handmade bass whereas others are referring more to individualistic, one-off designs with a degree of customisation on them . And so , in light of that, I would be interested to know if other people think it is wrong or ill-advised to buy superior quality, higher cost versions of established designs. Myself, I think it's a much better idea than designing your own bass in the vast majority of cases, but at the same time , I have to be honest and say that, slinky playability and good looks aside, the final sound that comes out of a boutique Fender-style bass that costs three grand isn't that different to what you get from one that costs eleven hundred quid ( or less) brand new from the factory that you can try before you buy in a shop. I have spent [u]a lot [/u]of money comiing to that conclusion though, and it certainly isn't a standpoint that comes from any sense of resentment or envy about what I can't afford . In line with what Nigel has said , I have realised that a lot of the time, buying fancy basses and focusing on equipment is a diversion from the far more difficult task of learning how to play properly , and players who can play well will make any bass sound better that a player who is less capable. Improving yours skills on the bass improves the sound of your equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1380635793' post='2228203'] I really have to admire anyone getting a custom made bass[/quote] Why? I ask purely out of interest The phrase "[i]a fool and his money are easily parted[/i]" springs to mind in most cases. It depends of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1380635793' post='2228203'] I really have to admire anyone getting a custom made bass, but on reading this thread I dont think I,ll bother! [/quote] It's not all negative! I have a custom instrument and it's exactly the image i had in my head of what I wanted. Sounds and looks! I have one thing that annoys me, and it's simply because the Delano pickups I (not the builder I should add) have the Delano logo in white on one and black on the other. Nothing a sharpie can't fix or hunting down the correct pup. If you want one, and have an idea thats not easy to come by. Why not get something bespoke to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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