An open letter to Custom builders. (Update on Page 11)

[Conan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380635946' post='2228210']
I would be interested to know if other people think it is wrong or ill-advised to buy superior quality, higher cost versions of established designs. the final sound that comes out of a boutique Fender-style bass that costs three grand isn't that different to what you get from one that costs eleven hundred quid ( or less) [/quote]

[url="http://www.fender.com/en-GB/custom-shop/series/limited-edition/limited-geddy-lee-1972-jazz-bass-maple-fingerboard-black/"]http://www.fender.com/en-GB/custom-shop/series/limited-edition/limited-geddy-lee-1972-jazz-bass-maple-fingerboard-black/[/url]

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1380636070' post='2228214']
It's not all negative! I have a custom instrument and it's exactly the image i had in my head of what I wanted.
Sounds and looks!
[/quote]

Agreed. The right custom instrument is fantastic. Just ask some of the countless custom owners on here. The key thing is, is finding the right builder and speccing what you need, not what you think you need (cos that's when things start to go horribly wrong!)

[Sibob]

*Runs in*

Glad I play a Fender

*Runs out*

[Dingus]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1380636196' post='2228217']
[url="http://www.fender.com/en-GB/custom-shop/series/limited-edition/limited-geddy-lee-1972-jazz-bass-maple-fingerboard-black/"]http://www.fender.co...gerboard-black/[/url]
[/quote]

I was looking at these when they came out . I'm sure they are great, but I wouldn't buy one myself for numerous reasons. Needless to say that if you do buy one , when the novelty wears off, it will sound like a Fender Jazz Bass .

( I wouldn't buy the cheaper version either ) .

Edited October 1, 2013 by Dingus

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1380636564' post='2228222']
*Runs in*

Glad I play a Fender

*Runs out*
[/quote]

It's a custom build. They just put a fake decal on it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380635946' post='2228210']
In essence , I agree with what you are saying here in a lot of ways , especially the bit about spending less money on equipment and more on learning how to play. Lets just be clear ,though, there is no way the O.P or anyone else should be "punished "for ordering a custom bass because it doesn't fit in with some other folks prescibed idea of what a bass should or shouldn't be and how or how not you should choose and buy a bass. . I'm sure we all agree, whatever our own preferences or opinions on basses, that people should get what they have paid for and that the goods should meet their reasonable expectations .

Also , are we all on the same wavelenghth when we say "custom bass"? I think some folks mean any high-end predominantly handmade bass whereas others are referring more to individualistic, one-off designs with a degree of customisation on them . And so , in light of that, I would be interested to know if other people think it is wrong or ill-advised to buy superior quality, higher cost versions of established designs. Myself, I think it's a much better idea than designing your own bass in the vast majority of cases, but at the same time , I have to be honest and say that, slinky playability and good looks aside, the final sound that comes out of a boutique Fender-style bass that costs three grand isn't that different to what you get from one that costs eleven hundred quid ( or less) brand new from the factory that you can try before you buy in a shop. I have spent [u]a lot [/u]of money comiing to that conclusion though, and it certainly isn't a standpoint that comes from any sense of resentment or envy about what I can't afford . In line with what Nigel has said , I have realised that a lot of the time, buying fancy basses and focusing on equipment is a diversion from the far more difficult task of learning how to play properly , and players who can play well will make any bass sound better that a player who is less capable. Improving yours skills on the bass improves the sound of your equipment.
[/quote]

No you are quite right, no-one should expect to be dicked about when they order something from a luthier. But then, you get people in all professions doing this, plumbers, motor garages, builders, whatavyer. I also think that easily available info needs to be available about these people, especially about after sales care. There is also responsibility on the buyer to research properly and hit the builder with the right questions and get assurances and contact details in advance.

But the fact is, and I'm sorry to say this and I hope I don't offend anyone, but every time I go to a bass bash or play someone's bass, or even buy a bass from someone on here, most of the time I am surprised by how badly they are set up, and how poorly they play, sometimes I am amazed at how little they seem to have been cared for. So, I find it hard to believe that the majority of people who order a custom bass have any idea what they want, other than some pretty bookmatched bullshit.

[Lorne]

I completely agree with Shockwave, and I will name and shame

I gave Chris Eccleshall my B.C.Rich Widow bass to remove 3 pots, add a rosewood headstock overlay, bind the body inlay the fretboard and headstock with inlays I provided,respray it completely in black, all work was painstakingly explained and he took notes.

MANY MANY phone calls in between (All from my end), I finally get the "It's finished" call 2 YEARS later.

I arrive, he's set is up all lovely on a stand at the end of a corridor, from 20 ft away I say "Oh for F***'s sake!" , What's wrong is the reply, "The inlays are opposing triangles, the points of which are supposed to touch in the middle of the fretboard, NONE of them do, and they get further apart towards the body"

Of course, I am wrong, then I get close to the bass, "where's the serial number gone from the end of the fretboard?"

What serial number? I didn't see one

I made him stamp it back on, there and then. the headstock overlay was 2 peices of rosewood, the binding wasn't great, and it was 2 different colours of black!!!!

But, under the threat of me killing him, I gave him a second chance with my USA B.C.Rich Ironbird, which I had with me, he was NOT to respray it, get someone else to do it, remove the fretboard, replace the trussrod (DO NOT LOSE THE SERIAL NUMBER) get it working, then strip the paint and send it away for a respray. All to be done within a year!

After 3 YEARS of me phoning and asking, "How much has been done" and getting the predictable, I haven't done much, I asked "SPECIFICALLY, what have you done in the 2 months since my last phone call" NOTHING

"Right, find all the bits. I'll pick it up"

Ok, when

"NOW"

Got the bass back, all that had happened is the hardware removed, the electrics and one of the pick ups, absolutely NO work actually done to it.

I gave it to Tom Anderson and told him to just get it working

12 HOURS later, the fretboard is OFF, broken truss rod removed and a new one to be custom made, ordered.

although the respray was dropped from the list of work for now, Tom Anderson had the bass completely fixed and working in 3 weeks and 1 day, now, that is what I call service, he had told me 4 weeks to 6 weeks.

I will never use Chris Eccleshall again, which is a shame as he is such a nice guy, just useless

[Conan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380636650' post='2228223']
( I wouldn't buy the cheaper version either ) .
[/quote]

Really? Widely regarded as one of the best basses Fender ever made. I love 'em.

Anyway - back OT...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Lorne' timestamp='1380636979' post='2228231']
I completely agree with Shockwave, and I will name and shame

I gave Chris Eccleshall my B.C.Rich Widow bass to remove 3 pots, add a rosewood headstock overlay, bind the body inlay the fretboard and headstock with inlays I provided,respray it completely in black, all work was painstakingly explained and he took notes.

MANY MANY phone calls in between (All from my end), I finally get the "It's finished" call 2 YEARS later.

I arrive, he's set is up all lovely on a stand at the end of a corridor, from 20 ft away I say "Oh for F***'s sake!" , What's wrong is the reply, "The inlays are opposing triangles, the points of which are supposed to touch in the middle of the fretboard, NONE of them do, and they get further apart towards the body"

Of course, I am wrong, then I get close to the bass, "where's the serial number gone from the end of the fretboard?"

What serial number? I didn't see one

I made him stamp it back on, there and then. the headstock overlay was 2 peices of rosewood, the binding wasn't great, and it was 2 different colours of black!!!!

But, under the threat of me killing him, I gave him a second chance with my USA B.C.Rich Ironbird, which I had with me, he was NOT to respray it, get someone else to do it, remove the fretboard, replace the trussrod (DO NOT LOSE THE SERIAL NUMBER) get it working, then strip the paint and send it away for a respray. All to be done within a year!

After 3 YEARS of me phoning and asking, "How much has been done" and getting the predictable, I haven't done much, I asked "SPECIFICALLY, what have you done in the 2 months since my last phone call" NOTHING

"Right, find all the bits. I'll pick it up"

Ok, when

"NOW"

Got the bass back, all that had happened is the hardware removed, the electrics and one of the pick ups, absolutely NO work actually done to it.

I gave it to Tom Anderson and told him to just get it working

12 HOURS later, the fretboard is OFF, broken truss rod removed and a new one to be custom made, ordered.

although the respray was dropped from the list of work for now, Tom Anderson had the bass completely fixed and working in 3 weeks and 1 day, now, that is what I call service, he had told me 4 weeks to 6 weeks.

I will never use Chris Eccleshall again, which is a shame as he is such a nice guy, just useless
[/quote]

Err... you gave him a second chance?

3 years?

Err... what is wrong with you?

This is something - as you have proven - could be done by any other luthier. Why would put yourself through that?

Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak

[xilddx]

[quote name='Lorne' timestamp='1380636979' post='2228231']
I completely agree with Shockwave, and I will name and shame

I gave Chris Eccleshall my B.C.Rich Widow bass to remove 3 pots, add a rosewood headstock overlay, bind the body inlay the fretboard and headstock with inlays I provided,respray it completely in black, all work was painstakingly explained and he took notes.

MANY MANY phone calls in between (All from my end), I finally get the "It's finished" call 2 YEARS later.

I arrive, he's set is up all lovely on a stand at the end of a corridor, from 20 ft away I say "Oh for F***'s sake!" , What's wrong is the reply, "The inlays are opposing triangles, the points of which are supposed to touch in the middle of the fretboard, NONE of them do, and they get further apart towards the body"

Of course, I am wrong, then I get close to the bass, "where's the serial number gone from the end of the fretboard?"

What serial number? I didn't see one

I made him stamp it back on, there and then. the headstock overlay was 2 peices of rosewood, the binding wasn't great, and it was 2 different colours of black!!!!

But, under the threat of me killing him, I gave him a second chance with my USA B.C.Rich Ironbird, which I had with me, he was NOT to respray it, get someone else to do it, remove the fretboard, replace the trussrod (DO NOT LOSE THE SERIAL NUMBER) get it working, then strip the paint and send it away for a respray. All to be done within a year!

After 3 YEARS of me phoning and asking, "How much has been done" and getting the predictable, I haven't done much, I asked "SPECIFICALLY, what have you done in the 2 months since my last phone call" NOTHING

"Right, find all the bits. I'll pick it up"

Ok, when

"NOW"

Got the bass back, all that had happened is the hardware removed, the electrics and one of the pick ups, absolutely NO work actually done to it.

I gave it to Tom Anderson and told him to just get it working

12 HOURS later, the fretboard is OFF, broken truss rod removed and a new one to be custom made, ordered.

although the respray was dropped from the list of work for now, Tom Anderson had the bass completely fixed and working in 3 weeks and 1 day, now, that is what I call service, he had told me 4 weeks to 6 weeks.

I will never use Chris Eccleshall again, which is a shame as he is such a nice guy, just useless
[/quote]

f*** me, that is pretty f***ing amazing mate! How did you keep your lid on for that amount of time!

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380637784' post='2228249']
Err... you gave him a second chance?

3 years?

Err... what is wrong with you?

This is something - as you have proven - could be done by any other luthier. Why would put yourself through that?
[/quote]

Because ol Chris is one charming muthaf***er

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADq79DFd6qg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADq79DFd6qg[/url]

Edited October 1, 2013 by xilddx

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380637911' post='2228254']
Because ol Chris is one charming muthaf***er
[/quote]

Yeah, but does he wine you and dine you, ask for neck measurements....?

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380638823' post='2228266']
Yeah, but does he wine you and dine you, ask for neck measurements....?
[/quote]

I'd be a bit embarrassed telling him I like it shallow with a narrow nut width

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380639356' post='2228277']
I'd be a bit embarrassed telling him I like it shallow with a narrow nut width
[/quote]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! If only people knew what we were talking about.

That's the post of thread.

[paul h]

Goddammit. Just typed an incredibly witty and erudite reply but pressed the wrong button and lost it all.

The key points were: How long? Wishbass. Zero fret. Tone. Fingers. Hahaha. Wood.

That is all.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380639443' post='2228278']
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! If only people knew what we were talking about.

That's the post of thread.
[/quote]

I think that's why everyone asks for a modern C shape with a nice bit of Brazillian to get their fingers on

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380621947' post='2227864']


Meet you half way Mr xilddx?



Been trying to put myself off this one for months now...
[/quote]

that's really cool. What is it?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1380640071' post='2228294']
that's really cool. What is it?
[/quote]

Pavel single cut Jazz - lovely isn't it?

Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380639584' post='2228283']
I think that's why everyone asks for a modern C shape with a nice bit of Brazillian to get their fingers on
[/quote]

It makes you wonder what the luthier saw in you to suggest a choice of a spalted wood doesn't it?

Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak

[Dingus]

[quote name='Lorne' timestamp='1380636979' post='2228231']
I completely agree with Shockwave, and I will name and shame

I gave Chris Eccleshall my B.C.Rich Widow bass to remove 3 pots, add a rosewood headstock overlay, bind the body inlay the fretboard and headstock with inlays I provided,respray it completely in black, all work was painstakingly explained and he took notes.

MANY MANY phone calls in between (All from my end), I finally get the "It's finished" call 2 YEARS later.

I arrive, he's set is up all lovely on a stand at the end of a corridor, from 20 ft away I say "Oh for F***'s sake!" , What's wrong is the reply, "The inlays are opposing triangles, the points of which are supposed to touch in the middle of the fretboard, NONE of them do, and they get further apart towards the body"

Of course, I am wrong, then I get close to the bass, "where's the serial number gone from the end of the fretboard?"

What serial number? I didn't see one

I made him stamp it back on, there and then. the headstock overlay was 2 peices of rosewood, the binding wasn't great, and it was 2 different colours of black!!!!

But, under the threat of me killing him, I gave him a second chance with my USA B.C.Rich Ironbird, which I had with me, he was NOT to respray it, get someone else to do it, remove the fretboard, replace the trussrod (DO NOT LOSE THE SERIAL NUMBER) get it working, then strip the paint and send it away for a respray. All to be done within a year!

After 3 YEARS of me phoning and asking, "How much has been done" and getting the predictable, I haven't done much, I asked "SPECIFICALLY, what have you done in the 2 months since my last phone call" NOTHING

"Right, find all the bits. I'll pick it up"

Ok, when

"NOW"

Got the bass back, all that had happened is the hardware removed, the electrics and one of the pick ups, absolutely NO work actually done to it.

I gave it to Tom Anderson and told him to just get it working

12 HOURS later, the fretboard is OFF, broken truss rod removed and a new one to be custom made, ordered.

although the respray was dropped from the list of work for now, Tom Anderson had the bass completely fixed and working in 3 weeks and 1 day, now, that is what I call service, he had told me 4 weeks to 6 weeks.

I will never use Chris Eccleshall again, which is a shame as he is such a nice guy, just useless
[/quote]

That is the guitar making business in a nutshell . Most of the people involved are nice enough, some are very skilled at what they do . , but most are bleedin' useless at organisng themselves and running an efficient business! As I've said on these pages before, it's not the kind of endevour that attracts hard-headed go-getters.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380640476' post='2228307']
It makes you wonder what the luthier saw in you to end up with a choice of a spalted wood doesn't it?
[/quote]

Ewwww!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380637784' post='2228249']
Err... you gave him a second chance?

3 years?

Err... what is wrong with you?
[/quote]

A second chance AND in the heat of the moment.

Perhaps luthiers should write reviews about their customers?

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380640587' post='2228310']
That is the guitar making business in a nutshell . Most of the people involved are nice enough, some are very skilled at what they do . , but most are bleedin' useless at organisng themselves and running an efficient business! As I've said on these pages before, it's not the kind of endevour that attracts hard-headed go-getters.
[/quote]

Totally agree, but maybe that's part of the attraction, I wouldn't have commissioned a custom from someone coming across as a 'hard-headed go-getter'. It was commissioned from a bass enthusiast who's also a talented craftsman and whose life revolves around wood.

I commissioned mine as it is using materials of a much better quality than standard (say, Fender or even 'better' than standard, say MM) but costing the same as a standard (say, Fender, and less than a 'better' than standard, say MM).

Plus I can have whatever I want and however I want it. Thoroughly enjoying the process, taking longer than going into a shop and, of course, I don't REALLY know what it's going to be like but things are pretty finely honed. I realise I'll have to keep it come what may, but anything I don't like can be changed.

If I ordered a MM or Fender bass, choosing the colour, options (however many they actually are) how long would it take to actually arrive? 2-3 months, more?

While most book matched spalted tops on sperm whale bodies are custom basses and is what is drawn to mind, not all custom basses are like this. Mine definitely is not, it's designed to be as practical as possible and within a budget.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380642513' post='2228337']
Perhaps luthiers should write reviews about their customers?
[/quote]

Now that would make for interesting reading... Theres a certain customer with the initials FW who is legendary amongst the luthier circles...

A book of the all the emails would sell for sure.

Edited October 1, 2013 by EBS_freak

[woodyratm]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1380636564' post='2228222']
*Runs in*

Glad I play a Fender

*Runs out*
[/quote]GED 'IM!