Getting a good dub sound..?

[alhbass]

Hi - I could use a little advice about getting a good, fat, dub bass sound. I've generally used more conventional tones in the past, but in my current band I can really imagine a dub sound working well. But I'm new to it, and have found that simply turning down the top end and cranking up the lows on my amp eq doesn't get a good sound.

I play a Fender Precision and a Yamaha BB1024 (both passive instruments) through a Markbass rig. I have a Markbass octaver, but dont really like the sound of the fully "wet" effect (it doesnt sound round and fat - its a bit buzzy and rough) - I like it for subtly fattening the dry signal, but that doesn't really get me where I want to be with a true dub sound.

I can't afford a different bass right now, so that's not an option - just looking to do the best I can with the tools to hand... Might be able to purchase some kind of pedal or effect if that would help tho...

Suggestions welcome. Thanks.....

[miles'tone]

Get some fat flatwounds on that Pbass, a piece of foam under the bridge to mute it a bit.
Roll a bit of treble off now while increasing the bass until it sounds sweet.
Don't be afraid to crank up the volume either.

[LLOYDWT]

If you've got an envelope filter, turn the threshold right up but the attack right down and it boosts your signal giving you some really dubby tones to play with.

[alhbass]

[quote name='LLOYDWT' timestamp='1380557245' post='2227047']
If you've got an envelope filter, turn the threshold right up but the attack right down and it boosts your signal giving you some really dubby tones to play with.
[/quote]

What kind of envelope filter, for example..?

I have a good compressor - wondering whether that might help at all?

[xilddx]

Nah, forget all that sh*t, what you need is one of my patented JAH-TONE control knob sets. Stick em on, tighten em up, and you will find the Rastaman Vibrations in your wedding vegetables. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Jah be praised. Bless up.

[xilddx]

[quote name='alhbass' timestamp='1380558038' post='2227058']
What kind of envelope filter, for example..?

I have a good compressor - wondering whether that might help at all?
[/quote]
You don't need an envelope filter. For gods sake don't use an octaver. A little compression is cool.

All depends on how you feel your dub, you HAVE to feel inspired by your sound.

Remember, all the real dub and reggae players had simple gear, and YOU can make those sounds with the kit you already have. Turn up the bass and mids to you liking (I like a bit of bite in my dubby tones), use the neck pup, cut your fingernails, and pluck near the neck. I love to use the side of my thumb, sometimes while damping by the bridge with the side of my hand at the same time.

However, it's more about what you play rather than the tone.

[thisnameistaken]

Flats is a good place to start. Leave the amp flat, roll off the tone on your bass, pluck near the fingerboard. Still not enough? Swap your tone capacitor for a .1uF. Still not enough? Blame your speakers.

[Raslee]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380558207' post='2227061']
Nah, forget all that sh*t, what you need is one of my patented JAH-TONE control knob sets. Stick em on, tighten em up, and you will find the Rastaman Vibrations in your wedding vegetables. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Jah be praised. Bless up.


[/quote]

Haha awesome...love it mate.

I'm recently playing reggae & dub again and have found love in my Fender 1974 Jazz tone, no jazz i've ever owned sounds like this old beauty - pure magical tone. I had no intentions to use this bass for reggae and wanted to use my Lakland 5 but nothing as ever sounded as warm or defined as this bass does!!!.... I try not to think about its monetary value ahem!

As for amps, i've never really liked the Markbass sound for dub but then Robbie Shakespear is endorsed by them so there must be something i'm missing. I tried the Markbass and two 15" cabs for a while a few years back and just found that their neo's seem to be missing something compared to the back breaking Ampeg speakers that i owned also at the time. That said, the Barefaced Dubster cab is a monster and disproved my beliefs about neo's. FWIW i'm using a Eden Nemesis 650a - love it through a Carvin 2x10 & and LD 4x10...plenty of air but bloody heavy

Anyhow, just play close to the neck, tone mostly down...although its good to let a bit of definition through and then DI into a giant scoop sound system and let the engineer mash it (can you tell i played a soundclash last weekend ). Listen to lots of good dub too...Dub Syndicate is a good start

Edited September 30, 2013 by Rasta

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380558700' post='2227074']
use the neck pup
[/quote]
Yup
[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380558700' post='2227074']
pluck near the neck
[/quote]
Word
[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380558700' post='2227074']
However, it's more about what you play rather than the tone.
[/quote]
Amen

I play a lot of reggae, mostly roots style, but with a couple of dubby numbers too.
It took me ages to realise that getting the tone you want is not so much boosting the frequencies that you want, rather cutting the ones that you don't want. For a nice deep reggae sound, I will leave the bass flat and cut the mids and trebles. This gets a lovely full and deep tone.

Dub is a bit different to reggae though. To me, dub is all about stripping it all back to the bone. I love the sound of flats in roots reggae but (to me) dub is not about an old school flatwound thump, but clean and close-to-the-fundamental depth with clarity and sustain. I use rounds for this, as they achieve the aforementioned clarity and sustain.

Of course, the vast majority of this is done in production. The closest I've been able to get from a bass rig is to dial out the harmonics and overtones by cutting the highs and mids substantially, but not boosting the bass. This is a bit of an ongoing mission for me, and I have a low pass filter on the way that I'm looking forward to playing around with. This enables the budding dubster to cut the harmonics right out until you feel you have the right frequencies for your needs. You can then boost the frequencies around that cutoff point for speaker-blowing madness. Even though I'm a firm advocate of cutting rather than boosting, I'm still going to have a lot of fun with it!

Edited September 30, 2013 by Roland Rock

[jazzyvee]

I also play in a reggae band and do dub sessions occasionally. My bass has low pass filters built in so getting a clean powerful dub sound from my bass is easy. I can highly recommend one of ACG filter based pre-amps for your bass they will get you down to that clean righteously powerful dub tone.

If you want the heaviest dub tone with clarity then i can highly recommend the Alembic Superfilter. Not cheap but it will do magic for your tone. There is one on ebay at the moment.
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alembic-SF2-2-Channel-Stereo-Parametric-Equaliser-/290987697302?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Outboards_Effects_MJ&hash=item43c037e496"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43c037e496[/url]

In terms of playing technique I find i get the best dub tone if I use the technique that Aston Family Man Barrett uses which is thumb on the end of the neck and use the side of your fingers to contact the string as you play, that definitely gives you a fatter more mellow tone especially with the neck pickup. If I need note articulation and tone change I just add a bit of the bridge to give me that.
[url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Aston_Barrett.JPG"]http://upload.wikime...ton_Barrett.JPG[/url]

Jazzyvee

Edited September 30, 2013 by jazzyvee

[topo morto]

Woolly mammoth + LPF set to 100 Hz. Or turn down the tone control a little and shove a sock under the strings next to the bridge.

[alhbass]

Hey all - thanks for all the tips. I suspected there might be more to it than just cranking the lows!

Thanks particularly Roland Rock - when you say "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]dub is not about an old school flatwound thump, but clean and close-to-the-fundamental depth with clarity and sustain[/font][/color]" this is exactly my feeling - at least it best describes the kind of tone I'm after. I love all sorts of vintage sounds on my basses, and they're all strung with various types of flatwounds already. But like you, I'm not particularly looking for vintage, old school sounds here - it's that spaced-out, long sustained, smooth, frighteningly deep sound I'm after. Tho no great fan of John Lydon's "singing", I've recently been listening a lot to the most recent PiL album, and love the bass sounds on that....

Anyway, I'll try some of the (cheaper) suggestions above, and keep an eye on the thread for any further contributions.

Thanks again.

[Raslee]

If you want to go down the effects root then a Zoom B3 is worth some consideration - lots of flexibility and fun. You get filters and amp modelling to play around with on the B3...it does quite a good Ampeg SVT sound which i like for recording but if you wanting modern electric bass sounds then a filter (aka Bill Laswell style) is good as previously mentioned...i really like the Moog LPF for a more modern dub sound...but then i tend to prefer the old school roots King Tubby type dub and play with a simple set up...seems to work for the modern UK Roots style dub i do too....but then its the sound system and the fingers that's doing the job, not so much my rig

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1380571452' post='2227366']
I also play in a reggae band and do dub sessions occasionally. My bass has low pass filters built in
[/quote]

Every passive bass with a tone control has a low-pass filter built in. You can make it more or less extreme by experimenting with pot impedance ratings and the capacitance rating of the tone cap. Generally the bigger the tone cap, the more high frequencies you can roll off, but the higher the pot impedance the more treble you have to start with when they're all fully open.

FWIW I settled on 500k pots across the board on my Jazz, with a .1uF tone cap, and I fitted a switch to put the pickups in series, all specifically for playing punk/reggae stuff with flats. I think it's worthwhile to get as close as you can to the sound you want on the instrument itself - then you've got more chance of getting 'your sound' out front if you get DI'd before your amp, or if you're using someone else's backline, or whatever.

Edited September 30, 2013 by thisnameistaken

[MiltyG565]

Mellow strings, mutes and use the low gain input. That's as far as my knowledge on dub goes. I've never really given it much time. Maybe if you have a compressor with a fast attack, it would make the note a lot rounder and dubbier, I suppose.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380558207' post='2227061']
Nah, forget all that sh*t, what you need is one of my patented JAH-TONE control knob sets. Stick em on, tighten em up, and you will find the Rastaman Vibrations in your wedding vegetables. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Jah be praised. Bless up.


[/quote]

That is cool! They look like Ashdown control knobs!

[LLOYDWT]

[quote name='alhbass' timestamp='1380558038' post='2227058']
What kind of envelope filter, for example..?

I have a good compressor - wondering whether that might help at all?
[/quote]

I use the compression built into my RH450 quite subtly, the envelope filter I use is an EBS one, but I think you can get a similar result from stuff like the Digitech.

[xgsjx]

The VLE on the Markbass amp is a Low Pass Filter. However, if you're wanting a beefier sound then the Moog LPF adds a shedload of depth to the sound.
I've went for a more Drum n, Bass/Dubstep sound & found that Flatwound strings, octave, dirt, LPF & a little chorus gets me what I want. But it's all about messing with gear (be that bass, amp, pedals or all them) until you get what you're after.

[bremen]

After years of trying I'm happy and so are the rest of the band (though I do get complaints of beer glasses walking off tables). Works for me, ymmv:

Precision, Wizard Thumper, Flats, play really softly at the end of the neck, 2x15s (homemade, similar to barefaced Dubster), svp pro with deep switch in and 50Hz boosted, 800w solid state power amp.

[xilddx]

[quote name='alhbass' timestamp='1380573218' post='2227410']
Hey all - thanks for all the tips. I suspected there might be more to it than just cranking the lows!

Thanks particularly Roland Rock - when you say "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]dub is not about an old school flatwound thump, but clean and close-to-the-fundamental depth with clarity and sustain[/font][/color]" this is exactly my feeling - at least it best describes the kind of tone I'm after. I love all sorts of vintage sounds on my basses, and they're all strung with various types of flatwounds already. But like you, I'm not particularly looking for vintage, old school sounds here - it's that spaced-out, long sustained, smooth, frighteningly deep sound I'm after. Tho no great fan of John Lydon's "singing", I've recently been listening a lot to the most recent PiL album, and love the bass sounds on that....

[b]Anyway, I'll try some of the (cheaper) suggestions above, and keep an eye on the thread for any further contributions.[/b]

Thanks again.
[/quote]

My JAH-TONE knobs were less than a fiver. PM me if you are interested.