Your opinion on this '85 Fullerton Ri62 jazz?

[Sumatra]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1380928081' post='2232651']
OK, my two-penneth. Firstly, the bass looks right to me for a Fullerton. The price is top dollar though for even a V00 '82. The double '0' serials are far more desirable than the V0 models, because they are generally '82, and the first year of these are more desirable, and more expensive. Without seeing the neck date, this could be anything from '84 to '89, the V0 series seemed to run forever. J's are rarer than P's. Custom colours are rarer than sunbursts. For my money, if it was an '84, and all correct, and played really nice, it would be for sale, in a store for between £1500 and £1750 GBP, similar relative price in Europe and a little less in the US (There's more there, simple as that). They are very fine instruments though, although the quality did start to drop in '84, and the '82 ones are far more desirable. Original pale tweed case with overly fluffy orange lining is a big plus. If it was me, and I wanted one of these, I'd go see it, check the pot dates, and neck date/stamps, check the pickups are original. If it was all good, played nice, sounded great, truss was free, I'd buy it, for around £1500, in todays economic climate, I'd start the haggle at less.
[/quote]

Really excellent feedback in my opinion as well

The shop says it's a '85, and says that everything is original and perfectly functional and for the moment I'll take this as true: the shop is quite well known here and it's specialized in Vintage. Before offering or buying I'll ask to let me check everything of course but I'm making any consideration assuming they know what they say and they're honest.

I asked to provide me with pics of the fingerboard thickness at the nut, explaining that I wanted to understand if the fret work was redone at some point. Once I get them I'll decide what to do. I would like as well to haggle for much less, but it is now out at 2400, and 1500 pounds are 17/1800 euro. To be honest I'm not confident I would be able to get as low..
In the Italian online market there are currently 2 or 3 out and they're pretty crazy with pricing (if compared to the prices I saw here on the market, on TalkBass or on the Guide): privates sell for about 2200, and another shop is selling for an astonishing 3000 euro........
Fender claimed-Fullerton P are all out for 2000 minimum from privates..
Maybe it's just a problem with the country I was born in.



[quote name='KK Jale' timestamp='1380933930' post='2232679']
^That's way more than two pennies' worth of advice, it's excellent.

As for me, I would find the finest '82 JV possible, for half the money. But you may already have one.
[/quote]

I don't have one but I found it. The problem is that I'm not able to test it and to my experience, especially with Fender, this is the essence. I don't trust any origin, model name, or dating when it comes to Fender: in the shop were I found the Fullerton I also tested a Custom Shop, an original '68 and an original (still IMMACULATE) '69 and the Fullerton was the best to my ears and hands.
I found really EXCELLENT mexican standard Js that to me were easily worth a Custom Shop in terms of playability and sound...



[quote name='epoxyjazzbass' timestamp='1380958457' post='2232727']
It' s not a Fullerton. If the seller want this price and pretend it' s a fullerton.... Well my advice is look elsewhere.
[/quote]

Why you say it's not a Fullerton?



thanks again,
Luca

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='KK Jale' timestamp='1380933930' post='2232679']
^That's way more than two pennies' worth of advice, it's excellent.

As for me, I would find the finest '82 JV possible, for half the money. But you may already have one.
[/quote]

ahem

[epoxyjazzbass]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380961718' post='2232768']



I don't have one but I found it. The problem is that I'm not able to test it and to my experience, especially with Fender, this is the essence. I don't trust any origin, model name, or dating when it comes to Fender: in the shop were I found the Fullerton I also tested a Custom Shop, an original '68 and an original (still IMMACULATE) '69 and the Fullerton was the best to my ears and hands.
I found really EXCELLENT mexican standard Js that to me were easily worth a Custom Shop in terms of playability and sound...





Why you say it's not a Fullerton?



thanks again,
Luca
[/quote]

To my actual knowledge, the logo and sunburst type are not fullerton. I don' t say I know everything ok ? But I suggest you to post on the fenderforum.
It' s important because even a real 85 corona fender cannot be sell as a fullerton, and the value is not the same.

Concerning your taste, if you find a mexican jazz better than a CS buy it !

I think CS reissue are the best fender ever. But they are not allways the closest to the real deal. A fullerton or a corona RI fender are sometimes closer to the real 60's fender in terms of feel and sound, more direct and simple. The CS is a sort of "boutique" fender with a detailed/complexe sound I have never find in an old fender.

[Sumatra]

[quote name='epoxyjazzbass' timestamp='1380968739' post='2232873']
To my actual knowledge, the logo and sunburst type are not fullerton. I don' t say I know everything ok ? But I suggest you to post on the fenderforum.
It' s important because even a real 85 corona fender cannot be sell as a fullerton, and the value is not the same.

Concerning your taste, if you find a mexican jazz better than a CS buy it !

I think CS reissue are the best fender ever. But they are not allways the closest to the real deal. A fullerton or a corona RI fender are sometimes closer to the real 60's fender in terms of feel and sound, more direct and simple. The CS is a sort of "boutique" fender with a detailed/complexe sound I have never find in an old fender.
[/quote]


Thanks a lot for the heads up on this, I'll sure ask also on the Fender forum!

I would have certainly bought that Mex Jazz I only it were for sale

Don't get me wrong, I do think as well that CS Fenders are generally really good, and I was very close to get one recently after trying it out. But then I tasted another 2-3 (not only jazzes, though) and not all of them were impressive to me. Maybe that's simply normal, and takes us back to the fact that you must try the instrument before getting it (and maybe for very simple passive bolt on basses where no electronic can help this could be slightly more true?), but this also left me with the strong feel that there's a big overlap between instruments "classes"..



Luca

Edited October 5, 2013 by Sumatra

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380969981' post='2232901']
Thanks a lot for the heads up on this, I'll sure ask also on the Fender forum!

I would have certainly bought that Mex Jazz I only it were for sale

Don't get me wrong, I do think as well that CS Fenders are generally really good, and I was very close to get one recently after trying it out. But then I tasted another 2-3 (not only jazzes, though) and not all of them were impressive to me. Maybe that's simply normal, and takes us back to the fact that you must try the instrument before getting it (and maybe for very simple passive bolt on basses where no electronic can help this could be slightly more true?), but this also left me with the strong feel that there's a big overlap between instruments "classes"..



Luca
[/quote] I would agree- I think sometimes it's best to ignore the classes altogether. I've played Fenders from accross the range that were dull turds of instruments, and then I've played chinese squiers that have sung like a bell. Mind you it's worth remembering that different models go for different things, my JV '57ri was obviously going for a direct copy, whereas the modern AV '57ri has a lot more modern precision feel going on.
The way I look at it, the higher up the range you go the higher the possibility of getting a great one is.

[Sumatra]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1380970359' post='2232904']
I would agree- I think sometimes it's best to ignore the classes altogether. I've played Fenders from accross the range that were dull turds of instruments, and then I've played chinese squiers that have sung like a bell. Mind you it's worth remembering that different models go for different things, my JV '57ri was obviously going for a direct copy, whereas the modern AV '57ri has a lot more modern precision feel going on.
The way I look at it, the higher up the range you go the higher the possibility of getting a great one is.
[/quote]

Yes I think that is the approach one should have..

And I also think that this is true for ALL brands, for example Fodera is no exception. I have already found Foderas that were not worth the money, and nothing better that Fenders in the same shop, and tested also some 8/9000 euro instruments that were really superb.


Guess that superior brands will show out great consistency in the level of the instruments they make, and this is why they are praised for, but this doesn't mean that each piece will be at the same level...



Luca

[Sumatra]

The shop confirmed me that the fretwork has been surely re-done at some point and this is why I have the impression that the fretboard was so thin.
Guess this should affect the value, the Guide says a good fretwork should be worth no more than a 5% price reduction...

Guess it will be very difficult to get an agreement... So sorry because I actually found myself quite well on that one, it could be a good bargain for both at the right price.


Let's see what they think about on Fender Forum.

thanks to everyone, very precious help as I expected

Luca

[Sumatra]

Guys,

if any of you is interested in this topic, I got extremely high level feedbacks from fenderforum, I believe they can be interesting in general, and specifically for who's looking for vintage guitars.

[url="http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=790145&lastpost=2013-10-0706:00:50"]http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=790145&lastpost=2013-10-0706:00:50[/url]


bye
Luca

[Sumatra]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1381180590' post='2235603']
[s]this is not a fullerton - here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/218750-stunning-62-ri/"]http://basschat.co.u...stunning-62-ri/[/url][/s]
[/quote]

? anything wrong going on with the strike through option or is it me (as usual) that I missed something.. ?

[gareth]

your bass sn is 39188 - so from the above listing you can see that on this information alone (that is without seeing the pot dates, pup dates/bottoms, neck and body dates) your bass would appear to have been made in 1989 - 4 years after production moved from fullerton to corona

[epoxyjazzbass]

I agree.

To me it's not a fullerton, serial number is too high. Also the sunburst is [u]not[/u] the typical sunburst for a fullerton. And the separate "offset contour body" detached logo is really strange... for a fullerton.

I'm quite surprised by the answer you get on fenderforum... Well, as I say "we never know everything" , but actually this is my opinion.

Perhaps some other expert will speak

Edited October 8, 2013 by epoxyjazzbass

[epoxyjazzbass]

I think it might.

[gareth]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1381216009' post='2235770']
? anything wrong going on with the strike through option or is it me (as usual) that I missed something.. ?
[/quote]
see above and should not have been struck thru

[Sumatra]

thanks guys,

really appreciate your support.
Seems like it is absolutely the case to check pots, neck and pus date to better understand what's going on with this.

As I asked to Gareth, should this be worth 1100/1250 pounds then?



thanks
Luca

[dan670844]

Could be contentious here but I thought a lot of the 80s US stuff was firewood, seriously, hit and miss sometimes, worst of the worst. Thats why they went to Japan to Fujigen for the JV series and had all production shifted there for a bit. As Fujigen turned them out as good as Leo did. Which is why Fender Japan stuff from 83-95 is appreciating in value. They are very good esp the necks.
I dont understand the emotiveness behind old Fenders even though I am exclusively a Jazz bass player. I have two pre cbs jazzes a modded mexican and a couple of late 80s early 90s japan jazzes. I cant homestly say the the early ones are any better than what the custom shop turns out these days. Pre cbs fenders where very expensive, i guess similar to price to what a custom shop job is these days. My favourite jazz is the modded mexi, plays like butter the pre cbs ones sound great but they suffer (I suffer) neck dive, which gets tiresome and they both have 7.25 finger boards i prefer the 9 of the more modern ones.
I would not buy this bass unless i played it, it could be a gem, some of them are from this period, but it is more likely a lemon, for a fullerton 80s 1000-1500 is more realistic depending on the condition. If it was me i would buy a custom shop, or head over to new york, mucho choice you will find that bass over there!

Edited October 8, 2013 by dan670844

[Sumatra]

Dan,

i'm totally with you. When I was at the shop I played a '68, a '69, another claimed-to-be 80ish (S854453 so more close to 77-78?), a custom shop and this one.
To my ears this was all the way better.
You can find gems between mexican fenders and bad 60s originals.

If that one is in good working order and I can buy it for a reasonable market value (if I manage to determine what it should be) I'm happy to take it.


Luca

[EMG456]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1381259337' post='2236682']

it was the quality of the jv's that led to the avri series
[/quote]

I worked in a music shop at the time and I had one of the first AVRI 62 Jazz's for a while. It was a great bass - much better than Fender had been turning out up to that point.

I may be wrong here - after all it's a long time ago - but my memory tells me that the US production was stopped dead and all Fender production came from Japan till they sorted out all the issues in the states. I think that the first AVRI's may have been assembled in the states from Japanese necks/ bodies and US hardware.

I also think that the Fullerton plant was where they turned it around and started producing nicer instruments again so for me, I would look far more favourably on an 80s Fullerton Fender than a 70s one.

Cheers

Ed

[Sumatra]

I also tested a CS in a different shop that I found amazing.. 60s stacked knobs, sunburst, relic.. if only it were not out for 3000 euro..........

[mikeswals]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380961718' post='2232768'] Really excellent feedback in my opinion as well The shop says it's a '85, and says that everything is original and perfectly functional and for the moment I'll take this as true:............................................................................................................ Why you say it's not a Fullerton? thanks again, Luca [/quote] It is not a Fullerton because 1) Fullerton reissue basses only lasted from 1982-1984. Fender/CBS sold the company in January 1985, and the new FMIC was not making them in 85 because the machinery nor the facility was not part of the sale. They started back up in '86, and switched to using CNC machines. 2) V03 serial number is no where near Fullerton serials, which stopped before V02. I estimate that bass being an '87-'88 FMIC era bass. All of these stack knob Jazz Basses from '82 up until '89/'90 have pots stamped 1982 because CBS bought so many in '82, it took so many years to finally use them up. Yes that is a very complete and original bass, just not a Fullerton

Edited October 10, 2013 by mikeswals

[mikeswals]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1381258046' post='2236650']
When I was at the shop I played a '68, a '69, another claimed-to-be 80ish (S854453 so more close to 77-78?), [/quote] It could very well be a '80 model. The most misquoted serial series is the S8 serials, so many think it means 1978. It does not....the S8 serials spanned from '78 until well into '82.

[gareth]

[quote name='mikeswals' timestamp='1381394494' post='2238329']
It is not a Fullerton because 1) Fullerton reissue basses only lasted from 1982-1984. Fender/CBS sold the company in January 1985, and the new FMIC was not making them in 85 because the machinery nor the facility was not part of the sale. They started back up in '86, and switched to using CNC machines. 2) V03 serial number is no where near Fullerton serials, which stopped before V02. I estimate that bass being an '87-'88 FMIC era bass. All of these stack knob Jazz Basses from '82 up until '89/'90 have pots stamped 1982 because CBS bought so many in '82, it took so many years to finally use them up. Yes that is a very complete and original bass, just not a Fullerton
[/quote]
[quote name='mikeswals' timestamp='1381394739' post='2238334']
It could very well be a '80 model. The most misquoted serial series is the S8 serials, so many think it means 1978. It does not....the S8 serials spanned from '78 until well into '82.
[/quote]
good posts

[Sumatra]

Guys,

for anyone's interested: I went to the shop again. I didn't manage to remove neck/pus/pots to check dates, but the shop attendant was confirming that the bass was not actually manufactured at fullerton.
I didn't spend time or words discussing about the fact that this was what they actually wrote on their website and it was somewhat odd that they claimed for that knowing this was not true.. I only told them that my main problem was with price, that the bass sounded good but I didn't have all that money, especially since we were concluding the bass was not actually a fullerton but a standard AVRI.

The attendant started to say that actually this was a bass for players and not for collection, that it played really good and that at the end of the day this bass was comparable to a custom shop, maybe better playing, with more mojo, but at a similar price range (they have a custom shop out for 2250 euro, on the italian market they can be found with no major difficulties at around 2000 euro).

Another attendant of the shop (not sure if one of them is the boss or if they're both owners) came into the discussion telling me that they already had another interested guy that was already convinced of everything and was coming back in few days to take the bass at these conditions so they couldn't lower the price now..


I left the bass were it was. Honestly I don't know if it makes sense or not to value an instrument of its sound, and leave brands and model a part as they are secondary. They are for sure secondary when you find the bass that plays as you like, I'm not really convinced that it is the same when it comes to money...


nice story, for me at least..
thanks to all of you for your help,
Luca


Edit: spelling

Edited October 13, 2013 by Sumatra

[bh2]

Well... that's interesting.

Sounds a hell of a price for a standard AVRI to my ears.
Those bridge saddles would still bother me too.

Sounds like they were doing a bit of wool pulling...

[epoxyjazzbass]

[quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1381674329' post='2242082']
Guys,

for anyone's interested: I went to the shop again. I didn't manage to remove neck/pus/pots to check dates, but the shop attendant was confirming that the bass was not actually manufactured at fullerton.
I didn't spend time or words discussing about the fact that this was what they actually wrote on their website and it was somewhat odd that they claimed for that knowing this was not true.. I only told them that my main problem was with price, that the bass sounded good but I didn't have all that money, especially since we were concluding the bass was not actually a fullerton but a standard AVRI.

[/quote]

I hate those sellers, putting wrong infos deliberatly... Especially when the price is more than the double of the real market value, and you know they exactly know what they are doing, horrible.

About the musical quality of the bass, I need a few months of playing, testing situations, set of strings and setup to really know if a bass is the one.
Because I' ve tried bass that can give me a great feel in a shop, but last week, in the same shop, they didn' t. To much factors. weather (temperature, humidity), setup of the bass, me and my sentitivity of the day (If I want to play or not really...)
And It' s also true about bass I' m not immediatly impressed by at first time and then, with time I appreciate.
But it' s of course possible to be able to evaluate an instrument with experience; I just want to say accuracy need time.

But well, it's not a fullerton, it's a corona so : about 1000£ if it' s a good one. And there is a lot of good corona RI62 on the used market...

[Sumatra]

I completely agree.

I still want to believe that there's an explanation for that and they are not simply deliberately trying to get money out of a misunderstanding.


Thanks
Luca