Some vintage Washburn info for you

[MEKer]

The pic below was posted in Jan 2011 by Bassassin. I saw it was mis-labeled and put some correct info on his bass for him to know what he really had. Hope he still has it. Truly a great and beautiful bass.
He said:
"Anyway - 1982 Washburn SB40 Vulture II, a bit more obscure than the near-identical Force 40, I suppose...



J.

Looking at this older post here and noticed you think it is an "SB40 Vulture II". So to set the record straight, this beautiful bass is a Washburn B-40 (1980-1983). The SB-40's and the Vulture II's are 2 separate and different basses altogether. The Force 40's have the Force series headstock and the SB-40 electrical package--not very identical actually. Here is a listing for you of the Washburn basses from 1980-85 involving "B" series basses (and the others):

[b][size=3]1980: [/size][/b][size=3]Introducing the [i][b]B-40 Wing Series [/b][/i]with the Vulture II electrical package (4 pots and toggle), B-20 Stage basses begin along with the 8-string B-20-8 Stage bass (Scavenger,Vulture I and II still being sold).

[b]1981[/b]: same models as 1980 along with the new Wing series SB-40 (electrical package is 3 pots/toggle/mini-switch and later adopted by all Force 40s and the B-40 EQ/EQW)

[b]1982:[/b] the Wing series SB-40EQ replaces SB-40 but same as the '81 SB-40( with the possible exception that the 40 had brushed aluminum cavity plates and the 40EQ did not as far as I can determine), the [b][i]Wing series B-40[/i][/b], the [b][i]Force-40-headstocked B-40EQW[/i][/b] with SB-40 electrical package, the Force 40EQ (also SB-40 elec pkg except for a very few with the B-40 [/size][size=3][size=3]elec [/size]package), Force 8 and Force 4, the B-20's little brother B-5 Stage bass introduced (Scavenger,Vulture I and II still being sold)

[b]1983:[/b] [b][i]Wing series B-40[/i][/b], [b][i]Force series B-40EQW[/i][/b], the regular Force 40 begins, Force 4's and 8's and B-20's/5's (Vulture I and II still being sold as well)

[b]1984:[/b] Regular Force 40's, introducing B-20 Stage BBR and B-5 Stage BBR and Force 40 BBRs and Force 8 BBR (single pup)--BBR'd completely: body, neck and headstock --only in 1984.[b][i]Last year for the B-40EQW[/i][/b]. Vulture II still in production. (guitars also BBR’d: HM models, Hawk, Tour 24, [/size][size=3][size=3][size=3]Force 6, FV-20V, [/size][/size]A series to include A-20/20V, A-23K, A-20K, A-5V, [/size][size=3] etc)


[b]1985:[/b][i][b] Now we have the Force series B-40EQ[/b][/i], Force 4+8, the B-5 Stage bass...and the only Bass BBR is the Force 8 BBR which is NOT BBR'd on the maple fretboard neck--so its a partial BBR. NO more regular Force 40's or B-20's!(someone please show me a 1985 one and I'll change this, but do not believe so). Several guitars, however, were still BBR’d (HM models, Tour 24, some A series, Force 6)[/size]

[size=3]Boyohboy---hang on to that B-40 if you can. Gorgeous, one of thre best I've seen. It was fantastically well-built in the Matsumoko factory in Japan. Quite a bass. [b]What's the serial number? [/b]And more pictures please?? As a vintage Washburn historian, I can be reached at [email protected] [/size] "

Edited October 3, 2013 by MEKer

[LukeFRC]

I miss bassassin.

[alittlebitrobot]

I'm fairly sure that's the fretted version of the bass Bakithi played on Graceland. If so, then that is one of the nicest-sounding basses ever made even if it's not aesthetically my cup of tea.
http://youtu.be/Hk7MCvCHNQA

[MEKer]

You are correct--he did play a B-40 Fretless. He talks about it in a couple of books. He actually bought it--I think he said-- as his first bass in his native country because it was just there in an old store and everyone was afraid to get it since it was fretless. He could afford it and so he bought it. That's his story he tells in a couple of interviews. Odd also is that it is occasionallty refered to as an SB-40 although it most certainly is not. But he calls it by its right name--B-40--in the interviews.

Edited October 6, 2013 by MEKer

[EMG456]

Interesting...

I watched the Graceland Imagine documentary on the Beeb recently and while I remembered Mr Kumalo using a Washburn fretless at the time, I didn't know what the model was.

If you look at the footage carefully, you will see that whilst the body/ neck is basically the same as the beautiful example pictured above, the pickup positions are quite different.

the Jazz pickup at the bridge is very close to the bridge - much closer than this B-40- and the Precision pickup on Bakithi's bass is much closer to the end of the fingerboard with the orientation reversed - ie the E and A string pickup is closer to the neck than the D and G one. You can see this during his solo at around 2:17 in the video above.

Bakithi himself says it's a B-20 - see this interview at [url="http://www.fretlessbass.com/KumaloBakithiInterview-01.html"]www.fretlessbass.com[/url]

Either way, there seem to be very few of these around - nice basses.

Ed

[Bassassin]

Hi MEKer - sorry for not responding to this and any of your previous posts about vintage Washboards sooner, but I've been away from BC for some considerable time and have a bit of catching up to do. Like a transgender friend once remarked "I've been abroad - but I got better".

Anyway, any new info about vintage basses & guitars of Japanese origin is always interesting and often useful - but frequently the result is only more confusion & apparent contradiction, and I fear that may well be the case here. My assertion that my bass is an SB-40 is not just conjecture, you see, I asked it and this is what it told me:



According to the guys on the Matsumoku.org boards - many of whom have forgotten more than I ever knew - the "Vulture II" tag is kind of unofficial, and used to indicate this bass as a successor to the preceding symmetrical-bodied Vulture model.

My bass is from 1982 (sn 820310) and is quite different in detail from the earlier models. Check out the Vulture II in this thread on the Mat forum:

[url="http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8936"]http://www.matsumoku...php?f=29&t=8936[/url]

Although basically the the same model there are some major differences, most notably the pickup positioning. Control & truss covers are made from wood veneer and the hardware is quite different. On my bass the control cover's black painted aluminium, and the hardware is very high quality - a massive Chushin Gakki bridge and Schaller M4S clone tuners.

It's pretty much assumed in the Mat community that these early Washburns like the one in the link were actually made by Yamaki, not Matsumoku - in terms of construction, detailing & hardware they are often near-identical to Yamaki's Daion range.

My first quality bass many years ago was a 1981 Washburn B20 Stage - it had identical hardware, covers, control and pickup layout to the V2 in the link. I'd say that was a Yamaki-manufactured example, and my current SB40, made the next year, is an early Matsumoku, possibly a transitional model between the 2 factories.

Jon.

[Karnage]

[quote name='alittlebitrobot' timestamp='1380831950' post='2231380']
I'm fairly sure that's the fretted version of the bass Bakithi played on Graceland. If so, then that is one of the nicest-sounding basses ever made even if it's not aesthetically my cup of tea.
[/quote]
It's great when he plays it, he makes that bass talk. A truly exceptional player from my point of view. He knows just how the make use of the 'bloom' in his fretless, especially on a couple of the tracks on Graceland. Love the taste in his playing.

[MEKer]

Hi Bassassin----Glad you got back to me on this. Thank you very much!! I have several examples of your bass being called SB-40, SB-40EQ , Vulture II and even SB40 Vulture. Some even have the truss rod cover saying so.
I will give you some pictures here but first, a couple of points:
1. In Nov 1980 I bought my (Wing series) SB-40, a new model being intro'd for 1981. I still have it (see picture). It also introduced a new electronics package of 3 pots, 1 toggle and 1 mini-switch. This electronics package was then adopted thru 1985 on the B-40EQ and EQW, The Force 40EQ/EWQ and plain 40.
2. In 1982 they came out with the (Wing series) SB-40EQ, same bass as the 1981 SB-40 model, except it does not have brushed aluminum cavity covers. Note your bass's serial number is a 1982 number. Yet you have a 1981 truss rod cover name on it. Actually a not really rare factory error.
3. The (Wing series) B-40 officially came out in 1980 (until 1983) with the Vulture II electronics package of 4 pots and 1 toggle switch. But it finally had the first "fender-style" body for Washburn. In the last year of production, they also introduced the B-40EQ but with the Force series head and the SB-40 elec package. Regular B-40's, btw, NEVER have their name on them, just like the original Scavengers and Vultures I and II basses and 1978-1982 guitars did not.

Btw, the picture of the "Vulture" belongs to Mitril over at Talkbass. Also a B-40 like yours. Unfortunately there are a lot of bad errors in most all the "vintage Washburn" sites. I have been researching for several years and hope to get a book out on it when I have a few more mysteries cleared up. Hard to do tho since all records were destroyed in 1988 (from 1987 on back). But I have accumulated hundreds of photos, ads, catalog pages, serial numbers, etc, so I am gettin' there. The amount of mistakes and anomolies Washburn did on these quality instruments is amazing, even some of their own ads are wrong.

Anyway, you most certainly do have a classic, Wing series, B-40 wearing the wrong year anyhow SB-40 name. But that's just fine---its in fantastic shape and gorgeous and you have one of the factory error names. Very cool. B-20 Stage Basses--so very well made, I just could not handle the neck dive and the "v" neck shape. But truly works of art. I wish I'd kept mine just for that reason alone.
So--Pictures are me with my original SB-40, typical B-40 (1981), 1982 SB-40EQ, Vulture II

Hope that helps and I'd never sell that beauty personally.

Edited October 29, 2013 by MEKer

[Bassassin]

Very interesting research, MEKer, but I'm a little concerned that you're looking for absolute answers where there aren't any to be found! What it's important to remember is that any errors, inconsistencies and seemingly random changes in design, production and naming of these instruments are probably very little to do with "Washburn". When manufacture was contracted out to Japan in the late 70s, it's very likely that Washburn did business through a Japanese intermediary trading company which would have taken responsibility for sourcing manufacture, promotion and global distribution, much like Fender did when they contracted Kanda Shokai to handle the business end of Fender Japan.

Some of the dates you mention are of interest - the plain truss rod covers from 1978 - 82 (ish) seem consistent with those instruments probably manufactured by Yamaki, which often have wooden covers to match the headstock veneer. Also the lack of records from 1987 backwards is consistent with the history of the Matsumoku factory, which ceased guitar production in 1986 and closed down in '87.

I've been trying to get my head around the tangled & confused history of Japanese guitar manufacture for a very long time, and have learned to accept all the contradictions and incosistencies with a degree of Oriental-wannabe stoicism! The confusion around Washburn models & manufacture is reflected across the history of most of the brands, factories and distributors of the era, and can make it hard to fathom the big picture from all the conflicting details!

If I were researching the specific history of MIJ Washburn, I'd try & find out which Japanese trading company handled the manufacture of the instruments - if they're still going (and many of them still are) they might be able to give you useful information.

Btw - what do you think of the Moridaira - built Washburn Wing copies?

J.

[Stacatto]

MEKer, thanks for the reply. I'm learning so much, here.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Stacatto

[MEKer]

Hiya Bassassin---
Yep, sure thing there are inconsistencies found in the research. But the simple business fact remains that when Washburn contracted instruments to Yamaki and Matsumoko, they did exactly that; they contracted for Scavengers, Vulture I's, Vulture II's, B-20's, A-series, Raven's Hawks and Eagles, etc etc--within,and for, certain periods of time---like any other business. Generally it came out pretty darn well for the thousands and thousands of instruments made, with just a few mistakes such as the uncommon mis-labled instruments, an error in SN or no SN at all.

Such mistakes did not mean the mis-labeled instrument was no longer what it was made to be and now took on the identity of the wrong label put on it. A B-40 is a B-40 is a B-40. A Vulture II is a Vulture II is a Vulture II. An SB-40 40 is an SB-40 is an SB-40. The differences between models are quite distinct.
Your B-40 has a wrong truss rod cover on it. That does mean the B-40 is no longer a B-40. I cannot say it simpler than that.

My SB-40 is an SB-40, bought original on roll-out to the market in autumn 1980. The electrical packages are distinctly different. They are 2 different basses--regardless of people calling them by incorrect names. I have seen many instances of SB-40's being called Vultures. Thats so ridiculous. They too are so very distinctly different models.

I have established the models available 1978-1985 with great certitude, and years of production. I am constantly searching for anything to change the data if needed and will continue to do so. This includes keeping track of errors, even those in Washburn's own ads where a Wing series instrument is called a "Force" series instrument. Talk about blatant error.

The issues of Yamaki/Matsumoko are corporate entanglments only such as which factory did how many of any particular model and for how long within the life of the model. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. And you are correct, that may be unsolvable. I have searched for years for contacts and documents to no avail

As to lost records, I am referring to Washburn itself, corporate HQ in Chicago, who, they themselves, ordered the tossing out of all records 1987 on back, due to the unwanted work load of digitizing them. Washburn themselves told me that was the reason and that they also regret that move by those then in charge.

Anyway, enough on this. You have a great B-40. I have a great SB-40. And on Talkbass we have an interesting list being built that is up to 58 different models being owned by our Washburn club members.

Edited October 30, 2013 by MEKer

[Bassassin]

I'm certainly not going to quibble over model designations - mine's a lovely bass, and acquiring it in the first place was a ridiculous stroke of luck - the story's here on BC somewhere, I'll try & find a link.

It's not without its issues though, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure the bridge J type pickup's not original - it's much lower output than the P-type and sounds quite "cheap", very thin & nasal. Do you have any specifications for the original equipment pickups on these basses? It's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to find an exact replacement, but it might help me choose something better than what's presently there. Point of interest - the J pickup is a narrow neck-width unit to accomodate the narrow string spacing of the bridge. I wonder if the earlier models with the chrome & brass bridges had the same spacing.

A personal preference here, but I'm probably going to modify the circuitry of mine - reversible of course - because I really don't like a pickup selector toggle on a bass, it seems pointless and I find it can make getting a balanced tone from both pickups unduly fiddly. I'll probably wire them with individual V & T and fill the empty hole with a phase switch for the P unit.

There's another BC member who has (or had) what I think is a Force 42 BBR - headless with the black/red finish. He offered it to me a few years ago, when I could neither afford it of had room for it - wonder if he still has it now?

J.

[MEKer]

Heya Bassassin-----What I can do is have some of my Talkbass buddies give me the values of the components in their B-40s that are original. You could make a comparison, perhaps and go from there. Hmm, someone else did a mod they found to strengthen their tone also. Lemme check it out for you and ask what he did to strengthen his tone there.

A Force 42 BBR! Gawd, now I'd like to see that one! I try to collect info on all BBR's as a specific grouping(I also own a Force 40 BBR which I DEARLY love) and have quite a list of models, but no Force 42 yet. Any chance the owner is in any forum to contact for some pics and serial number?

Edited October 30, 2013 by MEKer

[MEKer]

Bassassin---as to the J pup you mentioned on your B40-----here is a "satisfied customer" comment I'll pass on:
"Check out a DiMarzio Ultra J, wired in series. Loud, thick, and hum free!"

I just bought a B-40 yesterday (1981) and will definitiely check out the J pup myself--and prob go with the above as I know they are great quality and do not break the bank at the same time.

[Bassassin]

Thanks very much for that, MEKer - I have old DiMarzio Model Js on my Jazz, love them and was leaning that way anyway, will see what sort of deal I can get on an Ultra.

Re the Force 42, here's a link to the original thread, unfortunately the pics aren't there any more:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/77957-washburn-relic/"]http://basschat.co.u...washburn-relic/[/url]

Bassuklike66 is still active on here so hopefully still has the bass.

J.

[AndyTravis]

I still covet one of these basses.

[AndyTravis]

Just bought one 😏

Mine's 3 pot/toggle

Edited March 20, 2016 by AndyTravis

[Bassassin]

Excellent!

Pics or it didn't happen, obviously.

J.

[AndyTravis]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1458514679' post='3008297']
Excellent!

Pics or it didn't happen, obviously.

J.
[/quote]

Will do when it arrives. Think it needs a bit doing to it internally.

Also, is it sacrelidgious to defret it?

Edited March 20, 2016 by AndyTravis

[Bassassin]

Ahh, depends really. My kneejerk is to say yes - considering how rare these things are, any major modding seems just - wrong! However, I think I'm right in thinking it's a Bakithi thing for you? In which case I do understand why you'd want it fretless...

Is this yours? [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-Vintage-Washburn-SB40-Bass-with-Hard-Case-for-Service-/272168718865"]http://www.ebay.co.u...e-/272168718865[/url]

J.

[AndyTravis]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1458524419' post='3008331']
Ahh, depends really. My kneejerk is to say yes - considering how rare these things are, any major modding seems just - wrong! However, I think I'm right in thinking it's a Bakithi thing for you? In which case I do understand why you'd want it fretless...

Is this yours? [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-Vintage-Washburn-SB40-Bass-with-Hard-Case-for-Service-/272168718865"]http://www.ebay.co.u...e-/272168718865[/url]

J.
[/quote]

Yeah. Bit much really. We'll see when it gets here.

[Bassassin]

Well, they're not exactly ten-a-penny, and to balance it out they are exceptionally high-quality. Mine is still the bass I pick up most often at home - and I do have some considerable choice!

With luck the electronics problem will turn out to be something straightforward - the seller doesn't give the impression he has much of an idea what to look for.

Interesting that the bridge has been replaced on yours (with a high-quality Gotoh, same as those used on early MIJ Ibanez SRs), and I wonder if this is because it had the same high-action issue as mine did when I got it. I filed the saddle slots on mine to get it down, but a lower-profile bridge might have been a quicker fix.

Apart from the electronics yours is identical to mine - a later production than Bakithi's which looks to be an early Yamaki-built example:

[url="http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/LanterneRouge/media/Random/bakithi-washburn_zpsxomvtabq.jpg.html"][/url]

The most obvious differences are the pickup placement - J unit very close to the bridge, and P unit non-reversed and nearer the neck - and the v/v/t/t + selector passive electronics, making the bass a B-40, according to our US correspondent upthread.

It occurs to me that with the active circuit (assuming it works) & pickup placement on yours, you might struggle to nail Bakithi's tone. I'd probably bin the actives if they don't work, and wire it v/v/t with a phase reverse on the P unit.

J.