Using backing tracks?

[martthebass]

Just looking for a bit of validation really. I always played in 'live' bands until about 12 years ago..then up, up in my neck of the woods, work dried up somewhat. Shortly after leaving my 5 piece rock covers band I joined a duo (to become a trio) consisting of guitar, bass (obviously) and vox along with backing tracks. This worked well for 10 years and then folded for various reasons.

For the last couple of years I've played in 2/3 live bands of various genres but work has started to get hard to find again and the recent re-surrgence of cheap (and generally poor) single acts has opened up the market for part live again. Because of this I find myself in a duo with backing to fill in the free weekends between live band gigs. What's the BC feeling on this am I 'selling out' or 'keeping myself busy'? I'll always admit I prefer the buzz I get from live but I don't dislike the backing side of things if the act is done well.

[CamdenRob]

Do what you've got to do to pay the rent..... I don't see how anyone could criticize you for that.

[gjones]

The punters can't tell the difference. I have a drummer friend who was paid to turn up at a gig and mime to backing tracks (good work if you can get it). Nobody in the audience noticed and the manager of the venue, who'd specifically asked for a live band, didn't twig to the fact that the (supposedly) live band was miming.

[KevB]

Plenty of folks earn decent money doing it that way, I did a duo gig for the Diamond Jubilee in a little gazebo that wouldn't have fitted a live drummer if we could have found one. In fact the (trio) house band I'm doing jam sessions with might have a go at augmenting the set with some backing, principally keys and brass sections with the drummer working to a click, just for a bit of variety.

[barkin]

If the punters are OK with it, and you get what you want/need from it, does it really matter what anybody else thinks?

[neepheid]

As a punter (and clearly I'm not supposed to notice these things) I prefer people not to use backing tracks. This informs my opinion as a player too. If you want strings, get some strings players in. If you want a horn section, go get one. Want keys? You know what to do. Much better sounding and visually engaging than a backing track.

I'm not looking down my nose at anyone who wants to use them, but it's not how I like to see business done.

[discreet]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1380804087' post='2230779']
The punters can't tell the difference.
[/quote]

This. Most people can't tell the difference between their arses and a hole in the ground. It's down you whether you think it's valid or not. Personally I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. If it sounds good then it [i]is[/i] good.

Name acts who mime to a full backing track (including vocals) are an abomination however, and should be lashed until they drop.

Edited October 3, 2013 by discreet

[JTUK]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380807363' post='2230854']
As a punter (and clearly I'm not supposed to notice these things) I prefer people not to use backing tracks. This informs my opinion as a player too. If you want strings, get some strings players in. If you want a horn section, go get one. Want keys? You know what to do. Much better sounding and visually engaging than a backing track.

.............
[/quote]

Yep, live is live... and you know when it gets silly when a band says the numbers that go down the best have parts
flown in to make it what it is...
So.. I am not a fan but when the embellishment makes ALL the difference that is when it feels like a cheat.

Not talking about duos, .. but bands deffo.

[woodyratm]

I have no problem with them - in fact we tend to use them often.

We've tried adding other musicians but it just wasn't as good as the 4 (or 3) of us. We would never use guitar/bass/drum backing tracks though. We're trying to salvage a song we wrote, but its all on piano!

[Mog]

Is it selling out? No. Only a bedroom player or noob with extremely high regard for their own ability would make a statement like that. A good mate of mine does the one man thing (and does it very well!). He sometimes finds it hard to get gigs because the pub owners want the look of a band at the price of a one man/duo act. IME punters can tell the difference when it comes to backing tracks. These days nobody wants to hear an 808 sounding drum beat or a bad synth bassline. It's become too easy to record your own backing tracks which is something I would recommend strongly.

[bonzodog]

I spent 15 years as a solo singer to backing tracks and now I am back playing bass in a live band where I started 20 years ago.
It is a great way to earn a living as I was doing it three times a week, most weeks and could have easily quit my day job. I always did feel I was putting bands out of business at the time as I was half the price of an average band, and like has already been said, punters don't know the difference.

The only negative is as you are playing the songs parrot fashion to the backing track it does get very boring so you need to change your set around regularly. I also did really miss the live band banter which is the main reason I'm back playing live again.

You can also get more work where a band with a drummer is not feasible for size or volume reasons.

[jamesbass116]

My 4 piece band (Vox/Gtr & BVs/Bass & BVs/Drums & BVs) uses pre recorded backing track/sequences we made to fill out the parts we can't do in songs. Stuff like second guitar/keys/percussion/horns.
We're pushing to get into the mainstream so 4 piece is the perfect "look".
If that's the kind of backing track you're talking about then there's no problem with it if, like you said, it's done well!

Frankly I strongly disagree with what some of the other people are saying in this thread, because sometimes having the extra people "brought in" can really upset the balance and image of a band. We used to have a keys player and while he was the best I've ever heard and will soon be one of the most sought after in the UK, we chucked him out cos he upset the balance.
Maybe for festival/arena gigs we'll bring in extra everything, but we're not gonna do that for gigs around shoreditch etc on all the venue's tiny stages... It just isn't practical. So we'll just stick with our high quality sequences that DO make the songs sound better.

No offence to the other guys (everyone's allowed their opinions) but I really don't think they "get" the effort that has to go into playing live and adding lots of extra instruments. Especially for a mainstream band where everything has to be clean and shiny. People need to understand that the only time aux instruments are really used anyway is for the bigger gigs because it's rarely practical for them to be used all the time in the smaller venues around London.

I know I'd rather see 4 guys enjoying themselves and still playing their songs completely live apart from a few keys/horn parts than god knows how many people crammed onto stages just for it to be "authentic". That's such a prudish and snobby way of looking at live music. Live music is constantly developing and people need to come to terms with that.

[leftybassman392]

Don't big name bands do it? (I'm assuming that the OP has in mind the notion of top level players massaging their onstage sound a little, and not just the glorified karaoke seen in so many pubs & clubs...?)

Edited October 4, 2013 by leftybassman392

[monkeynuts]

Interesting this one as this is something I am looking at right now. Trying to find a keys player is a nightmare. As we are only looking to do 2 gigs a month we seem to find great players but they want to do several gigs a week or people happy with 2 gigs a month but are just not up to it.

Just starting to investigate the possibility of adding the keys/horns sections on backing tracks but this concept is completely alien to us all really as we have never tried anything like this. One of my worries is the stigma attached to the whole backing track usage even though it is commonplace.

[Lord Sausage]

I've a mate in a wedding band and sometimes they would get booked for duo or trio. Where they would play to backing tracks, well sing to them. My mate just mimed keyboards. He's a bass player, hasn't got a clue about playing keyboard and he was getting north of £150. I thought Lucky Bastard. The only people who having any right moaning about selling out is naive idealistic teenagers.

[LeftyJ]

My band plays live with a clicktrack on the in-ear system and all synths and backing vocals on a backing track. Works great, sounds great, and only once did anyone ever comment "Too bad there's no keyboardist in the band" (in an album review, not even at a gig ). Mind you, the keys were not programmed but recorded by a real keyboard player.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm going to go the other way I'm afraid Mart. The guy i used to play for wanted to use backing track drums and i refused to do it, if i can't play of the drums and interact with the band it's not for me, I'd rather do an acoustic version than a rock version with backing track drums :-(

[neepheid]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1380872737' post='2231659']
No offence to the other guys (everyone's allowed their opinions) but [b]I really don't think they "get" the effort that has to go into playing live and adding lots of extra instruments[/b]. Especially for a mainstream band where everything has to be clean and shiny. People need to understand that the only time aux instruments are really used anyway is for the bigger gigs because it's rarely practical for them to be used all the time in the smaller venues around London.

I know I'd rather see 4 guys enjoying themselves and still playing their songs completely live apart from a few keys/horn parts than god knows how many people crammed onto stages just for it to be "authentic". That's such a prudish and snobby way of looking at live music. Live music is constantly developing and people need to come to terms with that.
[/quote]

I get it. I'm in a band with keys, sax and trombone. It does take extra work, but I don't find it difficult because we're all competent musicians and I find the results most satisfying. As far as I'm concerned, no backing track can make up for the sound in particular but also sight of someone playing the hell out of a saxophone, or nearly decapitating someone with a trombone slide

It's got nothing to do with snobbery. For me, live music is a visual show as well as an aural one. I like watching people play instruments, observing the mechanics of playing, gear spotting and the like. I don't go to a gig expecting note perfect renditions of pre-recorded music. I expressed a preference for seeing people doing something to create the sounds I am hearing when I go see a live band. I don't understand what your problem is with that, it's an opinion and I do not think any less of anyone who has a different opinion to me. I'm not saying you're wrong, so I would appreciate it if you could afford me the same courtesy. You're coming across to me as rather overbearing and intolerant and I can't say that I care for it.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380807363' post='2230854']
As a punter (and clearly I'm not supposed to notice these things) I prefer people not to use backing tracks. This informs my opinion as a player too. If you want strings, get some strings players in. If you want a horn section, go get one. Want keys? You know what to do. Much better sounding and visually engaging than a backing track.

I'm not looking down my nose at anyone who wants to use them, but it's not how I like to see business done.
[/quote]

That's a lovely idea in theory and in an ideal world I'd agree with you, but it's unrealistic and totally impractical for most amateur/semi-pro bands.

Out of 20 odd songs we have one with some brass parts, about 3 with some strings and maybe another 5 with some synths, so we use backing for those songs to supplement our piano, drums, guitar and keys lineup. It sounds fine and works well.

[neepheid]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1380884399' post='2231870']
That's a lovely idea in theory and in an ideal world I'd agree with you, but it's unrealistic and totally impractical for most amateur/semi-pro bands.

Out of 20 odd songs we have one with some brass parts, about 3 with some strings and maybe another 5 with some synths, so we use backing for those songs to supplement our piano, drums, guitar and keys lineup. It sounds fine and works well.
[/quote]

I'm glad that you feel it's working out for you and you should definitely keep on doing what you feel is best, but seeing your band live would irritate me because I would be hearing sounds that I cannot attribute to someone performing an action of some sort other than pressing a play button. Sorry about that. That's all I've been saying all along.

I know you said "most" but for what it's worth (and at the risk of seeming argumentative), I don't find being in an amateur band with keys, sax and trombone unrealistic or impractical in the slightest.

[tinyd]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380887932' post='2231921']
I'm glad that you feel it's working out for you and you should definitely keep on doing what you feel is best, but seeing your band live would irritate me because I would be hearing sounds that I cannot attribute to someone performing an action of some sort other than pressing a play button. Sorry about that. That's all I've been saying all along.
[/quote]

I agree in that I usually find bands with backing personally irritating to listen to...having said that though, I was at a New Year's Eve function a few years back and the band (backing and all) were excellent and I had a great night. So maybe there are times when I need to bury my "inner muso" and just have fun

[dougal]

It's a funny one.

I, personally, prefer not to play with backing tracks, but I'm quite happy for the keys player to play the horn parts (e.g. we do 'one step beyond' and the keys player plays the song whilst the singer 'mimes' on a plastic toy saxophone)

But to the OP: you have to sell what you have, and this sounds perfectly legit to me. I'd play with backing tracks over not playing at all.

[xilddx]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380807363' post='2230854']
[b]As a punter (and clearly I'm not supposed to notice these things) I prefer people not to use backing tracks. This informs my opinion as a player too. If you want strings, get some strings players in. If you want a horn section, go get one. Want keys? You know what to do. Much better sounding and visually engaging than a backing track.[/b]

I'm not looking down my nose at anyone who wants to use them, but it's not how I like to see business done.
[/quote]

Sorry mate, this is mostly nonsense. And you are looking only at western instrumentation and ignoring very obvious impracticalities. One of my bands is a six-piece African-electro-dance outfit and we use backing tracks/triggers for percussion and melodic loops, and complex backing vocals. We have a drummer and a percussionist, and sax, keys, bass, vocals, but the music needs the extra textures of the backing tracks. We kick arse live, we look busy on stage, and we get people dancing, they couldn't care less if we have backing tracks.

Also, the backing vocals are our former lead vocalist who died three years ago (her daughter now sings lead), so unless you can think of a way of getting dead people to sing and dance, we are kinda stuck with the backing tracks.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380887932' post='2231921']
I'm glad that you feel it's working out for you and you should definitely keep on doing what you feel is best, but seeing your band live would irritate me because I would be hearing sounds that I cannot attribute to someone performing an action of some sort other than pressing a play button. Sorry about that. That's all I've been saying all along.

I know you said "most" but for what it's worth (and at the risk of seeming argumentative), I don't find being in an amateur band with keys, sax and trombone unrealistic or impractical in the slightest.
[/quote]

Would it irritate you less if we had someone MIMING to the pre-recorded parts? Would that make you feel like you were getting your money's worth?

[neepheid]

If everyone could stop telling me that my personal preferences are wrong, I'd be most grateful.