Dunlop Bass Wah 105Q - tone sucking? Alternative?

[mcnach]

* note to self: don't encourage uncle_psychosis

Ok... wah ordered!!!!

It was hard to choose without trying one in person, so this may well be not the last of the series, as I may still return the pedal and get something else... but we will see.

I liked the demos of the EBS wahs... but the wolume was not adjustable and I read a few comments about it being a little quieter than the dry signal. That, coupled to the high price, made me discard them for now.

I was very curious about the G-Labs solutions. Great reviews all over. The platform alone would allow me to use my existing wah (Dunlop 105Q) which I like the sound of. Or I could get their Wowee Wah (love the name!), which gets great reviews too. Thomann sells both. I would have probably gone for this first... but it is kind of big, and uncle psychosis had alerted me to the existence of small footprint bass wah pedals. His word normally does not matter much (I mean, he thinks Stingrays don't look good! Pah!), but occasionally he makes good observations.

So, enter the Plutoneium Chi-wah-wah. Another great name.
Small foot print, the right controls... it's even automatically switching on when putting the foot on it.
It's hard to find, 'though. The reviews seemed mixed. Some mention the bypass tone not being as transparent as it could ideally be... and since this is the reason to try something other than the 105Q, it worried me.
Reading through the reviews of this pedal, I came across someone who compared the Chi-wah-wah, the 105Q, and the AMT WH1B.

The AMT is true bypass, so bypass tone is not a concern. It is small too, yay! I was not particularly looking for small wahs, as I did not even think they existed... but the large size of the 105Q is a bit of a problem sometimes in my board (of course, being big is what makes its operation so easy)... so the AMT looked very attractive. no volume control... but there were a few comments about how well the effected level was balanced with the dry signal in a couple of the reviews.

Then I checked its availability. Well, it's on Thomann and... it's actually not expensive!

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/amt_wh_1b_bass_wah_wah.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...ass_wah_wah.htm[/url]

So I went for this one.



I felt it made sense to try the cheapest option that sounded like it would do the job. If I don't like it, it's easy to return things with Thomann, and I'll try something else. Probably one of the G-Labs options.

Thanks to everyone for their input, much appreciated!

Edited October 9, 2013 by mcnach

[Valhalalf]

Ooo nice

Let us know what it's like when you get it

[dannybuoy]

I have the AMT. It's a cool pedal, but the sweep is a little hard to control. It can get really deep and subby on the lo setting though, and the hi setting is more classic wah territory - the mid setting I feel is not so usable. Doesn't beat the Wahoo for sound, but it's size is very convenient on a small board!

Edited October 10, 2013 by dannybuoy

[mcnach]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1381447121' post='2239423']
I have the AMT. It's a cool pedal, but the sweep is a little hard to control. It can get really deep and subby on the lo setting though, and the hi setting is more classic wah territory - the mid setting I feel is not so usable. Doesn't beat the Wahoo for sound, but it's size is very convenient on a small board!
[/quote]

thanks for that!

Thomann said it was shipped yesterday, so probably early next week it'll be with me.
I imagine that being so small it must take a while to get used to its operation, as the sweep will probably need to be more accurately done. But the fact it's nearly the same size as a standard pedal is a big plus for me. Can't wait for it to arrive.

[mcnach]

... and the AMT Bass Wah arrived earlier today!

"Lucky" me, it's the last day I stay at home after knee surgery, so I was at home to receive it. Yeah, knee surgery and wah action is not a great match, especially as it's my right knee (which I'd favour for wah), but my left leg did the job nicely while sitting down.

First impression: where is my pedal??????

Well, not exactly, but the box from Thomann was oversized, with lots of padding... and the tiny little box inside was looking very lonely.
It is TINY. Pretty much like a Boss pedal. Yeah, I knew that... but one thing is knowing it and another holding it in your hands.
It's got a good weight to it, it can be used as a weapon. "Made in Russia". Cool, I'll start a rumour that these are made from recycled Russian tanks

So, I plugged it in, and started playing with it a little, trying it with or without various overdrive pedals, octave... the lot.

The good stuff:
It is a lovely wah sound!
It has three frequency range settings, all three work ok, but I think it's going to stay in the middle one. It goes from very low to a good upper midrange trebly sound...
Volume is not adjustable, but it's well matched to the input signal.
No "tone suck" that I can tell. Since the switch bypasses the pedal entirely, it should be that way.
Because this pedal has a switch, unlike my 105Q, you can leave the pedal in a particular position, which can be pretty cool.

The 'different' stuff:
It's a tiny pedal. Wah operation is a little different from what I'm used to, but it took maybe... oh, I don't know, 3 minutes? to get the hang of it. It's got a very reasonable sweep and I'll just have to retrain my brain to adjust my foot position slightly. Not a biggie.

The bad stuff:
pop!
The switch often, not always, makes a noticeable pop when switching on.
It's not a deal breaker, but it's not pretty.
I'm keeping it... but I'll probably consider modifying it in the future to reduce/eliminate the pop (I believe it's a matter of a adding a cap or something simple like that to the switch... but I could be very wrong )

I like it a lot better than my 105Q, soundwise, and its small footprint helps a lot in my pedalboard.

I'm happy

[mcnach]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1381447121' post='2239423']
I have the AMT. It's a cool pedal, but the sweep is a little hard to control. It can get really deep and subby on the lo setting though, and the hi setting is more classic wah territory - the mid setting I feel is not so usable. Doesn't beat the Wahoo for sound, but it's size is very convenient on a small board!
[/quote]


Ha! I just checked which settings it is you said you liked... and it turns out the setting I prefer is the one you don't find so usable!

To be honest, this is just trying it alone at home. My first gig after knee surgery is next week, on Thursday, with the RATM band, for which I do use wah. So I'll experiment with the band on Tuesday at practice, and then live... and I'll have a better idea about how this wah works after that.

[toneknob]

Thanks for the AMT review - I've been keeping my eye on this thread as I've got a 105Q that's been sitting in its box for a while so last weekend I took it along to my monthly-ish "effects familiarisation" solo rehearsal session (ie where I can make as much noise as possible with my boxes without alarming the neighbours, other band members and local wildlife)

No tone suck from mine, which was a relief. That was with a Jazz Geddy Lee sig and after TC Polytune, Analogman compressor, MXR chorus and OC-2; before Mammoth close overdrive and Mooer Lofi Machine. Next time I'll be taking along my Wahoo for comparison, assuming I've figured out how it works by then.

Good luck with the knee!

[mcnach]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1381841336' post='2244379']
Thanks for the AMT review - I've been keeping my eye on this thread as I've got a 105Q that's been sitting in its box for a while so last weekend I took it along to my monthly-ish "effects familiarisation" solo rehearsal session (ie where I can make as much noise as possible with my boxes without alarming the neighbours, other band members and local wildlife)

No tone suck from mine, which was a relief. That was with a Jazz Geddy Lee sig and after TC Polytune, Analogman compressor, MXR chorus and OC-2; before Mammoth close overdrive and Mooer Lofi Machine. Next time I'll be taking along my Wahoo for comparison, assuming I've figured out how it works by then.

Good luck with the knee!
[/quote]

The 105Q "tone suck" went unnoticed by me for quite a while, so let's be clear about that: the pedal works, and it's nice
But once I noticed the subtle effect... it's like I zoned on it and I could hear it constantly. The difference in my board with or without it is subtle, and many would probaby think it's nothing... but once I heard it the party was spoilt for me

I do like the sound of the AMT better, the range of action just fits the sound I want better than the 105Q, so on that note alone I'm glad I replaced the 105Q.
The small size is a bonus too... but I would not like it any smaller than this!

I have to retrain myself because I am used to the switchless action of the 105Q, which was very very cool. I was earlier practicing one song where I switch on and off the wah a lot (RATM's "Calm like a bomb"), and because I'm "programmed" to expect the wah effect stops when I remove my foot, it was causing a bit of confusion to me (plus I was using the other leg!)... But I'm sure I'll get there.

Thanks for the good wishes... it's recovering pretty fast, so fingers crossed!!!

[toneknob]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1381842642' post='2244404']
The 105Q "tone suck" went unnoticed by me for quite a while, so let's be clear about that: the pedal works, and it's nice
But once I noticed the subtle effect... it's like I zoned on it and I could hear it constantly. The difference in my board with or without it is subtle, and many would probaby think it's nothing... but once I heard it the party was spoilt for me
[/quote]

I'll test again at my next session - this time just bass->105Q->amp and bass->amp. It's times like this I wish I had an A-B box

[mcnach]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1381845958' post='2244470']
I'll test again at my next session - this time just bass->105Q->amp and bass->amp. It's times like this I wish I had an A-B box
[/quote]

I don't know... if you're happy, don't mess with it!!! Don't touch it, don't experiment!!!

At home-friendly volume it was not very noticeable, except when using distortion. The pedals all reacted a little differently when the wah was in the circuit, and sounded "cleaner" and "brighter" without the wah. Just a bit, but noticeable.
At rehearsal volume and mixed with the band the wah alone was enough to be noticeable.

It seems to me the subtle effect must be enhanced by certain set ups, because some people notice it and some don't, so it mush be down to your actual sound as well. I don't know.

Edited October 15, 2013 by mcnach

[toneknob]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1381854549' post='2244593']
I don't know... if you're happy, don't mess with it!!! Don't touch it, don't experiment!!!

At home-friendly volume it was not very noticeable, except when using distortion. The pedals all reacted a little differently when the wah was in the circuit, and sounded "cleaner" and "brighter" without the wah. Just a bit, but noticeable.
At rehearsal volume and mixed with the band the wah alone was enough to be noticeable.
[/quote]

I'm not deliberately trying to find fault with it, just curious to see if mine does anything noticable (is there a difference?)

My experimental set-up wasn't full rehearsal volume (it was just me, so no drummer to compete with volume-wise), but louder (much louder) than at-home bedroom volumes. Anyway, look for an update after Sunday's session

[mcnach]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1381872119' post='2244931']
I'm not deliberately trying to find fault with it, just curious to see if mine does anything noticable (is there a difference?)

My experimental set-up wasn't full rehearsal volume (it was just me, so no drummer to compete with volume-wise), but louder (much louder) than at-home bedroom volumes. Anyway, look for an update after Sunday's session
[/quote]

Yes, please do report back. I'm curious about it now.

[toneknob]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1381872373' post='2244937']
Yes, please do report back. I'm curious about it now.
[/quote]

As far as I can tell, my 105Q gets the all clear, definitely when A/B'd on its own vs bass straight into the amp (GL sig Jazz into a Ashdown Mag 300 Evo II 4x10 combo, at volumes much more than bedroom, probably slightly less than required to play with an average drummer)

What I have noticed though, is that with the pedal in the off position, there is a very very very slight residual wah effect still audible. Again - only the kind of thing that's noticable if you're looking for it.

Incidentally - I got some utterly bonkers sounds out of the pedal when paired with my Mooer Lofi Machine desampler. Check out the intro to Steve Vai's "The Guy With The Ball" for my best-guess approximation

[mcnach]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1382357254' post='2251044']
What I have noticed though, is that with the pedal in the off position, there is a very very very slight residual wah effect still audible. Again - only the kind of thing that's noticable if you're looking for it.
[/quote]

That sounds not too far from my experience then. I was oblivious to it until one day I noticed it. And once I was tuned to it, I could not ignore it. It's subtle, but -to me- noticeable.
How subtle probably depends on a miriad of other factors, from your EQ to other effects...

I'm not familiar with the Mooer Lofi... hmm, I'm curious, I'll check that out. I often used my wah with an overdrive, not very high gain, but the dirtier ("granular", I'd describe it as) the better (OCD clone was great)... if the Lofi is doing what I think it does, I am interested in hearing that noise

[toneknob]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1382357608' post='2251049']
That sounds not too far from my experience then. I was oblivious to it until one day I noticed it. And once I was tuned to it, I could not ignore it. It's subtle, but -to me- noticeable.
How subtle probably depends on a miriad of other factors, from your EQ to other effects...
[/quote]

I should add that I only really noticed when I hooked up the rest of my pedals and then moved the wah's position in the chain.

To start the chain was
bass->polytune->analogman bi-comp->OC-2->MXR M83->Bushy Bison->Lofi->wah->akai headrush

Then I moved the wah:
bass->polytune->analogman bi-comp->wah->OC-2->MXR M83->Bushy Bison->Lofi->akai headrush

EQ was flat on the amp, Bridge pickup rolled off slightly, bridge on full, tone about 85%.

[quote]
I'm not familiar with the Mooer Lofi... hmm, I'm curious, I'll check that out. I often used my wah with an overdrive, not very high gain, but the dirtier ("granular", I'd describe it as) the better (OCD clone was great)... if the Lofi is doing what I think it does, I am interested in hearing that noise
[/quote]

Man, it's bonkers. Bass Player Magazine described the Mark Bass Super Synth like this "Hit a note and hear an angry robot come out of your speaker cab. Change the preset, and hear the din of the factory that built that robot. Change it again and witness the epic battle of the angry robots versus the funky aliens". The Lofi is the distress signal of Angry Robot Super Star Destroyer as it gets sucked into and crushed by a black hole.

[mcnach]

[toneknob]

Speaking of which - my next two pedals to incorporate into the arsenal are a Markbass Super Synth and Sonuus Wahoo. (Both require hook-up to the PC to tinker with properly, which involves a bit more time investment than plug in, tweak controls, go). It's possible the Wahoo might usurp the 105Q - I'll update accordingly as and when.

[mazdah]

The tonesuck made me sell my first Dunlopa 105q. When I bouth my second one I decided to get used to different sound. It still bugs me a little but I never found better sounding wah than this one. Glab is too hifi, Morley is pure terrible. I might want to try Xotic autowah, but I like to operate by myself...

[mcnach]

[quote name='mazdah' timestamp='1383041676' post='2259325']
The tonesuck made me sell my first Dunlopa 105q. When I bouth my second one I decided to get used to different sound. It still bugs me a little but I never found better sounding wah than this one. Glab is too hifi, Morley is pure terrible. I might want to try Xotic autowah, but I like to operate by myself...
[/quote]

The AMT is nice... but the sweep is a bit more difficult to control (because the pedal is so small).
It does make a pop sound when engaging it, which I'm not in love with. Live is not always so noticeable (especially if you sync it with a snare hit )... Pity, because soundwise is great, I think.

[mazdah]

I might try this. poppoing noise does not bother me, I like mechanical noises

[mcnach]

Big THANK YOU to those who mentioned the G-Labs Wowee Wah

The AMT is nice, but ultimately, I was not entirely happy. It has a different sweep from the Dunlop 105Q and whilst it sounds good, in certain songs I was not getting the sound I was used to... Probably not the fault of the AMT, but my expectation... and I found myself drifting towards the 105Q again, which I kept too.

Eventually, I restructured my pedalboard and decided small size was not so important... I started thinking about the G-Labs True Bypass Pad, for my 105Q, and I ended up ordering a WoWee Wah, as on paper it looked perfect (plus the youtube demos were not bad).

The Wowee wah is awesome, in name and action

True Bypass, it switches on when I put my foot on it, and sounds awesome. The AMT and 105Q will now be let go for sure.