funkle Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) My Celinder alder Jazz has a Braz Rosewood board. Feels lush and I think a bit snappier than the rosewood on my Squier CV Jazz and Precision (?Indian on both?? Hard to tell). All the rosewoods though sound nothing like a maple board to me. Maple has a 'dry', 'tight' sound to me that I find difficult to define in other words. Edited October 6, 2013 by funkle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Surely pickups , tone controls, amp settings etc completely overide any minor differences the neck material might feed into the pickup at source ? I'm not saying acoustically they won't be different , but I can't see how it can be so different a almost unnoticeable minor tweak of a dail won't dismiss ? Yes, I've had maple and rosewood basses that differ but I could not confidently say it was the neck as I did not swap bodies / necks around, so it could have been pups or set up or body tone etc Edited October 7, 2013 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1381125766' post='2234537'] ....Surely.... [/quote] Why not believe someone who has made world class basses for over 30 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1381125766' post='2234537'] Surely pickups, tone controls, amp settings etc override any minor differences the neck material might feed into the pickup at source? [/quote] Yes. neck material could well make an audible difference, but it's minimal, imho. I prefer to believe the evidence of my own eyes and ears. How many players on this forum make the choice between rosewood and maple fingerboards based on a perceived sound difference? I'm willing to bet it's down to aesthetics in the majority of cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr M Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381139319' post='2234709'] Why not believe someone who has made world class basses for over 30 years? [/quote] Because he's been making world-class instruments for over 30 years, and is therefore likely to know all the sales tricks? He's hardly likely to say "I think this instrument should have an ebony 'board 'cause it would look nice and I just got a really good deal on a stack of blanks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkle Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1381148271' post='2234911'] Because he's been making world-class instruments for over 30 years, and is therefore likely to know all the sales tricks? He's hardly likely to say "I think this instrument should have an ebony 'board 'cause it would look nice and I just got a really good deal on a stack of blanks." [/quote] Skepticism is healthy, I think - though it can cross over to cynicism? I would simply say that I have heard from other luthiers whom I respect and who know a great deal more than I do that neck woods do make a difference. They generally go on to say everything makes a difference, though of course relative contributions of the various bits vary. I am now at a stage where I think most of the tone of an instrument resides in the neck as opposed to the body. A slightly unusual point of view, perhaps. Took me a while to come to this conclusion, and it's based partly on observations of others and partly on my own (e.g. By swapping necks about, trying necks with graphite rods, trying fully graphite necks on basses I own, necks with steel rods, necks of different dimensions, necks with different boards, etc, plus a lot of modding of pickups and preamps and bridges and tuners and whatnot). I'm not aware of any well run double blind studies in this area. They would probably help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Rosewood is darker. Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I regularly use both types. Maybe in my lounge at home I can hear a difference but not sure really, as it could be down to strings, pups, body wood etc. In a band situation I certainly can't distinguish any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 TBH I really don't care what the fingerboard of any of my basses is made of so long as it looks good in relation to the whole bass and it is appropriately hard wearing. There are so many variables that go to make up the sound of a bass that to focus in on a single factor is IMO counter-productive and naive. If a bass doesn't sound the way you want it to simply try another one until you find one that does then buy it. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr M Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='funkle' timestamp='1381149952' post='2234946'] Skepticism is healthy, I think - though it can cross over to cynicism? [/quote] Guilty as charged. Nevertheless (without wishing any disrespect to a great number of experienced luthiers) while they might be able to hear some characteristic of the woods in an instrument while played un-amplified, I think even they should appreciate that by the time the signal has gone through (eg.) on-board pre-amp, compressor, pre-amp, power-amp, speaker / cab, etc. the actual influence of the wood on the final sound heard by the audience is going to be minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1381148271' post='2234911'] ....Because he's been making world-class instruments for over 30 years, and is therefore likely to know all the sales tricks?.... He's hardly likely to say "I think this instrument should have an ebony 'board 'cause it would look nice and I just got a really good deal on a stack of blanks.".... [/quote] Lakland say just that. Their figured tops are for show and don't affect the sound. Other manufacturers say different. They are all building basses to different criteria and I don't see any point in challenging their opinions and reasons for their choices without some facts to back me up. Just putting their opinions down to "sales tricks" is a view backed up by little knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1381150982' post='2234963'] ....by the time the signal has gone through (eg.) on-board pre-amp, compressor, pre-amp, power-amp, speaker / cab, etc. the actual influence of the wood on the final sound heard by the audience is going to be minimal.... [/quote] The raw sound of the bass is pretty important on a recording session or when the player is DIing into a PA system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381139319' post='2234709'] Why not believe someone who has made world class basses for over 30 years? [/quote] I did not say I did not believe there was a difference, every natural material differs on some scale of course, but my point is that the differences are not so prominent, that you wont be able to overcome them with a minute turn of a dial Thats my experience of owning both necks on various instruments. The range of sounds basses can produce is vast, has anyone ever really chosen an instrument fingerboard because of the tonal value of the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1381156270' post='2235071'] The range of sounds basses can produce is vast [/quote] But still all sound the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr M Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381153811' post='2235016'] Lakland say just that. Their figured tops are for show and don't affect the sound. [snip...] [/quote] That raises an interesting question - Lakland use figured maple tops, as do many other manufacturers. Why would it [i]not[/i] affect the sound of their basses when it [i]does[/i] affect the sound of other designs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381153811' post='2235016'] Lakland say just that. Their figured tops are for show and don't affect the sound. Other manufacturers say different. They are all building basses to different criteria and I don't see any point in challenging their opinions and reasons for their choices without some facts to back me up. Just putting their opinions down to "sales tricks" is a view backed up by little knowledge. [/quote] Roger Sadowsky also says his figured tops don't affect the sound of the bass , and I believe him . I think fingerboard wood will affect the final sound more on some designs of bass than on others . Despite their close association with using various tonewoods , I would venture that Wal basses, for example, are relatively impervious in many cases to what combination of woods they use in terms of final sound because the dominant characteristic of those basses is the pickups and electronics . Bay contrast , a Fender -style bass is probably a bit more susceptible to sounding noticably different if you start changing things like the body wood and fingerboard material . Edited October 7, 2013 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) I spoke to Pete Stephens several times about Wal basses and he had very firm ideas about wood combinations and their sound. He would recommend certain combinations, particularly for fretless, but as most of his basses were custom made he'd always give the final word to the customer. I had a Wal with olive ash caps and it was brighter and snappier than the warm sounding Wal I bought later with American walnut caps, which is how Pete said they would sound. The problem with this thread, and the others of a similar ilk, is that by insisting that x or y is the case and z can never happen, people's experience are being dismissed. If people are going to be dogmatic then it would be better if they posted from the benefit of their experience and not how they imagine things to be. Edited October 7, 2013 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381163138' post='2235204'] I spoke to Pete Stephens several times about Wal basses and he had very firm ideas about wood combinations and their sound. He would recommend certain combinations, particularly for fretless, but as most of his basses were custom made he'd always give the final word to the customer. I had a Wal with olive ash caps and it was brighter and snappier than the warm sounding Wal I bought later with American walnut caps, which is how Pete said they would sound. The problem with this thread, and the others of a similar ilk, is that by insisting that x or y is the case and z can never happen, people's experience are being dismissed. If people are going to be dogmatic then it would be better if they posted from the benefit of their experience and not how they imagine things to be. [/quote] I too spoke to Pete at lenght about wood combinations , and he told me how different combinations would affect the tone , but all within the proviso that the final result would still sound like a Wal . As I'm sure you would agree , he knew exactly what he was talking about in all matters , and there is no doubt that the wood makes a difference within certain parameters , but in essence the Wal sound is more derived from the electronics . My American walnut bass sounded warmer than my wenge-topped one , but stick a set of generic aftermarket pickups in a Wal and it will sound like a lot of other basses , but with the original pickups in it , it sounds unique . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 As Pete said and we both agree, no matter what other differences there are, wood also makes a difference, which is the answer to the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Most luthiers will have their chosen combinations and when I asked for a different one, based on aesthetics, he said that we wouldn't know how that would work until it was built... The goal of the luthier was to buld me what I wanted within what he would do... and then consider the variables. But it is pointless going down blind alleys too much as the result would be more of a lottery..this is why you need to talk to, buy into and trust the guy who is building the instrument. I watered down my 'vision' to a more known entity with the woods involved..ie, maple ( flame/birdseye) bubinga stringers and bubinga facings. If you get too exotic, it is hard to even determine what the wood might be anyway.... You have to believe the guy building the bass knows about wood combos otherwise why are asking him to build one anyway. I would expect Name builders who have been around a bit have long since done all their research and have a wealth of experience in this regard. Sadowsky, Smith, Warwick etc etc ...have all determined their staple combinations and probably wouldn't be interested if you wanted then to indulge you... and largely that is a good thing. I would like little things like a block and bound neck... which isn't that big a deal, but would expect them to say that they use these wood combinations and these only as they know they work and have built their repuations on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1381164263' post='2235229'] As Pete said and we both agree, no matter what other differences there are, wood also makes a difference, which is the answer to the original post. [/quote] Yes, absolutely agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm fairly convinced I can hear a difference in fretboard wood but I'm probably wrong. I'm also a proponent of thinking that if a bass sounds, plays and looks good then it doesn't make a huge amount of difference what an instrument is made from. Luthiers and companies have to justify to an extent the prices for their instruments if they're custom order and it's possible that they might overstate the importance of tonewoods IMO. I used to have a preference towards maple aesthetically but nowadays I like rosewood as much on certain things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1381157102' post='2235100'] But still all sound the same! [/quote] Except for maple boards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think I'll take up the harmonica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381166810' post='2235297'] I think I'll take up the harmonica. [/quote] Plastic or wooden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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