Bass Gods of the Future?

[xilddx]

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1381078817' post='2234100']
The trouble is it takes a while before a bass player is cemented into anyones psyche and held up as a 'god'.
All the players in the OP are 70's or 80's, more recent additions would be Flea, Chris Wolstenholme, Matt Freeman, Fat Mike, all from 90's bands (yes they were around before but I wouldn't say mainstream then) but it's taken a while before the general public saw them as bass gods. [b]So maybe todays most elite players will take another 10/20 years before they're considered gods.[/b]
Maybe sadly music doesn't matter as much nowadays, it used be a defining trait of who you were growing up, if you were into one thing then that's pretty much who you were, you didn't get involved with other genres, it was an all encompassing scene, almost territorial . Now teenagers are into all sorts of music, the different genres are merged, this may be a good thing but I think it means people aren't as passionate about music so can be happy with bland dross were the bass isn't even noticed. And if you can make your fortune by playing bland bass in a band that's popular because marketing says it will be, then who can blame the players.
I feel it's watered down because a band with a different style or sound come along and 'make it', then every other record label finds or creates a band that sounds the same so the originals don't stand out anymore, maybe it's always been that way but it never felt like it. I grew up in the 80's so I'll use some bands from then as examples, Madness were a band with an unmistakable sound of their own but other record companies didn't try to recreate them, Duran Duran, The Cure, were others, yes some sounded similar but not to the extent it is today. A band are popular and suddenly within six months there are a dozen others that sound the same.
Obviously this doesn't mean there aren't youngsters who are passionate about music, my two are and I'm very proud of them for it, but it seems an awful lot of people are happy to buy music that doesn't stand out or move them.
I'm a miserable sod !!
[/quote]

That's why I said 'in 30 year's time'

[Maude]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381079886' post='2234125']
Then start it yourself.
[/quote]


Game changing scenes are a young mans game .

[discreet]

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1381080547' post='2234139']
Game changing scenes are a young mans game .
[/quote]

Rubbish! Seasick Steve is doing OK.

[Maude]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381079898' post='2234126']
That's why I said 'in 30 year's time'
[/quote]

Fair play, by the time I'd read through all the posts I'd forgotten that bit.

In that case, I'm not sure, I'll ask my kids.
I know that I don't buy enough new music anymore to know. I suppose that so much music being made electronically these days must mean that we've already slashed at least 50% of the new musicians off the list of possibilities.

[Maude]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381080662' post='2234143']
Rubbish! Seasick Steve is doing OK.
[/quote]

He certainly is but is it new? But that's a whole different debate.

[BigRedX]

Does it matter?

Not trying to be negative, but for me the bassists (and other musicians) I like are the one's who make an important contribution to the overall sound of the music. For me its great ensemble playing that I like. Most often the individual musicians themselves aren't necessarily that good on their own, but together with others who enhance the overall music they create something that is greater than the sum of their parts. That for me is where the magic is in music.

Internet generation bedroom play-alongs do nothing for me no matter how technically proficient they appear to be. (remember it can all be faked).

[visog]

To have a God, you have to have worshippers...

And you'll have seen the stats that Urban/Dance now is by far the majority of music sales with guitar-based rock a minority.

Coupled with this is the up-coming nuclear winter of America discovering dance music and the DJ scene in a big 'Ibiza' type-way - like our economy, the bass (&guitar) industry is driven from America and this (player as opposed to DJ-based music) will erode rapidly...

Expect niche bass builders to go out of business and the big names to trade more on relic/artist models to an aging market.

Bass Player will wind up too. (Will anyone notice?)

Bass will continue to get less mainstream, i.e. in the top-40, and will only really exist at shrinking trade fairs, bass meets and on the 'net.

The gig scene will move more towards hotels and holiday camps offering 'Heavy Rock' getaways and retro weekends.

And the new gods - where they do pop up, will go straight to YouTube with no income stream.

Let's meet at a hotel in Lytham St Anne's with our boutique basses to have one more round of 'Hot Water' in 2017. Look North may cover it.

Edited October 6, 2013 by visog

[Lowender]

I don't understand when people say "the average person doesn't know bass sounds or bassists" What's the difference what the average person knows? The average person doesn't know who Jonas Salk or Herman Mellville is...how should that effect the way I think?

Ask the average person on the street who Sting or Paul McCartney are. I think they'd know.

[discreet]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381099107' post='2234448']
Ask the average person on the street who Sting or Paul McCartney are. I think they'd know.
[/quote]

Yes - but they don't [i]necessarily[/i] know that they're bass players.

[discreet]

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1381081049' post='2234151']
He certainly is but is it new? But that's a whole different debate.
[/quote]

Probably not, but he appeared at the right time when blues and retro sounds in general were seeing a resurgence.
He's not in the same category as [i]Wand Erection[/i] certainly - but then they're not 'new' either.

[Lowender]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381099434' post='2234451']
Yes - but they don't [i]necessarily[/i] know that they're bass players.
[/quote]

So what?

[Annoying Twit]

For new bass gods, or any sort of instrumental, 'gods' to emerge, there needs to be a new revolution in music. In the 50s/60s/70s, electric music had been discovered, and was being developed. So, in the 60s, you had McCartney playing basslines, the kind of which had never been heard by the general public. Then, you had prog rock developing, which bought a new level of technical prowess to music. But, electric music has been around for a long while, and much of what can be done has been done. And hence it's difficult to come up with something which is both fresh and new, and is also going to find a wide new audience.

One thing that has changed is that computer games have taken a lot of focus from the younger generation that previously would have been on music. And this is unlikely to change. Not only would those young people be the musicians of the future (in which case there will be fewer), but also they in times past would have been the most keen consumers of new and challenging music. And there seems to be less drive out there to find new types of music the likes of which have never been heard before. If we're looking at music that's similar to what we've seen in the 60s or 70s at most, then we're going to get bass lines that might have been revolutionary back then, but certainly aren't now.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHmsblNnnGM[/media]

When I was a teenager we had the older generation claiming that what we listened to wasn't music. The last time this happened was decades ago was the rap revolution which really picked up steam in the 80s. But, that's 30 years ago now. What has happened since that makes the older generation (of which I'm now one) deny that some new musical form is even music. If we're not getting that, then we're not getting enough change in music to enable new 'gods' as there isn't a sufficient new musical area for them to mine.

Having said that, if there's going to be a new bass 'god' (which I personally doubt), then IMHO that will come from the hip-hop genre. The music in hip-hop is slowly becoming less and less important, and in my opinion boring. I think that creates an opportunity for someone to come along and add the musicality back in, and therefore create a significant advance. In the same way that The Beatles revolutionised popular music, partially through adding back some of the musical complexity that had been present in pre-rock popular music.

With the development of computer games that allow a real guitar or as to be used as a controller, then perhaps in the future we'll get people who will emerge as some sort of 'god' in that genre. At present those games are focussed on playing traditional music as it is on the record. But perhaps future games will be more open-ended, and give scores for inventiveness within certain guidelines. Maybe those games will be sophisticated enough that people will have to invent new styles of playing in order to get those high scores. Perhaps that would mean that (to us old farts) unmusical w***ery would be what leads a player to become a high-scoring virtuoso, and finally we'd have something 'new' enough to make the older generation say 'that's not even music', while a younger generation is astonished by their youtube videos of them smashing forward towards new high scores.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x07yCQO2uo

Or perhaps the focus of 'newness' won't even be music. Perhaps we'll see an era where the 'gods' aren't bassists or even musicians, but something else. In the way that game designer Jenova Chen is seen as a 'god'.

Apologies for being a complete and utter pretentious prat.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381004195' post='2233368']
Who are we going to be celebrating in thirty year's time from the current and recent crop of new bassists as bass heroes and innovators?

Who will be elevated to the status of people like Jaco, Entwistle, Geddy, Mark King, Stanley Clark, Chris Squire, Robbie Shakespeare? People who aren't bassists actually talking about them with glowing eyes and hearts.
[/quote]

I don't consider geddy to be an innovator as such, just someone with a unique melodic/rhythmic sense (and it didnt hurt that he end up playing with a once-in-a-generation talent like Neil). There could very well be another "geddy" out there.

Would love to see what Tal could do which proper music rather than jazz :-) ...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEGQ4VO4Uo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEGQ4VO4Uo[/url]

[Marc S]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381080662' post='2234143']
Rubbish! Seasick Steve is doing OK.
[/quote]

Absolutely!

Let's stay positive folks.....
There seems to be a bit of a negative vibe on this thread,
maybe it IS difficult to know who will be held in high esteem in 30 years time,

but back to those mentioned in the OP
I wonder when those bassists were first playing,
how many people back then were thinking
"This guy is going to be seen as an innovator in 30 years time" ?

Music is still evolving
I keep discovering new bands all the time
and while at the moment, I can't point a finger at a new rising star of the bass,
I'm sure the consensus was the same before Flea arrived on the scene

Maybe it doesn't matter that no-one is, as yet seen as a future Geddy Lee,
but does this matter, as long as many are still trying to be better bass players?

A few years back, I saw Imagined village, a sort of folk-superstars band
They featured a Cellist by the name of Barney Morse-Brown
who did some amazing work on the Cello, with his sampling gear
and played the Cello like I'd never heard before....

Could be done on bass too!
As long as there's a need for live bands, there'll be a need for bass players
We just gotta keep trying our best, and looking for new approaches

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1381120212' post='2234515']
Having said that, if there's going to be a new bass 'god' (which I personally doubt), then IMHO that will come from the hip-hop genre. The music in hip-hop is slowly becoming less and less important, and in my opinion boring. I think that creates an opportunity for someone to come along and add the musicality back in, and therefore create a significant advance. In the same way that The Beatles revolutionised popular music, partially through adding back some of the musical complexity that had been present in pre-rock popular music.
[/quote]

You might be onto something here - I'll be honest, I know bugger all about hip-hop, but a few years ago, in my short and highly unsuccessful stint as a session player, I played on a recording session for a hip-hop album. Sadly, I don't know whether the finished product ever surfaced, but it was very interesting to listen to the conversation between the guy whose album it was, and the recording engineer. This guy had the idea that a large proportion of hip-hop and its various subgenres were becoming "lazy," because it was too easy for an aspiring young rapper to pull a sample out of an old soul record, loop it, and then put their words over the top. Hence he was getting in some session players to play live bass, drum, keyboard parts, etc. in the hope of making something a bit more "authentic."

So perhaps there is a growing desire among some artists to put some quality musicianship into the genre...but as I say, I know bugger all about hip-hop!

[discreet]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1381138182' post='2234684']
I know bugger all about hip-hop!
[/quote]

I know that it's mostly style over substance. *Quickly drives to Heathrow and leaves the country*

Seriously though, it had a lot of promise in the late 70s which (in my opinion) has failed to materialise. The fact that it has now become mainstream and features regularly in the UK and US charts is neither here nor there, AFAIC.