Why Do People Think Set-Ups Are Magic?

[Lowender]

What's the mystery? If you can use a screwdriver you can do a set up. Yet there's this notion that there are special people who do "good" set ups.

Reality check...

A "good" set up is like a "good" oil change. It's either done right or it isn't. There aren't variables. Bridge height is a matter of taste but other than that, the intonation is in tune or it isn't. The neck is either in a good position or it's too flat or too bowed.

That takes a bit of an eye and I understand that some people have it and some people don't. Some people can't hand a picture straight. But that doesn't make picture hanging a special skill.

I believe everyone should learn to do their set ups. You won't hurt the instrument unless you do something ridiculously foolish. Everyone should also be aware what is needed -- either neck relief or string height. Sets ups do not fix humps or dips or warped necks. They don't make an Affinity Squier sound like Fender MIA. It's really just a step up from knowing how to tune a guitar.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Lowender

[discreet]

Some people just won't attempt it, so they need to justify the cost of paying someone else to do it. Hey presto.

Edited October 8, 2013 by discreet

[ambient]

There's set ups and set ups. I don't see the point in taking an instrument just to have the truss rod tweaked, and the action adjusted. But sometimes you need more than that. Frets occasionally have to be dressed, that's definitely not something I'd attempt myself.

[nottswarwick]

Good thread.

I have recently invested in a small tool kit, Cruz Tools.

I have know about action, intonation and truss rod stuff for ever. However, I have never really investigated doing it properly to spec and measurement. I can now set neck relief exactly, and do bridge and pickup height to measurements, and intonation.

I don't know how to cut a nut, or how to do a fret dress though.

[skej21]

If people are scared, they should check out the new 'Fender University' site. Includes videos and guides for all types of guitar/bass care including set-ups, string changing etc and also some free lessons from Berklee!

http://www.fender.com/en-GB/community/university/

[DogHammer]

I agree.

I always used to be a bit fearful, but in the last few years I have dove right in and had much success in setups, resulting in lower action and more playability of most of my instruments.

But there are some that just cannot be saved...

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1381237207' post='2236176']
There's set ups and set ups. I don't see the point in taking an instrument just to have the truss rod tweaked, and the action adjusted. But sometimes you need more than that. Frets occasionally have to be dressed, that's definitely not something I'd attempt myself.
[/quote]

^ This is the crux of it, I'd say - certain jobs require specific tools, and a certain level of confidence. I took my acoustic guitar in for a setup and the guy did a lovely job. He made up a new nut and saddle from bone blanks, which I wouldn't have been comfortable doing myself. But then he looked at one of my basses and explained that lowering the action was a fairly easy job if you had a set of nut slotting files. I invested in a set, and they weren't cheap, but I've used them on three different basses now, which, if I'd paid for him to set them up, would have cost more than the files (and this guy is very reasonable)!

I think most people are inhibited by a fear of fubaring their instrument through not knowing the best methods, which, to be fair, is probably a sensible reason!

[neepheid]

I just taught myself to set up basses (and by extension, guitars). I perceived it as being less hassle than finding someone to do it for me.

[kevin_lindsay]

I do most of my own setup work on my basses. However, my own preference is totally different from what someone else may prefer.

It's finding out what feels best for you. I set my instruments up so that the notes ring ttrue under normal playing, with a little fret buzz if I push harder.

I find someone like Paul Turner's preference to be a nightmare - he sets his basses up for high action with a lot of neck relief. If I play his basses up the dusty end, my fingers often slip off the strings and end up wedged under the adjacent one.

Saying that, his tone and playing is fantastic, so wwjat do o know? Hahaha

[andydye]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1381237381' post='2236180']
Good thread.

[b]I have recently invested in a small tool kit, Cruz Tools.[/b]

I have know about action, intonation and truss rod stuff for ever. However, I have never really investigated doing it properly to spec and measurement. I can now set neck relief exactly, and do bridge and pickup height to measurements, and intonation.

I don't know how to cut a nut, or how to do a fret dress though.
[/quote]

Sounds like a potential good investment! link please?

[6v6]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381236488' post='2236158']
there's this notion that there are special people who do "good" set ups.
...
That takes a bit of an eye and I understand that some people have it and some people don't
[/quote]

Answered your own question IMO!

[superclive]

I overheard someone quote £60 for a set up in a music shop a week or so ago. £60!!!!! I had a look at it releif was good action was a little high but not unplayable.It was a brand spanker squier strat. I advised him to look it up on line or I'd do it for £20.

[paul h]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381236488' post='2236158']
What's the mystery? If you can use a screwdriver you can do a set up. Yet there's this notion that there are special people who do "good" set ups.

Reality check...

A "good" set up is like a "good" oil change. It's either done right or it isn't. There aren't variables. Bridge height is a matter of taste but other than that, the intonation is in tune or it isn't. The neck is either in a good position or it's too flat or too bowed.

[b]That takes a bit of an eye and I understand that some people have it and some people don't. Some people can't hand a picture straight[/b]. But that doesn't make picture hanging a special skill.

I believe everyone should learn to do their set ups. You won't hurt the instrument unless you do something ridiculously foolish. Everyone should also be aware what is needed -- either neck relief or string height. Sets ups do not fix humps or dips or warped necks. They don't make an Affinity Squier sound like Fender MIA. It's really just a step up from knowing how to tune a guitar.
[/quote]

I think you've answered your own question. Not everybody has the skills required so why not pay someone to do it for them? Sounds completely reasonable to me. I don't see how its any different to using a mechanic or a plumber.

For the sake of transparency...I do all my own set ups

[Happy Jack]

Sorry guys but this all seems way too simplistic to me.

As a lifelong biker I have decent tools and a reasonable idea of how to use them. IME that doesn't apply to most people.

I don't mean that to sound like "I'm clever", more that most people manage to get through their entire lives without ever needing to know that there are several different types of crosshead screwdriver, let alone that you don't use mole grips to grip moles.

Doing a decent set-up on the vast majority of Fenders involves [i][b]EITHER [/b][/i]taking the neck off and putting it back on again, complete with re-tensioning the strings and re-tuning, for each tweak of the trussrod [i][b]OR [/b][/i]cutting an access point through body & pickguard at the neck-joint. This is hardly trivial.

Read any decent on-line set-up guide and within seconds you are being advised how to make your own neck-profile template using a piece of card, some sticky-backed plastic, and an old washing-up bottle. Most people will look at this stuff and think "[i]sod this for a game of soldiers[/i]".

Set-ups are fun & easy for the fettlers amongst us. I do them because I have too many basses not to know how to set them up. But I'd much rather be playing them than fiddling about with my toolkit.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Happy Jack

[Zenitram]

At a guess:

http://www.cruztools.com/products/mitools.html

[andydye]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1381239244' post='2236226']
At a guess:

[url="http://www.cruztools.com/products/mitools.html"]http://www.cruztools...ts/mitools.html[/url]
[/quote]

oo, nice! £48 on amazon compared to the price of a set-up from any shop doesn't seem so bad

[Mr. Foxen]

The difference is between a setup and a good setup. A setup will be better than no setup, like from the box, but someone that is really good at it, does it and you find out what you've been missing. I've invested a fair few afternoons learning from a very good tech, and there is lots to it in the fine details, but since everyone thinks they can set guitars up, it often goes unappreciated.

[dannybuoy]

I know how to change strings, set up the string height, intonation and neck relief, but that's about it. And that's far more than most guitarists I know who don't know how to do any of the above!

I do have a bass that I want to get taken in for a full setup though as it's my favorite one and I want to get the best out off it. I'm talking nut slots, fret dressing / PLEK, smoothing the fret ends and rolling the fingerboard edges. I'm not confident in doing any of those things and I suspect 95% of players are the same!

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1381239244' post='2236226']
At a guess:

http://www.cruztools.com/products/mitools.html
[/quote]

I have the guitar player tech kit, plus a couple of other things. Great quality tools.

[andydye]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1381240543' post='2236248']
I have the guitar player tech kit, plus a couple of other things. Great quality tools.
[/quote]

superb! Those long screwdrivers for vintage truss rods look like a great idea too!

[molan]

I always thought doing my own basic setup was fine. I'm comfortable with bridge height, truss rods, intonation etc. etc.

However I've recently been working with one of those guys who does this for a living and charges for his services.

He can really, really make a big difference and is much better than anything I can do by a margin that I think it's acceptable to pay for. I'd happily recommend him to anyone who really wants their bass to feel that bit better to play.

One thing I would say is that the margins between what I can do and what he's able to do are greatest the lower the required action is. For light touch players who want a super low action right across the board his expertise makes a real difference.

He took in a 7 string he other day that played well but the owner wanted it to go lower and be more even playing everywhere. He removed the neck, shimmed it slightly, filed the nut, sorted out some badly fitted frets, adjusted both truss rods, adjusted spacing, re-set the bridge, set intonation and matched pickup heights.

It played superbly when he was finished and the owner was grinning from ear to ear when he picked it up. He couldn't believe the transformation. Cost was £60 and, in my opinion, worth every penny

[Grangur]

Isn't doing a set-up a bit like wiring a plug?

Those of us who grew up taking stuff apart, and fixing things don't have a problem with taking on a new little fixing job. Actually we enjoy it.

Those who never had such a time growing up don't have a clue where to start and daren't tackle it.

Some even say they "can't" even wire a plug.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1381241799' post='2236269']
Isn't doing a set-up a bit like wiring a plug?

Those of us who grew up taking stuff apart, and fixing things don't have a problem with taking on a new little fixing job. Actually we enjoy it.

Those who never had such a time growing up don't have a clue where to start and daren't tackle it.

Some even say they "can't" even wire a plug.
[/quote]

Not really, a plug is right or wrong. Setup has massive degrees of adjustment possible. Including adjusting things that people on the internet like to declare makes no difference.

[Geek99]

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1381238755' post='2236208']


Sounds like a potential good investment! link please?
[/quote]
On amazon under that name - Santa is getting me one apparently

[Grangur]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1381242790' post='2236283']


Not really, a plug is right or wrong. Setup has massive degrees of adjustment possible. Including adjusting things that people on the internet like to declare makes no difference.
[/quote] You missed my point.
For some folk to tighten a screw requires a tradesman. Doing it themselves is simply off their radar.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Grangur