Why Do People Think Set-Ups Are Magic?

[shizznit]

The only thing I will leave alone is a refret. Leave that to experienced pros!

[Lowender]

[quote name='6feet7' timestamp='1381251128' post='2236490']
My bass cost over £5K. I'm leaving it with the guy who made it - who happens to live only 10 minutes away. I'd never leave it in a shop. If I had something cheap and nasty I'd have no worries screwing around but not when it cost more than my car.

I don't actually like the way those of us who chose not to do something, even if we can do it, are looked down on. It's a personal choice. Leave it at that.
[/quote]

I'm not looking down on anybody -- just trying to show that there's no need to spend money on something you shouldn't be afraid of doing yourself.

[nottswarwick]

For me, basic stuff I can do very competently as I said before. I know what a well set up bass and guitar feels like, as I have paid for plenty of excellent ones on the past.

More complex stuff I will leave to the pros.

And I wouldn't touch my Taylor acoustic, simply because we have a Taylor centre of excellence 2 miles away

[martin8708]

If we all did our own set-ups and minor repairs, would we put MDPhillips out of a job ?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381236488' post='2236158']
A "good" set up is like a "good" oil change. It's either done right or it isn't. There aren't variables.
[/quote]

Fair point, but how many people do their own oil changes?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1381256697' post='2236613']


Fair point, but how many people do their own oil changes?
[/quote]
Me

[Truckstop]

Sometimes it's nice to let a professional look after things for you.

I clean my own car, but sometimes for a treat I'll blow £40 and get it completely cleaned out by some polish dudes in the next village. Engine bay, boot...everything!

Same for set-ups. I know how to change strings and set string height and intonation, but a pro knows all the little things that makes a bass a wonderful thing to play and sometimes it's nice to give the instrument you love a treat.

Truckstop

[Lowender]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1381273873' post='2236953']
Sometimes it's nice to let a professional look after things for you.

I clean my own car, but sometimes for a treat I'll blow £40 and get it completely cleaned out by some polish dudes in the next village. Engine bay, boot...everything!

Same for set-ups. I know how to change strings and set string height and intonation, but a pro knows all the little things that makes a bass a wonderful thing to play and sometimes it's nice to give the instrument you love a treat.

Truckstop
[/quote]

The former example is labor, a set up is not. The later is example is what I challenge. A "pro" isn't going to do it any better than any other proper set up. You don't need a professional carpenter to put a nail in the wall. : )

[bobbass4k]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381249770' post='2236461']
I don't understand the "i can't be bothered" or "they do it faster" argument. Yeah, it may be faster for the guy doing it but who cares? For you, how is taking it into a shop, leaving it and going back to pick it up easier than getting an allen wrench and turning it a quarter of an inch.

You only need to do intonation once. Maybe a re-do if you make massive changes. Doing the neck takes about 12 seconds and doing the bridge about two and a half minutes How much of a hurry are you in?
[/quote]

A good set up does not take 2 minutes and 42 seconds, even a half-arsed set up involves more than turning an allen wrench. You're doing a simple set up to a (low) standard that you're happy with on your basses. That's fine, but not everyone is the same. As other people have said, a set up can include pretty skilled and delicate jobs like fret dressing, cavity shielding, nut cutting, some people simply aren't happy with doing stuff like that, and nor should they be. I used to live with a guitarist who once tried putting up a shelf by drilling a small phillips head screw into the wall with a hammer drill, 4" away from a light switch. Smart guy, excellent guitarist, but I would never trust him with any task involving tools. Some people just aren't practical. And yes, using an allen key counts as practical.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381276226' post='2236970']
The former example is labor, a set up is not. The later is example is what I challenge. A "pro" isn't going to do it any better than any other proper set up. You don't need a professional carpenter to put a nail in the wall. : )
[/quote]

Some people drive nails through water pipes or electrical cables. Some people miss the stud they thought they had located (or more likely didn't bother locating in the first place) and make a mess of their plasterboard. These people need a professional joiner to put a nail in their walls, yes. Not everyone's handy like you.

[discreet]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381276226' post='2236970']
...You don't need a professional carpenter to put a nail in the wall.
[/quote]

Just a professional Roman to put nails in a carpenter. Har! Har!

[KingBollock]

I think doing a good set up requires a delicate balance, an understanding of how each adjustment affects the others. It is something that comes with experience and each set up can take quite a while to get just right when first learning. How often is someone with say only one Bass going to need to set it up? To gain the experience to get it right and to know that it is right? And then there are things like fret levelling that even people experienced at doing set ups won't touch, how does someone just learning know if the reason they can't quite get the set up right is because there is a problem with the frets? Sometimes it is worth paying just for the reassurance.

I do my own set ups, I can't afford to pay anyone else. I do my own nuts and neck shims, too. But I don't do frets. And even though I have been doing set ups for a long time (I learned while working in a guitar shop twenty odd years ago) I still get anxious when I have to adjust a truss rod, because if I can't afford to pay someone else to do it, I sure can't afford to repair it if I cock it up, as unlikely as that really is.

[Lowender]

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1381276354' post='2236971']
A good set up does not take 2 minutes and 42 seconds, even a half-arsed set up involves more than turning an allen wrench. You're doing a simple set up to a (low) standard that you're happy with on your basses. That's fine, but not everyone is the same. As other people have said, a set up can include pretty skilled and delicate jobs like fret dressing, cavity shielding, nut cutting, some people simply aren't happy with doing stuff like that, and nor should they be. I used to live with a guitarist who once tried putting up a shelf by drilling a small phillips head screw into the wall with a hammer drill, 4" away from a light switch. Smart guy, excellent guitarist, but I would never trust him with any task involving tools. Some people just aren't practical. And yes, using an allen key counts as practical.
[/quote]

How do you know it's a low standard? Because I don't have "Professional Setter-upper" as a title? lol. Trust me, my basses are set up perfectly. it's not that hard.

I don't do electronics because I never learned how. One can't "eye" electronics. But millions of people can do it so I'm sure if I learned it wouldn't be that difficult.

Nut cutting and fret dressing is not a "set up."

Edited October 9, 2013 by Lowender

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1381276656' post='2236973']
Some people miss the stud they thought they had located (or more likely didn't bother locating in the first place) Not everyone's handy like you.
[/quote]

Some people do not know what a stud wall is, and have no idea that they even need to try to locate a stud.

A setup, even one just requiring neck and bridge tweaking, is only simple if you understand how the neck, vibrating strings and bridge all work together. You (OP) understand that, great. Others may not get it, and they shouldn't be made to feel stupid because they don't get it.

There's fretbuzz. Where on the fretboard is the buzz coming from? Is it due to the neck being too straight, or too bowed? Or the neck might be fine and it's just the bridge that needs altering. These things take practice. I don't think it's as easy as you make out.
I'd agree that intonation adjustment is a much simpler and more clear cut concept.
However, if they don't get it, that's fine. They may have strengths in other areas; things which come naturally to them, but you would struggle to get to grips with.

[Grangur]

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1381276354' post='2236971']
A good set up does not take 2 minutes and 42 seconds, even a half-arsed set up involves more than turning an allen wrench. You're doing a simple set up to a (low) standard that you're happy with on your basses. ...
[/quote]

You can only speak for yourself of course.

The worst set-up I've ever had took the shop 2 attempts at 2 weeks at a time and it was still unplayable.

Martin at the Bass Gallery did a good set up on my Warwick when I bought it there and that was good. But no better (IMHO) than my own set-ups.

For myself I'd say I seldom sit down and do a "full set-up", unless I've just got my hands on a new bass. What actually happens is I may find a get a small amount of fret buzz or I notice the intonation is slightly out on the bass I'm playing, so I get the allen key and make the small adjustment then and there. So it's more a case of ongoing maintenance.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1381290058' post='2237002']
Some people do not know what a stud wall is, and have no idea that they even need to try to locate a stud.

A setup, even one just requiring neck and bridge tweaking, is only simple if you understand how the neck, vibrating strings and bridge all work together. You (OP) understand that, great. Others may not get it, and they shouldn't be made to feel stupid because they don't get it.

There's fretbuzz. Where on the fretboard is the buzz coming from? Is it due to the neck being too straight, or too bowed? Or the neck might be fine and it's just the bridge that needs altering. These things take practice. I don't think it's as easy as you make out.
I'd agree that intonation adjustment is a much simpler and more clear cut concept.
However, if they don't get it, that's fine. They may have strengths in other areas; things which come naturally to them, but you would struggle to get to grips with.
[/quote]
Totally agree. I go to a bass teacher. He's a good teacher. A lovely guy etc, etc. but he doesn't work on his basses. Practical stuff simply isn't his field.

I think the older guys here are, sadly, more inclined to be practical than the younger guys - from my experience.
Many of those of us who grew up in the 60s and 70s had bikes and cars which were needed constant attention to keep them on the road. Less of the gear we worked used were "sealed boxes", so it was easier to gain a self-taught apprenticeship in [s]breaking[/s] mending stuff.

[lojo]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381282567' post='2236991']


I don't do electronics because I never learned how. One can't "eye" electronics. But millions of people can do it so I'm sure if I learned it wouldn't be that difficult.

[/quote]

You've just answered the oringal question, some people don't do setups for the some reason you don't do electronics

As, you say most people could if shown how, but yes I agree also that some people don't believe they could or even want to try

I could buy some components and copy a drawing and make a wiring loom, but I'd rather save the research time for something else and pay KiOgon to make one, because it's going to be right and the cost is within what I am happy to pay, if setups where 3x the price , I bet more people would learn to do thier own

[4000]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381282567' post='2236991']
How do you know it's a low standard? Because I don't have "Professional Setter-upper" as a title? lol. Trust me, my basses are set up perfectly. it's not that hard.

I don't do electronics because I never learned how. One can't "eye" electronics. But millions of people can do it so I'm sure if I learned it wouldn't be that difficult.

Nut cutting and fret dressing is not a "set up."
[/quote]

No, it's not that hard to set a bass up, providing that the nut is cut properly and the frets are properly dressed (and assuming there are no other factors like neck twist, truss rod not working etc etc). Therefore "nut cutting and fret dressing" are an essential part of any set up, even if they are not necessarily what you consider the setup per se. Semantics, ultimately.

As you have pointed out, electronics probably aren't that difficult, yet you haven't learned them and don't do them. That's how many feel about adjusting necks etc. I'm perfectly happy adjusting necks but many of the bassists I know personally are terrified of doing it, partly because of the horror stories (often myth as much as anything) that they've heard, or because they simply don't know where to start. They don't feel comfortable with it or have no experience. Just like you with electronics. How is one ok and the other not?

[kendall]

Interesting point this one. I bought my old Aria very cheap off ebay as a project. I have since, set it up, tidyed up the frets (I think they could still do with a proper going over but they play nicely, so I have left them). I replaced the pick ups, tone and vol pots, bridge, tuners and set up the neck so I have a nice low action with no fret buzz. Also isolated any external buzzing by shielding the cavity with copper. All from internet research.

This took me many months of trial and error, using the internet as a reference point. At one point, I fixed the nut with superglue and baking soda as a stop gap until I got a new nut. This repair has held up nicely over the last year - so again, I've left it.

I also used a free online set up guide from someone called Jerzy ?? which proved to be really helpful. Going through this process, has given me confidence to set up my more expensive basses myself. Although, the Aria is my go to bass now. It sounds and plays fantastic. The only outstanding item is a new paint job, but I've grown to like the worn in look!

I really enjoyed the satisfaction of learning this stuff from scratch, I made a few mistakes along the way (burnt out a new pot with the solder iron!) but my confidence, knowledge and skills have increased so much that I have performed set ups on friends guitars that have made a real difference for them.

Edited October 9, 2013 by kendall

[neepheid]

I wouldn't trust her with a bass setup, would you?

[Coilte]

I fail to see the point of this thread. OP, you have the confidence and wherewithal to do a bass set up.

Others may be lacking in one or both of the above, so prefer to get their set ups done by someone else.

Everyone approaches things in different ways.


What's the problem ?????

[Lowender]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1381317253' post='2237390']
No, it's not that hard to set a bass up, providing that the nut is cut properly and the frets are properly dressed (and assuming there are no other factors like neck twist, truss rod not working etc etc). Therefore "nut cutting and fret dressing" are an essential part of any set up, even if they are not necessarily what you consider the setup per se. Semantics, ultimately.

As you have pointed out, electronics probably aren't that difficult, yet you haven't learned them and don't do them. That's how many feel about adjusting necks etc. I'm perfectly happy adjusting necks but many of the bassists I know personally are terrified of doing it, partly because of the horror stories (often myth as much as anything) that they've heard, or because they simply don't know where to start. They don't feel comfortable with it or have no experience. Just like you with electronics. How is one ok and the other not?
[/quote]

Because if someone doesn't do a good set up, the bass will still work and they won't get electrocuted. : ) WIth electronics, you must know the specifics, with a set up, you can "see" if a neck is backbowed and you can "feel" if the action is too high and you can "hear" is there's buzz and the solution is obvious. I understand some people just can't do it. Some people can't fry an egg. Some people can't change a light bulb. My point is that I think a lot of people think it's a complex skill best left to professionals and it's really rather simple.

[Lowender]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1381322548' post='2237524']
I fail to see the point of this thread. OP, you have the confidence and wherewithal to do a bass set up.

Others may be lacking in one or both of the above, so prefer to get their set ups done by someone else.

Everyone approaches things in different ways.


What's the problem ?????
[/quote]

Who said there's a problem? The post was not condemning anyone , it was meant to be encouraging.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381323276' post='2237542']
. My point is that [u]I[/u] think a lot of people think it's a complex skill best left to professionals and it's really rather simple.
[/quote]


Yes, [i]you[/i] think so. Even if people realised how simple it was, they may still prefer to get it done professionaly.

[4000]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381323276' post='2237542']


Because if someone doesn't do a good set up, the bass will still work and they won't get electrocuted. : ) WIth electronics, you must know the specifics, with a set up, you can "see" if a neck is backbowed and you can "feel" if the action is too high and you can "hear" is there's buzz and the solution is obvious. I understand some people just can't do it. Some people can't fry an egg. Some people can't change a light bulb. My point is that I think a lot of people think it's a complex skill best left to professionals and it's really rather simple.
[/quote]

I have a friend who's an electrician. If I asked him to set his guitar up he'd cry.;-)

Again, what you define as a setup may be simple, but I would include things in a setup, at least potentially, that you wouldn't. Unless your frets etc are perfect, assuming you like low action, you simply can't do a decent basic setup.