Why Do People Think Set-Ups Are Magic?

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1381336679' post='2237839']
I have a friend who's an electrician. If I asked him to set his guitar up he'd cry.;-)

Again, what you define as a setup may be simple, but I would include things in a setup, at least potentially, that you wouldn't. Unless your frets etc are perfect, assuming you like low action, you simply can't do a decent basic setup.
[/quote]

Comes down to what you mean by "perfect" and "decent" and "low action". Also depends very much on what the action is when you start and what you want to achieve.

In principle I agree with the OP. At the end of the day it's engineering, not some sort of black art. Some people might feel more comfortable with it than others, and some might prefer to pay someone to do it for them (totally up to to them and I have no problem with that). I've always done my own. I've never done any fret dressing or nut cutting, but have always been happy enough with the results.

If I felt that the frets needed dressing then I'd probably give it to someone else to do, but relief, action, and intonation I'd always do it myself. After all if you paid someone for a set up and then decided to change make or gauge of string then it would need re-doing again anyway, which gets expensive.

I guess a significant dividing line in what people feel comfortable with is whether the action is reversible. Relief, neck shimming, Bridge height and intonation are all reversibly. Nut cutting and fret dressing aren't.

[4000]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1381338109' post='2237858']


Comes down to what you mean by "perfect" and "decent" and "low action". Also depends very much on what the action is when you start and what you want to achieve.
[/quote]

Which is exactly my point. A set up of sorts may be relatively easy. A set up of 2mm at the 12th E (I've had mine less before now) with a lower G is often a different kettle of fish. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of basses I've had that haven't needed some fretwork to play how I want them to.

[Lowender]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1381336679' post='2237839']
I have a friend who's an electrician. If I asked him to set his guitar up he'd cry.;-)

Again, what you define as a setup may be simple, but I would include things in a setup, at least potentially, that you wouldn't. Unless your frets etc are perfect, assuming you like low action, you simply can't do a decent basic setup.
[/quote]

I can't? Well, golly, I'll be damned. : )

[Lowender]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1381323514' post='2237553']
Yes, [i]you[/i] think so. Even if people realised how simple it was, they may still prefer to get it done professionaly.
[/quote]

Fair enough. But I'm a professional and I feel bad taking money for it because I can teach someone to do it in 5 minutes and have. If they choose not to, that's fine. But that's the only reason -- because they choose not to. Not because it's a complex skill.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381236488' post='2236158']
What's the mystery? If you can use a screwdriver you can do a set up. Yet there's this notion that there are special people who do "good" set ups.

Reality check...

A "good" set up is like a "good" oil change. It's either done right or it isn't. There aren't variables. Bridge height is a matter of taste but other than that, the intonation is in tune or it isn't. The neck is either in a good position or it's too flat or too bowed.

That takes a bit of an eye and I understand that some people have it and some people don't. Some people can't hand a picture straight. But that doesn't make picture hanging a special skill.

I believe everyone should learn to do their set ups. You won't hurt the instrument unless you do something ridiculously foolish. Everyone should also be aware what is needed -- either neck relief or string height. Sets ups do not fix humps or dips or warped necks. They don't make an Affinity Squier sound like Fender MIA. It's really just a step up from knowing how to tune a guitar.
[/quote]
Totally agree.

[oggiesnr]

I'm self employed, my time has a cost. It is cheaper in the long run for me to take a bass to someone who knows what they're doing than spend the time learning how to do it (possibly badly) myself. It's the same logic by which I employ an accountant, an insurance broker and a lawyer.

Steve

[Lowender]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1381353898' post='2238132']
I'm self employed, my time has a cost. It is cheaper in the long run for me to take a bass to someone who knows what they're doing than spend the time learning how to do it (possibly badly) myself. It's the same logic by which I employ an accountant, an insurance broker and a lawyer.

Steve
[/quote]

Right. Because it takes as much time to learn how to set up a bass as it does to pass the Bar exam.

[4000]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381349998' post='2238081']


I can't? Well, golly, I'll be damned. : )
[/quote]

Sorry. I forgot you were the Chuck Norris of setups.; -)

[Thunderbird]

I can set up my bass now but I must admit that if I take it to my local luthier it always feels better than if I have done it myself and it should he is a skilled man with many years experience and knows how a guitar or bass works better than I do and to be honest he is very fair with me on price as he has set up all my basses and my sons guitars in the past

[Lfalex v1.1]

Aieeeee!
Magick and Electrickery be gone, for ye are the work of the devil!
Take your feeling gauges, keys of Allen and rods of Truss and perish!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381236705' post='2236165']
Some people just won't attempt it, so they need to justify the cost of paying someone else to do it. Hey presto.
[/quote]

I also find it strange that some people mention the setup in for sale adds, and bung on the cost. Unless it was something drastic i cant see that one persons preference is worth paying extra for.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1381353898' post='2238132']
I'm self employed, my time has a cost. It is cheaper in the long run for me to take a bass to someone who knows what they're doing than spend the time learning how to do it (possibly badly) myself. It's the same logic by which I employ an accountant, an insurance broker and a lawyer.

Steve
[/quote]

So how do you justify practising your bass? You'd surely be better off not doing that yourself, but pay to go and watch someone else doing it? [size=4] [/size]
I used to be self employed, but used to allow myself some time off without thinking how much I could be earning.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1381411172' post='2238669']
I also find it strange that some people mention the setup in for sale adds, and bung on the cost. Unless it was something drastic i cant see that one persons preference is worth paying extra for.
[/quote]
Now this I do agree with, someone had a Sue Ryder P bass on here a while ago where they had added on £40 for their pro setup, packet of Rotos and ten minutes tinkering is not worth £40 to me as I dont like Rotos and I probably wont like their setup either

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1381417721' post='2238815']
So how do you justify practising your bass? You'd surely be better off not doing that yourself, but pay to go and watch someone else doing it?
I used to be self employed, but used to allow myself some time off without thinking how much I could be earning.
[/quote]

I also allow myself time off and I'd much rather spend that time practising than setting up a bass badly

Steve

[Conan]

As with most things, there is a compromise and a middle ground. Some people say "I never do set-ups and would far rather pay someone else to do it". Others say "That's daft, there are no special skills involved so do it yourself each and every time".

My view is that both are wrong (for me). I do[i] most[/i] of my own set-ups, but sometimes there is an issue that I can't (or won't) deal with. Then I call in the Bass Doc!

I don't understand why people are arguing over such a trivial thing. If you wanna do it, do it. If not, don't.

But I do agree with the OP that a "standard" set-up is a straightforward job that doesn't take much longer than changing a set of strings (unless you've got a headless Status, in which case changing strings takes seconds!).

[plumbob]

Meet my new hero Dave !!!

Dont get the wrong idea about this guy , he does know what he is doing , I just think he sometimes loses the will to live with some of the repairs he has to do , bloody hilarious !!!
Check out some of the China ebay repais and fretless conversions !

http://youtu.be/GdhCeD9R5qM

[discreet]

'Down in the money zone'.

[Lowender]

[quote name='plumbob' timestamp='1381672480' post='2242043']
Meet my new hero Dave !!!

Dont get the wrong idea about this guy , he does know what he is doing , I just think he sometimes loses the will to live with some of the repairs he has to do , bloody hilarious !!!
Check out some of the China ebay repais and fretless conversions !

[media]http://youtu.be/GdhCeD9R5qM[/media]
[/quote]

Ha! Notice -- when he adjusted the neck, he took a look -- gave it a twist -- took a look again. Neck relief complete. Total time 20- seconds.

The fact that he didn't use a tuner to check the intonation is appauling. I don't care how great your ears are, they aren't as perfect as a tuner. (Unless you want to do some stretch tuning -- which I do, but I 'd still start with a tuner). Lengthening the screw to correct the flat G string -- 15 seconds.

He checked the height of the strings with a card, though some people like the strings the curve of the board or the A or D string a little more raised. Total time -- 40 seconds -- minus the bitching.

And by the way...that D is a little sharp.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381689331' post='2242411']
Ha! Notice -- when he adjusted the neck, he took a look -- gave it a twist -- took a look again. Neck relief complete. Total time 20- seconds.

The fact that he didn't use a tuner to check the intonation is appauling. I don't care how great your ears are, they aren't as perfect as a tuner. (Unless you want to do some stretch tuning -- which I do, but I 'd still start with a tuner). Lengthening the screw to correct the flat G string -- 15 seconds.

He checked the height of the strings with a card, though some people like the strings the curve of the board or the A or D string a little more raised. Total time -- 40 seconds -- minus the bitching.

And by the way...that D is a little sharp.
[/quote]
So he is to be lauded and used as an example to support your argument even though he did a poor job?

Edited October 13, 2013 by KingBollock

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='plumbob' timestamp='1381672480' post='2242043']
Meet my new hero Dave !!!

Dont get the wrong idea about this guy , he does know what he is doing , I just think he sometimes loses the will to live with some of the repairs he has to do , bloody hilarious !!!
Check out some of the China ebay repais and fretless conversions !

[media]http://youtu.be/GdhCeD9R5qM[/media]
[/quote]

If that's an example of someone who knows what he's doing then there's no way I'm letting anyone near one of my basses.

Not impressed with him scratching the body with the loose strings, and damaging the finish when he whipped the cut ends of the strings out of the back of the bridge without lifting them clear of the back of the body.

General lack of care, approximate tuning by ear. I wouldn't have sprayed that quantity of stuff on the fingerboard either but maybe I'm being too fussy.

He did nothing I can't do for free in half the time. Not impressed

[Lowender]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1381691947' post='2242483']
So he is to be lauded and used as an example to support your argument even though he did a poor job?
[/quote]

No. I'm saying he showed that it doesn't take long, he just did it sloppily because that seems to be his personality.

[discreet]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381707482' post='2242790']
...he just did it sloppily because that seems to be his personality.
[/quote]

Possibly - or just that he's sick of his job. Same result either way.
Quite entertaining though - as long as it's not your bass on his bench.

[gjones]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381707482' post='2242790']
No. I'm saying he showed that it doesn't take long, he just did it sloppily because that seems to be his personality.
[/quote]

Yes I've watched some of his videos and they are amusing. He can be a bit slapdash but setting up a bass isn't rocket science. I'm sure the basses he works on are 100% more playable when he gives them back to his customers, than when he received them. And his customers will be the people who own basses but are scared to go anywhere near them with an allen key or a screwdriver.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1381713417' post='2242812']
Yes I've watched some of his videos and they are amusing. He can be a bit slapdash but setting up a bass isn't rocket science. I'm sure the basses he works on are 100% more playable when he gives them back to his customers, than when he received them. And his customers will be the people who own basses but are scared to go anywhere near them with an allen key or a screwdriver.
[/quote]
Some of the Basses and Guitars I've seen him work on look like the owner [i]have[/i] been at 'em with an allen key or screwdriver but with no clue or experience.

[Nick Riffed]

I suppose it's a bit like painting.
A lot of us would take a roller to the front room ceiling but wouldn't attempt to paint the Sistine chapel.