risingson Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1381431553' post='2239102'] There is loads of music out there that I would never ever buy but I might download a copy for free, listen to it once and then never again - 'take it or leave it' music. How is that depriving an artist of any money? [/quote] Because you're depriving them of their ability to get paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It's not fair to liken Spotify to illegally downloading music. As I mentioned in a post earlier, the labels have agreed to put the artists' music on there. If they didn't manage to negotiate suitable recompense that's the label's problem so everyone should stop blaming Spotify and comparing it to illegal downloading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Technology has developed in way which now hands the advantage to the consumer in so much as if they can't access the music in a reasonably affordable way or for free they have the option to access most music illegally . People like Thom Yorke are up in arms at the injustice of all this to the artists , but isn't it interesting how no one in the industry , artists included , was protesting with the same kind of indignance when the shoe was on the other foot and they had a virtual monopoly that extorted and exploited the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='paul h' timestamp='1381322979' post='2237534'] If I was in a band I would call it Desperate Fart. [/quote] I've always fancied being in Dying Corpse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1381412083' post='2238684'] They gave "In Rainbows" away. Thats about as far away from exploitation as you can get. [/quote] Have you got any sources for that or have you just made it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1381436540' post='2239212'] how are the artists actually losing out? [/quote] You can find out they suck without having given them money first. That's a terrifying thing for those who make commercial music that's reliant on you being distracted by the new shiny before you realise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1381436540' post='2239212'] Fair point. In that respect there's no real practical difference between copying music or streaming is there? Spotify pays artists hardly anything (as previously noted) and youtube is full of unauthorised uploads. Actually, youtube is another good example of how someone can browse loads of stuff, downloading as they wish, without any intention of ever paying anything. If youtube disappeared tomorrow I doubt that many people would suddenly rush out and buy loads of DVDs so, again, how are the artists actually losing out? [/quote] But there is. It might be subtle to the listener, but it's important to the artist who has produced the music. The way I see it, Spotify might be cheap for the listener to use but it requires an internet connection to work and the appropriate device with the right software installed to make use of it. Also every time you listen to an artist's music it generates a small amount of money for the artist. A fraction of a cent might not be much, but the artist gets one every time you listen and eventually it does all add up. A non-authorised download generates f***-all income for the artist. As a listener if you want the convenience of being able to listen to the music of your choice anywhere you want and whenever you want without relying on a service such as Spotify being up and running and having an internet connection with sufficient bandwidth and a suitably low contention ratio, then you need to buy either a download or the a physical CD or vinyl. I see this as the cost of having control over your listening experience with leaving it in the hands of various third parties. In the end only each individual listener can decide which way works best for them and represents the best value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='Spaced' timestamp='1381455454' post='2239465'] Have you got any sources for that or have you just made it up? [/quote] http://bit.ly/183m7u4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 now THAT is a quality thread heading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 it's payback time, remember when record labels were charging £15 for reissuing CD's, no recording, no artwork costs, they were ripping us off, same with legal downloads, 79p a track, no distribution costs, no wholesaler or retail profit margin. Didn't hear many artist complaining either, a few token moans but that was probably because they were on crap deals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [url="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/thom-yorke-warns-isolated-tribes-about-spotify-2013101180285"]DailyMash[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1381485311' post='2239652'] [url="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/thom-yorke-warns-isolated-tribes-about-spotify-2013101180285"]DailyMash[/url] [/quote] Great! Which led me to this. Totally off-topic of course, but what the hell: [url="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/fck-boots-must-stay-on-says-government-20071206582"]http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/fck-boots-must-stay-on-says-government-20071206582[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Interesting thread. The ongoing shifts in how we buy and consume music are either the "death of the industry" or a "land of opportunity", depending on who you listen to - and more often than not, what age they are. Older established artists seem to be the ones complaining about new business models, such as Spotify and direct-to-fan sales, whereas young garage bands and bedroom producers seem to be revelling in this new playing field, which offers more opportunities than disadvantages to 'DIY' music makers. The essence of it seems to be that more people are now able to earn at least [i]something[/i] from the music industry, albeit perhaps at the expense of fewer people earning a good living out of it. Is that good or bad? I really don't know. What I do know is that business models like Spotify are very popular among consumers - their success is testament to that. So it's fair to assume that 'cloud-based' music delivery is here to stay. If I were aiming to earn a living out of music then I'd be embracing these new business models with both hands. Sure, there'll always be something around the next corner waiting to replace the current trend in how we consume music - but I believe it's something musicans should be keeping pace with, or ignore at their peril. Technological 'progress' - if you want to call it that - will continue regardless of what Thom Yorke or anyone here thinks about it, so the only real option is to use it to your advantage. There's no real choice on offer. Just my tuppence worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I still haven't read ll of this thread . I think frank gambale has a valid point. briefly, I will probably join spotify premium. This will probably introduce me to bands I k ow not enough of. My cd catalogue is not expanding as it was in the 80s. I need newer artists to listen to , so spotify could be the answer. If I really like something , it will be purchased on cd. Hopefully, CD players will continue he to be made. We, the public have been ripped to shreds by the record companies in the past. Vinyl, tape , cd , mp3. One format was never enough for the greedy bar stewards. CDs £16 in the &0s !! I think spotify should pay more obviously . Maybe they should charge £12 . ? Will spotify and the others. Be forced to close down? Music is cheaper now thane ever before. The artists do deserve more too. I'll leave it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='Spaced' timestamp='1381455454' post='2239465'] Have you got any sources for that or have you just made it up? [/quote] I vaguely recall the download being available free with the option to pay what you thought it was worth. Or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1381492306' post='2239782'] I vaguely recall the download being available free with the option to pay what you thought it was worth. Or something like that. [/quote] It was, for about a month, and then the CD came out and it was pay what it costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1381489589' post='2239723'] Vinyl, tape, cd, mp3. One format was never enough for the greedy bar stewards. [/quote] I wonder how many Basschatters have never actually seen a cassette tape in the flesh, so to speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381493771' post='2239820'] I wonder how many Basschatters have never actually seen a cassette tape in the flesh, so to speak? [/quote] I've still got a drawer full of them, about 200, can't bring myself to bin them, still got a cassette player never use it though, it's easier to go on spotify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1381492306' post='2239782'] I vaguely recall the download being available free with the option to pay what you thought it was worth. Or something like that. [/quote] [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1381492641' post='2239794'] It was, for about a month, and then the CD came out and it was pay what it costs. [/quote] Wikipedia reckons it was available on "pay what you want" for two months between October and December 2007. When they released the physical edition of it on cd in 2008 it went to number 1 in the UK and the US and they [i]sold [/i]more than 3,000,000 copies of it in addition to all the free copies. Really impressive. Sayeth [url="http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/radiohead-publishers-reveal-in-rainbows-numbers-20081015"]Rolling Stone Magazine[/url]: [left][color=#000000][i]In all, there have been three million purchases of In Rainbows (including CDs, vinyls, box sets and digital sales) since the band began selling the album officially on New Year's Day 2008. Warner Chappell didn't reveal how much the band actually made total in the "pay-what-you-want" facet, but admitted more people downloaded the album for free than paid for it. Still, the three million in total sales — 100,000 of which came from the $80 box sets — is a hugely-successful number considering the album was both given away for free and that it was actually downloaded [url="http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/10/18/in-rainbows-quandary-downloaders-stealing-free-music/"]more times via Bit Torrent[/url] than free and legally through Radiohead's own site.[/i][/color][/left] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381493771' post='2239820'] I wonder how many Basschatters have never actually seen a cassette tape in the flesh, so to speak? [/quote] Home taping was never in danger of killing music because it was too expensive and time-consuming. There was a point in 80s where I sold most of my vinyl in order to fund another synthesiser purchase. I contemplated taping all the records first, but after a morning of working out how much all the cassettes to do this would cost and how long the process would take, I decided that I would hang on to the vinyl I really couldn't live without and sell the rest without bothering to tape it first. Cassettes believe it or not are making a bit of a come back. The next Terrortones release will probably be a live "bootleg" on cassette. And we're not the only ones doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381493771' post='2239820']I wonder how many Basschatters have never actually seen a cassette tape in the flesh, so to speak? [/quote] I've got a bin liner full of old tapes that I really need to sift through someday soon. In fact, I started 'producing' music as a kid by chopping and looping samples using a bog standard tape-to-tape player. Massively frustrating and pointless it was too. But it's how I first got the bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1381497417' post='2239891'] I've got a bin liner full of old tapes that I really need to sift through someday soon. In fact, I started 'producing' music as a kid by chopping and looping samples using a bog standard tape-to-tape player. Massively frustrating and pointless it was too. But it's how I first got the bug. [/quote] i threw away most of my cassettes when i moved house in the summer. it was surprisingly emotional, i could remember where and when I got every single one of them, who i borrowed the original off, sometimes who i had nicked the blank from, and stuff like that. I kept a few for sentimental reasons, including a clapton tape my Dad bought me when i was 11, after persistently asking me all the way to the till, if I really wanted this old stuff that was around when he was a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1381498363' post='2239910']I kept a few for sentimental reasons, including a clapton tape my Dad bought me when i was 11, after persistently asking me all the way to the till, if I really wanted this old stuff that was around when he was a kid.[/quote] I've got a similarly sentimental tape of the Traveling Wilburys that I got given by my old man. He's asked for it back since but I was keen to keep the tape, so I bought him the same collection on CD, which he was happy with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [url="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/thom-yorke-warns-isolated-tribes-about-spotify-2013101180285"]http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/thom-yorke-warns-isolated-tribes-about-spotify-2013101180285[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarebear68 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1381328152' post='2237670'] Millions of record sales say otherwise. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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