Do I want to sell my Bergs and go Barefaced?

[molan]

[quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1381574689' post='2240764']
Wow, good luck with white!! I like to look after my gear as well but there's an ocd side to me that couldn't deal the fear of a white cab getting a mark!!
[/quote]

I had a pair of the white Aguilar DB112's, with a dark ox-blood grille, for a while

Looked awesome on stage and never really picked up any marks that I remember. I did keep them in Aggie's own padded covers when moving them around though, way better than the cheapo aftermarket ones.

[molan]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884']
To be read with a sense of whimsy. Not a rant.


Gaf
[/quote]

I agree with so much of what you've said here Gaf.

I've definitely been accused of not being to hear properly by BF owners in the past

By complete chance I also have a lovely little Bergantino AE210 sitting right next to me as I'm typing this

[JTUK]

Not sure on this 'hearing thing right'... I mean, who in their right mind would say that... seriously?
And who would take any notice...?

People have actually said that to you guys and you aren't still on the floor laughing..????

FWIW, I've heard the same sentiment as Gaf's post said over a good few times but I don't think many can be bothered to repeat it here...
and that is their choice.

As for sell the Bergs..??? hmm, I can use AE112's and I think the CN112's are enough of a step on, to make me think about replacing them
with CN's..... but they aren't my go-to rig anyway, so I can't see me doing that.

I'd be more tempted to go TKS 1216 if the Bergs are on the way out...
One point... the Berg cabs can barely fit a rack on them...so that counts against them as well.

Edited October 13, 2013 by JTUK

[Merton]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and frankly without different choices and views the world would be a dull place. It's just a shame BF seem to continually generate these stupid long love/hate threads. Build a bridge one and all, let's find something else to rant at each other about!

So....

Ashdown... Wooly? Discuss

[Salt on your Bass?]

Oh, great! I'm a bf owner.... Soon to be g3, and I'm pairing it with an Ashdown! Can I please catch a break!!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1381676653' post='2242135']
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and frankly without different choices and views the world would be a dull place. It's just a shame BF seem to continually generate these stupid long love/hate threads. Build a bridge one and all, let's find something else to rant at each other about!

So....

Ashdown... Wooly? Discuss
[/quote]

Edited October 13, 2013 by Salt on your Bass?

[clauster]

[quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1381681936' post='2242237']
Oh, great! I'm a bf owner.... Soon to be g3, and I'm pairing it with an Ashdown! Can I please catch a break!!
[/quote]

An Ashdown head is the best thing I have put through my BF Compact.

[M@23]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1381669439' post='2241984']
I think what gets peoples goat is the BF fans always sign off with, "blew away my MarkBass" or "Brand X are not comparable" when they clearly are, If you like the tone thats cool and the weight saving is great but why end the response with the non factual bits almost everytime.[/quote]

Yes!

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1381523811' post='2240401']
Markbasses cabs aren't nearly an equivalent but are cheaper, while many are still more expensive and either won't go nearly as loud or be as light. [/quote]

Based on what? I take it you have owned, extensively gigged and lived with at LEAST one MB cab to make such a sweeping generalisation?!
I think what Barefaced are doing is great, I look forward to reading what Alex has to say on cab related matters, but inevitably, in a Barefaced thread opinion will be stated as fact. Just because technically something might be 'better' on paper doesn't mean it will be to all of the people all of time. I should add, if it wasn't obvious, I have owned 3 MB cabs and hopefully in the not too distant future will be able to look into getting a Barefaced.

[Merton]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1381688796' post='2242391']
but inevitably, in a Barefaced thread opinion will be stated as fact.
[/quote]

Unfortunately that happens in any topic both here and other forums. Try the P bass vs anything else debate...

[discreet]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1381676653' post='2242135']
Ashdown... Woolly?
[/quote]

Of course not!! ...Just make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy, that's all.

[nottswarwick]

I had a compact on trial ages ago and my then Ashdown ABM 500 matched it well.

[wateroftyne]

This is a strange thread.

Most brands have loyal customers. Why are Barefaced are being singled out?

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Si 23' timestamp='1381688796' post='2242391']


Based on what? I take it you have owned, extensively gigged and lived with at LEAST one MB cab to make such a sweeping generalisation?!

[/quote]

Yes several, so no sweeping generalization was made. I love the heads though.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And at 40lbs. They ain't too heavy either. [/font][/color]
[/quote]

Anything over 30lbs is "too heavy" for me and at 27lbs the compact really has no competition in this weight range for a high powered efficient cab that decently handles the low b on a 5 string.

[sk8]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884']
To be read with a sense of whimsy. Not a rant.

I generally avoid posting in BF threads, for a number of reasons.
It's been getting more and more like the hysterical EBMM or R**K forums on here where this subject is concerned.
My feeling on this fawning is that it's most likely, in most cases, unconsciously perhaps, seated in sycophancy. A subtle hope that Alex will note those who leap to defence in their deferential way, and maybe, just maybe, return the favour in some way. That and/or a sense of satisfaction of a 'fame by association' thing; being able to wax lyrical about how they are on first name terms with the Barefaced guy.
That's one reason, people get weird over it.

Another is that having watched closely from the idea, to the beginnings, to where Alex is today, I've nothing but support for him and what he's done/doing. It's a HUGE hats off from me, wether I like the product or not, and I don't want to damage that.

But this one is the biggie, why I generally avoid BF threads...'cause if you criticise the cabs in anyway, you always get leapt on by one of the fanatical few insisting that its your playing, you must suck, you must have cloth ears, you must be used to crap gear, you don't know how to listen properly, you're playing it wrong, you're listening wrong, you've stacked it wrong, it's the wrong room/amp/bass/technique/settings, you dont know what you're doing!!!
Etc
Etc
Etc

That bugs me.

Prior to buying, and owning, and gigging BF cabs
(in a variety of venues, inside and outside, big and small, loud and quiet, with a range of basses, active and passive, with a range of musical styles. )
I'd owned a full trace stack, AH400 smx, bright box, the works, other stacks including a prototype laney beast, god knows how many heads,Warwick to H||H, peavey, Marshall, promethean, you name it.
And that's just what I've owned, in a working capacity I've played through everything else I hadn't owned. Amped, GK, ashdown. Etc etc etc
I was running a mark bass LM2 into a pair of mark bass 2x10's when I decided to change to BF.

I bought a compact and a midget T and a Genz shuttle 9. To lighten my rig further.

Loved the portability, I could carry a midget to gigs!

Hated the looks, looked poorly made, grills badly cut, badly fitted, with sticky foam tape behind them looking awful. Not at all what I'd expected at the price point.
The parts, fit and finish we're awful. Folks took the mickey!!
I felt no pride in ownership, more a creeping sense I'd wasted my money. I missed my markbass cabs.

Btw I quite liked the litte promethean combo and matching extension cab I had for a while, but it all broke

The handle meant my head wouldn't sit, so I used soft feet. The cabs finish started to react with them!
I tried hard feet, the amp slid about.
Folks still laughed at my home made cabs, and asked why the badges were different ways around. And why I kept sticking my head and hand in the port.
...Because I needed to adjust the tweeter, constantly, because I just could NOT get a good, consistent sound, that sounded like me?!

The midget sounded like an old school, boxy 12" driver in a small box, loud because it had a ton of mid, I tried it on the floor, on a table, in a corner, under the table, etc etc Still sounded like I'd expect a 12" in a small box to sound.

The compact sounded like an old school, Woolley 15" speaker in a small box. Exactly like I'd expect one to. No bite, attack, no tonal 'complexity' or punch to speak of. Just a big, old fashioned woofy, retro bass sound.
Together they sounded, well, like those two things stacked on top of each other. A bit more 'solid' perhaps. But still very 'twelvey'. Not the punch and response I'd grown to love when using tens.

All the things that break the speaker configuration rules. Yes. I Know that you cant say a speaker size sounds like this or that etc, based on graphs and maths, but in use, I can. Maybe some cant, maybe some drivers i cant, but these, im sorry held no surprises in that department.
It's at this point I can hear the frantic typing of outraged fingers, 'You were listening wrong! You are just used to hearing tens, you are used to hearing it wrong! It's the colour, you couldn't play without the colour!! Youre listening with your eyes!!! You suck!!'

Go for it.

I'm a very good player,in this company I don't say that lightly. But I am, and ive been gigging some 22 years ish. From the crappy local to the Hammersmith apollo/SECC/various apollo theaters, huge festivals etc etc I've worked as a sound engineer, as a bass player/musician, in hi-Fi and audio business' my whole life.
I have good ears and know what I'm listening to and for.

But you go ahead and tell me it's my untrained, inexperienced ears.
Ymmv, each to their own etc, you hear/see what you do, i hear/see what I do.
But please dont tell me I'm wrong because I'm not good enough to own them, which has been levelled at me on here before!!

So I lived with em, I got other players to play them, I tried a range of heads and settings through them I contacted Alex, he was VERY helpful, and insightful. He knew his gear, and how they would react to different heads etc. he was always dead right.

Trouble was, I just couldn't get away from the way they looked and sounded. Cheap, home made, impractical design issues, a middy, barky, boxy 12, and a big, flumpy 15.
Id escaped those sounds way back. Even my markbass 15" had sounded fast, full ranged, and just more 'complete' than the compact.

Loved the weight though. But pride in ownership escaped me. My bass playing friends also remained baffled by them. They simply didn't see the appeal... beyond the weight.

Even though I DI often, (not always, not by a long shot) and the cab sound was for me, and the weight was a critical factor. Hugely so. I simply couldn't live with the tone. It took away my enjoyment, and with it my groove, my feel and my concentration, I started to find myself distracted by trying get a decent sound and RESPONSE out of them.
I gave up trying.

So I sold them, and bought Bergantino AE210's.

Dear god!!! Best music money I've ever spent! Nothing I've EVER played through has made such a difference to my sound. I've no intention of moving them on till I can no longer lift them or make someone lift them for me.
When that's the case, I'll go straight back to barefaced and give the new stuff a whirl, I know lots of these issues he's addressed already so hopefully by then Alex will have built them into a British juggernaut of manufacturing and export. Hopefully he'll have forgotten that I criticised his cabs online too.

But for now the bergantinos are beautifully built in every tiny detail. They ooze class, prestige, care and attention. They are easy to get a stunning sound out of with any amp I've tried. I went back to markbass with the head, ditching the Genz for a MoMark.
They are VERY loud, never distressed, always composed, punchy, detailed, with a 3D quality to them. I feel proud to set em up onstage, even though they are pretty innocuous from a distance. Especially after my glowing eight foot trace monster.

But for just effortlessly sounding beautiful, in any venue, big or small, indoors or out, loud or quiet, with any head, or bass, active or passive, or tuned down to C with a huge synth sound.
They just can't be beaten.
And at 40lbs. They ain't too heavy either.

For gigs where I used to use a midget, I now play a GK MB112 ii combo. At low volumes it sounds amazing, very very good, easy to get a fantastic sound from. At volume, it goes middy, and boxy, and starts to sound like a 12 in a small box, just like the midget T did at any volume. Its certainly not left me lacking in comparison to the midget T audible, appreciable volume with tone. IME IMHO ETC)
But. The GK looks like a berg in its fit and finish, and I don't need to carry a head. A good buy I think.
Incidentally, they all have a similar, 'painted' finish.

So there you go.

Flame away if you wish, deride if you wish, but maybe first, if its not what you want to read/think/hear/see. Then. Perhaps, instead of leaping to BF's defence, lance in hand, all wounded purchaser pride and hoping for a discount or free handle, or just a 'handshake' from the man himself, just give a shrug and move on to a more suitable post for you. These are my experiences and opinions, it's past and done, so I can't change them.

So please don't have a pop at me all offended, I probably won't respond anyway. I just wanted to pass on my experiences as an actual owner of three BF cabs.
(Yes, three, I even bought a midget AGAIN!!! Just to check!! Still didn't like it.)

If you enjoy your barefaced cabs, then great. Enjoy them. Not for me, neither is the colour red or sopranos, or FIAT. Y'know.
I'm so impressed with what you've achieved Alex.

These days I think a lot less about my gear. It just does what I want it to do, when I want it to. Maybe It's why I post less, maybe it's the kids. Who knows.

Peace.

Gaf
[/quote]

Well said that man!

Think one if those AE210s was mine. I tenner delivering it to you

[skychaserhigh]

Over 30lbs is too heavy for bass gear ? Blimey , that cuts down your options just a bit.....

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1381739052' post='2242884']
Over 30lbs is too heavy for bass gear ? Blimey , that cuts down your options just a bit.....
[/quote]

Not any more....

[Marvin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1381739198' post='2242887']


Not any more....
[/quote]

That's entirely dependant on someone's budget. Lightweight gear is still expensive, I certainly can't afford it.

[Toasted]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1381676437' post='2242128']
Not sure on this 'hearing thing right'... I mean, who in their right mind would say that... seriously?
And who would take any notice...?

People have actually said that to you guys and you aren't still on the floor laughing..????[/quote]

It happens all the time from the Barefaced Fanboys. There's examples of it in this thread. As you say - laugh and move on.

[i]Thou shalt not question the Claber scriptures![/i]

[alexclaber]

Thanks gaf! I hope that with the new Generation Three cabs we've addressed all the aesthetic/cosmetic issues you've commented on - let us know if/when you get to see one. Tonally, it's impossible to keep everyone happy but I also believe with the new models we've come much closer to making the (impossible) ideal bass cab - time will tell...

[discreet]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1381743546' post='2242952']
...it's impossible to keep everyone happy...
[/quote]

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1381740374' post='2242900']


That's entirely dependant on someone's budget. Lightweight gear is still expensive, I certainly can't afford it.
[/quote]

The genz focus LT stuff is silly cheap and not too heavy. The Ampeg svt210 are 11kgs and are cheap cheap cheap.

[eddiehoffmann]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1381676653' post='2242135']
So....

Ashdown... Wooly? Discuss
[/quote]

My rig consists of a S12 and either an Ashdown ABM500 or a Spyder 550. It sounds great and I think the fact that band mates and soundmen alike constantly compliment me on my tone means I'm not alone in that opinion.

Like someone mentioned before, perhaps with Barefaced cabs more so than with other brands, you have to go about the eq-ing process with a fresh approach. Specially regarding the mids. Before my S12 I was using an Aguilar GS 212, which is a great cab, but needed way more mids and a touch less bass dialled in than the S12 requires to achieve my sound. In comparison to the Aguilar, I feel the Barefaced fills the room better. Also, the Aguilar sounded too compressed to my ears when playing loud. The S12 sounds better the louder you play, I'm not joking. I play in a band where the guy who runs it doesn't want to spend money on a decent PA or on a car big enough to carry one, so our PA is small and barely god enough for the vocals. I can't get away with a cab that's good enough for monitoring purposes only in that gig. The moment I bought the S12 the problem was sorted. The way it fills a marquee wit beautiful bass it's a bit supernatural, hehe. I have to play loud on stage, granted, but that's all I can do. And wear earplugs

[Marvin]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1381744329' post='2242967']
The genz focus LT stuff is silly cheap and not too heavy. The Ampeg svt210 are 11kgs and are cheap cheap cheap.
[/quote]

Don't tell me things like that, I'll get GAS

[JTUK]

Light AND cheap is tougher.

40lbs for a cab isn't heavy but it may be too heavy for some.

2 single 12's would be a good way to start in terms of light units and the Bergs NEO's would come in around 30lb, IIRC.

EBS Classic 112 are ok... but I think you know where they have skimped to make the price. A friend who has them says his Ampeg 410
is far better.

For keen prices and better kit, maybe look at Epi UL cabs that crop up in the classifieds here.

I know there is volume AND volume but I don't see the point of single 12's... as I can't seea gig that they would do, bar the jazzer.
But then again, I don't want a cab straining to get the sound out either, so I'd always be thinking a pr.

Haven't heard the GK versions, but the price gets them noticed.

Brand new... considered top end light 112's are going to cost easiliy £1000 plus, I think.

[fretmeister]

Well, after all this I'm probably going to buy......

a couple of Berg CN112!

I shall now run to the hills having caused this thread!