Victor Wooton Ain't So Great

[discreet]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381491614' post='2239763']
See this is the thing, I don't know if Lowender was extracting the urine when he posted this and his comment...
[/quote]

I'm quite sure he was and I was too - partly.
The Van Halen bass line is valid of course, but frankly even I would find it hard not put a couple of passing notes in!

Edited October 11, 2013 by discreet

[4000]

[quote name='bassninja' timestamp='1381443641' post='2239379']
Anyone might like technically 'unimpressive' things too, or both, or not be bothered either way. Personally, I get as much out of [b]Richard Bona[/b] as I get out of [b]Motorhead[/b].

I think we probably agree about the joy of enjoying a rich variety of music.
[/quote]

Two of my favourites right there. Good call.

The fact that some people seem to have a problem with technical stuff in its entirety or simple stuff in its entirety baffles me. As further examples, I love John McLaughlin and Jah Wobble. And Return to Forever and bagpipes.

[xilddx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381491954' post='2239774']
I'm quite sure he was and I was too - partly.
The Van Halen bass line is valid of course, but frankly even I would find it hard not put a couple of passing notes in!
[/quote]



What's the reason you would find it hard to resist putting in some passing notes?

[discreet]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381492574' post='2239791']
What's the reason you would find it hard to resist putting in some passing notes?
[/quote]

Hard to avoid [i]some [/i]embellishment, even if it's a couple of ghosts or a brief stop, or [i]something![/i]
[size=4]Though it would depend largely on what sort of drugs the drummer brought with him. [/size]

[xilddx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381493547' post='2239816']
Hard to avoid [i]some [/i]embellishment, even if it's a couple of ghosts or a brief stop, or [i]something![/i]
[size=4]Though it would depend largely on what sort of drugs the drummer brought with him. [/size]
[/quote]

Amen to that

[fumps]

I love playing bass because i hate fret w*nking

Then I see Bass players doing it..........Sorry it's just boring.

***starts picking nose***

[Dingus]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381439201' post='2239270']
You're all right. He stinks. What was I thinking? This might be more to everyone's liking. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn2Fj3I-hkw[/media]
[/quote]

Thats a great bassline played ( contrary to what I have read written by some people on Basschat in the past) by a very capable bass player in Michael Anthony . It's a superb song , and it wouldn't be the same without that bass part.

I have nothing at all against flamboyant or busy bass playing , providing it sounds good and works well within the wider musical context, but for my taste the examples of "virtuosity" in this thread all fall on their face because they all fail to be of any real interest , and ultimately just plain don't sound good. There is nothing in the music that really says anything except" I am doing something unusual and technically challenging that you don't usually hear on the bass guitar", and that has a very limited appeal. So what if your playing arrangements of E.L.P songs by two handed tapping on a six sting bass? You could make things even harder for yourself by strapping both hands behind your back and play them on a kazoo strategically gaffer taped onto your sphincter whilst you stand on your head and it still wouldn't be very interesting from a musical perspective ( although I have to admit, it would be quite a gymnastic achievement ).

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dingus

[Sibob]

Generally speaking I really dislike solo-bass slapping and tapping, Victor Wooten falls into that category largely for me. However, he is an excellent educator, and an even better player when he's not on a, what is for him, a money/rent gig (clinics, demos, slap-bonanza). He even says that he wishes he got calls for more 'normal' gigs, yes he's partly to blame for his own fate here, but we've all got to pay the rent huh
A couple of exceptions of solo bass for me is Steve Lawson, and these two:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njr6gMVOQVw[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o021pie-PC0[/media]


Oh yeah, forgot, didn't like the original video, didn't speak to me on any level. No problem

Si

[Dingus]

I rate Richard Bona as one of the best players in the World at the moment, and I wouldn't lump him in with the examples of solo playing we have seen so far in so much as he is essentially acting as an accompanist to his own singing. His style and choices make perfect sense, and the final result is beautiful.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dingus

[Lowender]

This thread is so typical of so many message boards and a microcosm of mentalities. Anything unknown is almost never appreciated. Success breeds success. You can't argue with it just as you can't defend failure. And there's another emotion at play. Fear. When someone does something beyond one's capabilities, it creates a defense mechanism. There's an instant self protection mechanism that goes into play. It's called "finding fault." It allows us to rationalize the situation in our minds and convince ourself that there's no threat. It elliminates the need to think that there are others who exceed.

If someone is famous -- they're a hero. We "know" them. They're friends. This is why people are so enamored of celebrity. But in all the time I've been on message boards, I can't think of a single time someone unknown was universally accepted, no matter how great they may be. There's always a few people who will find fault.

I have no problem with critiqing. I do it plenty. But falling into cliche's to create distance in an effort of not have to appreciate something is just lame. This thread reminds me a guy I knew who said he was disappointed when seeing the Collesseum because it was "small." lol

Look, I may not want Rembrandt pictures on my wall. That doesn't make Rembrant sh*te. The whole purpose of presenting this post was to share a moment of someone who so obviously has extraordinary ability-- at the thing we all do and claim to love. And what's the reaction? Noodling? W*nking? Unmusicial? Boring? That's not clever. It doesn't make you sound "above it. " That's just ignorance. Reinforced by the ignorance of others. Even if you HATE it, anyone with ears must know that the person's skill level is phenomenal. Even if you don't praise it, trying to knock it down just demonstrates an obvious insecurity. I see no need for that.

I think some people need to reevaluate their role as musicians. If you can only embrace what is within your comfort zone you will neither improve nor most likely be very creative. Art is seeing beyond the norm. It's a vision of a better life. But in some cases, you can show someone the cure for cancer and they'll find fault with it. Not everyone -- but enough people to make it unpleasant for everyone.

Lighten up. The next time you hear someone who you may not understand, or if you think isn;t as complex as others say, instead on getting on line and complaining about it. Pick up the bass and do some of what he or she is doing. Maybe share a technique or two. Contribute. Anyone can complain. THAT is boring.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Lowender

[Ziphoblat]

^ I think the way to avoid such "animosity" would be not to introduce the person by trying to objectively compare them to an established player. It kind of goes against everything you described in your post.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1381497378' post='2239889']
I rate Richard Bona as one of the best players in the World at the moment, and I wouldn't lump him in with the examples of solo playing we have seen so far in so much as he is essentially acting as an accompanist to his own singing. His style and choices make perfect sense, and the final result is beautiful.
[/quote]

Well yes, I agree, however 'solo bass' seems to be a broad term, chordal playing etc etc, so figured it was a good excuse to post the video

Si

[xilddx]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381497693' post='2239896']
This thread is so typical of so many message boards and a microcosm of mentalities. Anything unknown is almost never appreciated. Success breeds success. You can't argue with it just as you can't defend failure. And there's another emotion at play. Fear. When someone does something beyond one's capabilities, it creates a defense mechanism. There's an instant self protection mechanism that goes into play. It's called "finding fault." It allows us to rationalize the situation in our minds and convince ourself that there's no threat. It elliminates the need to think that there are others who exceed.

If someone is famous -- they're a hero. We "know" them. They're friends. This is why people are so enamored of celebrity. But in all the time I've been on message boards, I can't think of a single time someone unknown was universally accepted, no matter how great they may be. There's always a few people who will find fault.

I have no problem with critiqing. I do it plenty. But falling into cliche's to create distance in an effort of not have to appreciate something is just lame. This thread reminds me a guy I knew who sa he was disappointed in the Collesseum because it was "small." lol

Look, I may not want Rembrandt pictures on my wall. That doesn't make Rembrant sh*te. The whole purpose of presenting this post was to share a moment of someone who so obviously has extraordinary ability-- at the thing we all do and claim to love. And what's the reaction? Noodling? W*nking? Unmusicial? Boring? That's not clever. It doesn't make you sound "above it. " That's just ignorance. Reinforced by the ignorance of others. Even if you HATE it, anyone with ears must know that the person's skill level is phenomenal. Even if you don't praise it, trying to knock it down just demonstrates an obvious insecurity. I see no need for that.

I think some people need to reevaluate their role as musicians. If you can only embrace what is within your comfort zone you will neither improve nor most likely be very creative. Art is seeing beyond the norm. It's a vision of a better life. But in some cases, you can show someone the cure for cancer and they'll find fault with it. Not everyone -- but enough people to make it unpleasant for everyone.
[/quote]

You talking bout yourself here, right?

The fact is, you posted a video of a guy who played a pointless, soulless solo piece, and played it badly, you claimed he was amazing and better than Vic Wooten (who isn't my taste, but he's one of the most accomplished players on the planet) and now you're pissed off because people don't agree with you.

Go and have a sh*t and a think.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1381497817' post='2239901']
^ I think the way to avoid such "animosity" would be not to introduce the person by trying to objectively compare them to an established player. It kind of goes against everything you described in your post.
[/quote]

this

and in your thread title using a turn of phrase that is overtly provoking a response?

just saying etc etc

[RhysP]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381497693' post='2239896']
I think some people need to reevaluate their role as musicians. If you can only embrace what is within your comfort zone you will neither improve nor most likely be very creative. Art is seeing beyond the norm. It's a vision of a better life.
[/quote]

Playing emotionally sterile, technique-for-techniques-sake solo versions of ELP songs to a crowd made up largely of balding middled aged men who still live with their mothers is not my idea of "a vision of a better life".........

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1381498992' post='2239916']
Playing emotionally sterile, technique-for-techniques-sake solo versions of ELP songs to a crowd made up largely of balding middled aged men who still live with their mothers is not my idea of "a vision of a better life".........
[/quote]

were you at that genesis gig i went to in earls court c.98 ?

[RhysP]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1381499373' post='2239923']
were you at that genesis gig i went to in earls court c.98 ?
[/quote]

I was there with my mum.

[stu_g]

i gotta say i just dont like bass solo's ,in my youth i was all for a drum or bass solo
i just dont understand some of these bass players with say 6 string plus basses doing all this solo shenanighans
they should get a guitar it would sound nicer
i wouldnt go busking with a bass if i wanted to get any money

[Sibob]

What is probably more productive than people trying argue which subjective view is correct is posting your response in the form of a 'musical' bass solo/piece.
A clash!!
Lets make Rodigan proud!

Si

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='stu_g' timestamp='1381499582' post='2239928']
i gotta say i just dont like bass solo's ,in my youth i was all for a drum or bass solo
i just dont understand some of these bass players with say 6 string plus basses doing all this solo shenanighans
they should get a guitar it would sound nicer
i wouldnt go busking with a bass if i wanted to get any money
[/quote]

Very few bass solos that I like, and the ones I do tend to be slower melodic ones; Slap and tap fests leave me pretty cold.

My favourite bass solo has to be Martin Turner's at the start of Wishbone Ash's Handy (on the "Wishbone Ash" album).

Edited to add a link:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcT_I8kxZ4[/media]


Edited again to say. I really hope that this is a solo and not multi-tracked.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Count Bassy

[xilddx]

Beautiful tone, composition and execution, the antithesis of the video Lowender posted in the OP.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2i_04z8XY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2i_04z8XY[/url]

[4 Strings]

[quote name='RoRi' timestamp='1381421111' post='2238907']
Terrible he even can't stand in the shadow of Victor.
[/quote]

+1. Very clever, but not very interesting. He's clearly spent a lot of time on this though.

I was privileged to be at the VW workshop at the now empty Digital Village in Romford. He was amazing. His timing, accuracy, musical knowledge and downright groove put him on a pedestal for me. Whereas my previous experience of him was his tricks, which get put up on Youtube, his history and demeanour put him among the greats for me.

Even if this Brain Salad of a tune (which I didn't recognise) is more clever than something VW does to my mind, no, he's not in his shadow.

Having said that, I don't have one record with VW playing on it.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381500732' post='2239948']
Beautiful tone, composition and execution, the antithesis of the video Lowender posted in the OP.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2i_04z8XY[/media]
[/quote]

Needs the silk gloves to lose those string squeaks as he changes chords. I use elixirs to lose then from my significantly less fiddly chord changes.

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1381501075' post='2239956']
Needs the silk gloves to lose those string squeaks as he changes chords. I use elixirs to lose then from my significantly less fiddly chord changes.
[/quote]

Yeah, very nice playing, the string squeak just gets a bit distracting.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1381501137' post='2239958']
Yeah, very nice playing, the string squeak just gets a bit distracting.
[/quote]

Yep, same here. A classical guitar player would have conquered this a long time before. However, the tone here is trebly and so would accentuate squeaks which would have been missed on a classical guitar (where three strings are unwound and the others with much thinner wire). However, if I concentrate on squeak removal at my comparatively basic level of playing, a bit more attention to it would, to my mind, improve things.