JTUK Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I find running an amp rated at 700/4 in 600/8 and 350/8 cabs just loads the lower powered cab too much. I can get a far better sound with regards to cabs not stressing running the same amp at 600/8 cabs.... I have the volume in the amp to spare, but the cab...altho drawing less watts into the resistance, still put out ALL the volume I need. Ok, so I run it with higher output, but the amp can do that all day... it doesn't worry about the load. I don't know how the PV behaves when pushed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1381776570' post='2243643'] I find running an amp rated at 700/4 in 600/8 and 350/8 cabs just loads the lower powered cab too much. I can get a far better sound with regards to cabs not stressing running the same amp at 600/8 cabs.... I have the volume in the amp to spare, but the cab...altho drawing less watts into the resistance, still put out ALL the volume I need. Ok, so I run it with higher output, but the amp can do that all day... it doesn't worry about the load. I don't know how the PV behaves when pushed [/quote] I have used those amps with the matching 8x10, weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Altho I take plugs to a rehearsal, I would be most p**** if I had to use them. Besides, the P.A will struggle before anything else in the rooms we use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1381776729' post='2243647'] I have used those amps with the matching 8x10, weak. [/quote] The PV..??? don't know it. I assume if is a very attractive price for the rated output so I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't very good at actually hitting that. The point about subs being a drain is true.... IME.. but why would you build that flaw in..esp if hititng 700 wasn't easy in the 1st place. But as I say... I don't know the amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) I have tried the whole range extensively about 5 years ago, all the rooms are (were) peavey equipped, pa, bass, guitar and keyboard amps. The different sized rooms had a suitable sized rig with the best room having the top of the range rigs and best pa, I like peavey gear and was in the market for a new amp at the time to replace my ashdown rig (faulty) on paper they were perfect and just a matter of choosing which one, bought a shuttle 6.0 and a 2x12T cab Edited October 14, 2013 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1381775834' post='2243623'] The problem is with cabs, and user with those. Those amps can put out far more lows than cabs can cope with, giving the farting out and DDT light, and if its like the firebass, has various ways of scooping mids, like the contour control that is scooping them in the middle of its travel, so centring everything doesn't help. Consequently they eat cabs without appearing very loud if you don't look after the EQ. [/quote] I'm glad that my experience of running this amp counts for nothing. User error. Yup, that's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The larger the cab system, the further away the sound focus will be, meaning in rehearsal you are probably not hearing what the amp's doing at all, and fewer drivers running will strangely be easier to hear close up. Anyone running a rehearsal room who gets an 8x10 in it unless it's the size of a large pub and the bassist is standing 30ft+ away from it is wasting money and space. Crazy. The previous advice of only using the 4x10 on top of the 2x10, and getting further away from the amp is about right. That along with turning down. I've gigged guitar using a 15watt valve guitar amp with 1x12 speaker (modded Blues Junior). 4x12 is not a good thing for the band, despite the guitarist liking the knob extension factor. I found 4x10 guitar seriously excessive and sized down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 [quote name='Karnage' timestamp='1382045265' post='2247319'] The larger the cab system, the further away the sound focus will be, meaning in rehearsal you are probably not hearing what the amp's doing at all, and fewer drivers running will strangely be easier to hear close up. [/quote] Doesn't work like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 [quote name='Karnage' timestamp='1382045265' post='2247319'] The larger the cab system, the further away the sound focus will be... [/quote] Pardon me but what is 'sound focus'? Can you explain the physics of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Your ear picks up part of the projected wave from all the speakers, somewhat down to the size of the side of your head. Get a much larger sound field by using a larger rig, and your ear close up will get a small percentage of what's more audible further away. Get 50 watts through a raised 4x10 and it will be easier to hear close up than 50 watts through an 8x10, but 30 feet away the 8x10 will sound louder. That's what I mean by the 'focus being further away'. I understand why Mr. Foxen doesn't like my terminology (trying badly to communicate maybe), but the principle is there from experience as sound engineer as well as bass player, and my degree in physics too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1382050460' post='2247429'] Pardon me but what is 'sound focus'? Can you explain the physics of this? [/quote] I think he is referring to comb filtering or phase effects. Google comb filtering if you want the physics. Speakers go both back and forwards to make a sound. Put two speakers 1/4 wavelength apart and by the time the air pushed forward from one speaker reaches the other that speaker is 'sucking' the air back and the sound cancels. If you have a big speaker like a 6x10 then the top speakers are a different distance from your ears from the bottom ones and you lose some of the frequencies. Move out into the room and the angles to your ears change and the frequencies you lose will change, there's hot spots and cold spots for each frequency all through the room. This is further complicated because the sound will reflect off the hard surfaces in the room with lots of different path lengths. Where you are in the room will affect the sound you hear and there isn't anywhere you hear the 'right' sound really. By the time you are halfway back in the audience most of the bass they hear will be reflected and they are likely to be hearing a similar sound balance to their immediate neighbour. The other effect of all this is that even all the bits of a single speaker cone can have different path lengths to your ears and cancel sound. In practice if a frequency has a wavelength shorter than the diameter of the speaker then it cancels and the high frequencies radiate as a narrow cone of sound. That's why you can't hear your bass properly. Using a 4x10 and standing close is a bit like using a 24" driver, unless you are dead in line you can't hear any detail because of comb filtering. Just take the 2x10 to practice, put it on a table or tip it back to point at your ears, tell your guitarist to turn down. With that amp you should be able to more than drown out the drums anyway. Cut the bass a tiny bit on your eq and you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I agree that your band is too loud. We're a loud band, and our lead guitarist has downsized to one of the new Peavey 50 watt 5150 heads so he can get his sound at lower volumes. Also, those blue drivers that Ashdown used to use can be very focussed towards low frequencies - you might need to drop the bass a bit and boost somewhere higher up to hear yourself perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) Of course if you guitarist is using a lot of bass in his sound then it can make the bass guitar sound indistinct and muddy. My guitarist changed his main guitar from a tel to a Gretch semi (which has a lot of low end) and it muddied up the sound bigtime. I knew I was loud enough because when he played a solo I could hear myself fine, then when he went back to rhythm I disappeared. He's gone back to his Tele now and I can hear my bass again. Edited October 18, 2013 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1382050460' post='2247429'] Pardon me but what is 'sound focus'? Can you explain the physics of this? [/quote] Basically, think why when you mic stuff, you put it close to the speaker. That's where sound is not affected by stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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