What new high-quality PA system for pub band?

[Dad3353]

Same here; our eldest (Guitar 1...) does the sound, usually, or I can do it if he's busy with whatever. We've both held consoles for festivals, so a voice+drums pub set-up is a doddle. We play for free, of course, so an equal split for an engi is easy enough to work out, though..!

[Subthumper]

The new Yamaha active cabs are pretty good and offer a seven year warranty. Sound good too. Worth considering.
Some interesting comments here regarding sound engineers. I get to talk to a lot of regular players in the guitar shop I work in and it always amazes me how much pa gear a lot of bands use. Even when using old school big backline a lot of guys are micing cabs and drums in a tiny venue with a pa using tops and bass bins. Surely it's over complicating the setup and far more than a small venue needs. You only need an engineer if you have a complicated setup.

[JTUK]

Also, pubs are too much work for the money anyway, IMO, so there is a limit to what you want to rig and another mouth to feed.

If you have a load in and out or around an hour each, including set-up/break-down, of course, you will not be able to charge for it.

Diminishing returns etc and I don't think a small P.A/gig needs mixing beyond the band anyway..
If you can't hear someone in the band...there is something pretty wrong IMO, and for pubs, it is that simple and basic.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1461500232' post='3035143']
Also, pubs are too much work for the money anyway, IMO, so there is a limit to what you want to rig and another mouth to feed.
If you have a load in and out or around an hour each, including set-up/break-down, of course, you will not be able to charge for it.
Diminishing returns etc and I don't think a small P.A/gig needs mixing beyond the band anyway..
If you can't hear someone in the band...there is something pretty wrong IMO, and for pubs, it is that simple and basic.
[/quote]Common arguments, but IMO they don't hold water. If you're taking pub gigs to get rich you should consider a different profession. As in any line of work entry level positions are a means to an end, not the end itself. If you want to get better gigs then you have to sound better, and if you want to sound better that means doing whatever you can to differentiate your band from the rest. That means good PA, and someone to run it. Even if he's not George Martin he will still give you something that no one on the stage can: a set of ears in the audience.

[taunton-hobbit]

I've mentioned this before, but a mate used to run a kit hire shop - he swore by Yamaha stuff - said it sounded 'right' and was (almost) idiot-proof plus it hardly ever went wrong..........

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Subthumper' timestamp='1461446024' post='3034762']
I get to talk to a lot of regular players in the guitar shop I work in and it always amazes me how much pa gear a lot of bands use. Even when using old school big backline a lot of guys are micing cabs and drums in a tiny venue with a pa using tops and bass bins. Surely it's over complicating the setup and far more than a small venue needs. You only need an engineer if you have a complicated setup.
[/quote]
[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461502105' post='3035172']
If you want to get better gigs then you have to sound better, and if you want to sound better that means doing whatever you can to differentiate your band from the rest. That means good PA, and someone to run it. Even if he's not George Martin he will still give you something that no one on the stage can: a set of ears in the audience.
[/quote]

I think this is the point where a decision has to be made. Bill is right of course a set of reliable ears in the audience will be the biggest thing you can do to improve your sound once you've got a basic package. Getting a decent mix is something that is going to make your band sound so much better than the other bands around and potentially get you more and better work. There's really no substitute for someone hearing what the audience hears.

However IME there is a shortage of people with decent ears who are prepared to give up their time to do the job week in and week out. I've never found one for any of my bands who can make every gig. That's where you pretty much have to make the decision to keep it simple, back line and vocals only PA. There's little point in miking up cabs etc if there is no-one to mix and if the technical help isn't always available you have to design a system that works without it.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461502105' post='3035172']...he will still give you something that no one on the stage can: a set of ears in the audience.
[/quote]

Just as an example of added value, many singers can benefit from a spot of reverb or delay (or both..?) ; even better if it's dosed for the right moment in a song. On the other hand, for making announcements, or 'banter', a rather dry mic is often the better choice. A sympathetic bloke on the console can juggle any relevant fx, enhancing the overall performance. No, not indispensable for many pub gigs, but when it's done right, it's worth having someone do it.
Just sayin'.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461502105' post='3035172']
Common arguments, but IMO they don't hold water. If you're taking pub gigs to get rich you should consider a different profession. As in any line of work entry level positions are a means to an end, not the end itself. If you want to get better gigs then you have to sound better, and if you want to sound better that means doing whatever you can to differentiate your band from the rest. That means good PA, and someone to run it. Even if he's not George Martin he will still give you something that no one on the stage can: a set of ears in the audience.
[/quote]

I know they don't make anyone rich but I can't see they would be worth the difference.
I'd rather put the money into the band and getting the right people than pay for someone who can't really make a difference.
I'll bet that our small venue sound is good at minimum... there is no reason why it wouldn't be and so I don't see what tangible difference he will make that makes him a 'must have' on the gig. That is assuming he is any good anyway.

And if I thought an engr on a pub date was a good idea..and you get the idea that I REALLY don't, as far as I'm concerned, the players would want his money shared to them anyway...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1461506067' post='3035215']
I think this is the point where a decision has to be made. Bill is right of course a set of reliable ears in the audience will be the biggest thing you can do to improve your sound once you've got a basic package.[b] Getting a decent mix is something that is going to make your band sound so much better than the other bands around and potentially get you more and better work. There's really no substitute for someone hearing what the audience hears.[/b]

However IME there is a shortage of people with decent ears who are prepared to give up their time to do the job week in and week out. I've never found one for any of my bands who can make every gig. That's where you pretty much have to make the decision to keep it simple, back line and vocals only PA. There's little point in miking up cabs etc if there is no-one to mix and if the technical help isn't always available you have to design a system that works without it.
[/quote]

Or as I would do, I'd trump that with a better player and would see that as far far better value for money.
If we are talking small shows and club type venues, then that is different... but bands should really be able to self mix in a pub.
I agree some don't or can't but their problems might not be solved by an engr either.,.