The Most Overpriced Bass

[Lowender]

[quote name='pierreganseman' timestamp='1383133816' post='2260530']
And another senseless thread about Fodera being worth it or not bla bla bla.....

They sell every basses available within hours..

And the standards all sold out within hours too..... bla bla bla...

must be doing something right......

I owned 4, not for me in the end.... maybe one day a full on custom tailored for me.... but not quite yet ;-)
[/quote]

What's your point? You agree? Disagree? Just want to be disagreeable? Fodera's sell out? So what. It's interesting that you owned FOUR and decided they weren't for you but choose to complain about a thread where someone felt they didn't live up to expectations.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Lowender

[Gust0o]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383132792' post='2260518']


I don't think anyone has said that the more you spend the better something gets?

All I'm doing is pointing out that there is a significant difference between 'overpriced' as an adjective and 'expensive'.

In simple terms my understanding of overpriced is that something has been deliberately marked/sold at a price well beyond both its intrinsic worth and its functional or aesthetic value.

Expensive is a much more subjective term and open to a far wider interpretation.

My thoughts are that there are quite a few expensive instruments out there but, in most cases, I can understand why they are priced at a high level because of materials and manufacturing costs. Meanwhile there are way more overpriced instruments on the market that have been produced cheaply and then marked up by a significantly higher margin because of 'perceived' value / brand heritage / clever marketing / dealer incentives etc. etc.
[/quote]

Good post. There is a significant difference between expensive and overpriced - and, of course, both are again in large measure subjective value judgements.

I do wonder if there isn't an elephant in the room with us.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Budbear' timestamp='1382495631' post='2252875']
In my humble opinion (as humble as we New Yorkers are with our opinions), the only overpriced basses are the ones that don't sell. You see them on the shop walls, dusty, poorly set up, with dead strings, priced reduced several times, and yet, not cheap enough for someone to buy. People will buy most anything if the price is right. I'm involved in the retail end of the industry and that's the reality of MI sales.

Just a word about Fodera. The price list linked to above is mostly suggested retail, not selling prices. Dealers give discounts. Nonetheless, they are expensive.
I know Vinnie and Joey personally, and, in fact, am quite friendly with Joey (BTW, his last name is Lauricella, not Fodera. That's Vinnie's name) so I may be a bit biased. I live 15 min. from the Fodera workshop in Brooklyn. All their instruments are handmade, with immense care & meticulous craftsmanship. All their components are top quality. It's a small business, but they treat their employees well with a fair wage and excellent benefits and great respect. No one in that shop is getting rich. They all live in middle income, working class neighborhoods. Overhead is high in NYC. Customer service is extraordinary, and every customer that goes to the shop gets either Vinnie or Joey's personal attention and time. All that stuff costs money. Every customer is treated alike and well, whether your name is Victor Wooten or Joe Schmoe. Nobody gets a *star* endorsement deal. The margin is too slim for that even if they had that mindset.
They may or may not be your cup of tea, but there is no denying their quality and, seeing as how well their resale prices hold up and how quickly they're snapped up when flipped, their value. I have played several but I don't own one, not because I think they aren't worth it, but because I don't play out nearly enough anymore to justify such an expense even at dealer's cost. Although, you never can tell. I just might sell off most of my collection someday and use that to get a custom Monarch made to my specs and cross that off my bucket list.

Last words: Play what you like. If it makes you happy, it was worth whatever you paid for it. Be groovy to each other.
[/quote]
Good post -
The thing is in another thread if we were talking about a business working building high end whatever, staying in the city near the users, paying decent wages and healthcare and working hard to come up with really well repeated products we would be excited that,
a) we can still do that kinda high end low volume stuff in the west.
it seemed to be run ethically in terms of looking after employees…
c) people are doing stuff and making stuff and making it well and making a business model work

but something seems to happen when the thing is something, well we kinda want, and well "why is it so expensive yadda yadda yadda" …
Fodera are doing something well and making it work. Thats a good thing, not a bad thing.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383141316' post='2260672']
What's your point? You agree? Disagree? Just want to be disagreeable? Fodera's sell out? So what. It's interesting that you owned FOUR and decided they weren't for you but choose to complain about a thread where someone felt they didn't live up to expectations.
[/quote] i think you've misread what he was saying there - I think his point was that as they sell everything they make the must be doing something right and the critique of them is a bit dull. I don't think his owning four and selling them was a complaint about them - just saying he hadn't clicked. I could say I've owned 4 fenders and sold them all but hope to get another good one one day - it's not a complaint against my appreciation of Fender. anyway….

[pierreganseman]

i think you've misread what he was saying there - I think his point was that as they sell everything they make the must be doing something right and the critique of them is a bit dull. I don't think his owning four and selling them was a complaint about them - just saying he hadn't clicked. I could say I've owned 4 fenders and sold them all but hope to get another good one one day - it's not a complaint against my appreciation of Fender. anyway….


+100000 and thanks.... Critique of them is just boring and has been seen and done a billion times on talkbass. The whole thing my squier sounds better than my Fodera type of thread.....

I won't respond to this thread anymore as its clearly a waste of time. If I need opinions about Fodera I'll go ask Molan / Barrie as he knows his Fodera homework.

[Lowender]

Not quite the same. One of the main points of special made instruments is that they don't require trying out dozens of them. You order one, pay a fortune and wait 6 months and supposedly get the bass of your dreams. I think owning FOUR specially made $6000 instruments and not being satisfied with any of them is a statement in itself.

As for a company doing well, that's fine. (Of course, they don't sell very many overall, but the prices are so high and there's no middleman so they only need to sell a few each month). But how many they sell is of no concern to me as a musician. McDonald's sells a lot of hamburgers.

And if you think the topic is boring, why post? After 4 pages, it seems apparent it's something that others want to discuss -- if that's okay with you.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Lowender

[neepheid]

I've read most of this thread through pure morbid curiosity, and it makes me glum.

[molan]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383157978' post='2260997']

As for a company doing well, that's fine. (Of course, they don't sell very many overall, but the prices are so high and there's no middleman so they only need to sell a few each month).

[/quote]

I know you've owned a Fodera in the past but I don't think you have a very clear picture of their business (as evidenced by other comments you've previously made)

This year they will make a lot more than just a 'few' instruments. Current estimate is that they will produce just under 500 basses this year, that's about 40 a month.

They also have a full dealer network in place and sell a lot of these instruments through them. Each dealer has to adhere to a fairly strict quality control agreement and is able to act on Fodera's behalf for both standard and custom builds. They will sell direct to customers but rely on their dealers to represent them in many cases because they are a manufacturer of instruments rather than a retailer.

These dealers will be adding costs to each instrument sold (although Fodera dealer margins aren't anywhere near as large as many other builders) but they are taking care of much of the operation that a manufacturer can't - thus allowing the builder to do what it does best - make guitars

Fodera simply aren't the tiny business with massive overheads that charges a huge premium, without middlemen, in order to make excessive profits that you seem to think they are.

They're just a, very professional, operation that makes a decent profit (and there's nothing wrong with making an OK profit - all business should be expected to do this) and exercises a genuine duty of care for its employees. I really can't see what's wrong with that. . .

[shemeckfrac]

[quote name='elom' timestamp='1382192608' post='2249115']
The bass that you own but never play, that's the overpriced one.
[/quote]
No it's not! You get the value realised not only by playing it but by looking at it ... or hanging it on your neck and looking at the mirror .... priceless !

Edited October 30, 2013 by shemeckfrac

[shemeckfrac]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1382201100' post='2249258']
The winner has to be a Westone Spectrum 2. At £125 it was the most expensive piece of fire wood I've ever purchased...I could have bought a whole bloody tree for that
[/quote]

Agree! Westone bass would be overpriced if it costed 1p !

[discreet]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1383154246' post='2260930']
I do wonder if there isn't an elephant in the room with us.
[/quote]

It would certainly explain the smell.

[Lowender]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383162097' post='2261096']
I
They're just a, very professional, operation that makes a decent profit (and there's nothing wrong with making an OK profit - all business should be expected to do this) and exercises a genuine duty of care for its employees. I really can't see what's wrong with that. . .
[/quote]

Absolutely nothing. I presume the people who make Ibanez are nice people too. ; )

[molan]

Just realised that I hadn't actually replied to title of the thread so apologies for that.

Having helped out from time to time in a retailer I've seen a lot of instruments come and go at all price levels.

Picking the worst bass is easy, it was a 'custom build' eBay purchase that a friend picked up. It weighed a ton, balanced atrociously, had a neck attached with huge wood screws and the fretting was so bad it could tear the tips of your fingers if you tried to slide or even move quickly. The crowning glory was that the fret markers were at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 etc.

However it only cost about £40 and the owner spent a lot of time playing it and really getting back into bass playing (he's a drummer) so, for him, it seemed a fair price.

He most overpriced bass I can remember has to be an Olympic White Squier jazz. It was nearly new and just a nasty, cheaply put together instrument. The fretting was atrocious, sharp ends, badly seated and really unpleasant to play. Neck pocket was poor and badly finished as well. It had a thin nasally tone and pots that were mostly on or off with little variation.

For something that the previous owner had paid a few hundred quid for from new it was singularly the worst value for money I've ever seen in a bass so that gives it my, personal, 'Most Overpriced Bass' award

Edited October 31, 2013 by molan

[alstocko]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382158382' post='2248754']
Right off the bat -- if you love something and are willing to pay the price, it's worth it. Enjoy.

Now, let's move on, shall we?

One can argue that MIM aren't as good as a Squier VM, therefore it's overpriced, and that may be a viable argument. There are dozens of boutique and custom built basses that cost 10 times as much as a stock Fender but aren't 10 times as good so the cost can't be justified. Maybe.

But which company do you think is the most outrageously overpriced?

I have to go with Fodera. True, personally I'm not that impressed with the basses. They play well but don't sound all that great and don't look all that great. But that's subjective. And even if I loved them, I'd STILL think the price was nuts.

THIS [url="http://www.fodera.com/FoderaAdmin/Uploads/ContentDocument/Fodera%20Price%20List%20Feb.2013.pdf"]http://www.fodera.co...%20Feb.2013.pdf[/url] is not only obscene, it's insulting in my opinion. And those numbers are American dollars, so double that. (And add shipping costs from the U.S. )

And Fodera's don't even come finished! It's bare wood, so it looks worn just a few months after purchase. I feel this is a product that depends mostly on "snob appeal." The funny thing is, besides a few famous endorsees (who I assume get basses for free) it seems that the people buying these instruments are more hobbyists looking for that "dream instrument" than pros who need a solid workhorse.

No offense is intended toward Forera owners. But if there's anyone out there more bonkers in regard to cost, let's hear it!
[/quote]
Janek Gwizdala saved up for both of foderas and gets a small artist discount (he didn't get one on his first one) so he's spend $20k on fodera instruments. He says that he values them like he would a car