MM Stingrays?

[Highfox]

Hi.
After a bit of advice, I'm looking at getting another MM Stingray (I stupidly let the last one go, it was a 97 I seem to remember)
I'd like it to be in natural and maple with a 2 eq.. Are the pre EB's worth the extra, or would I be better off looking for a used Classic? I have my eyes on a 1977 atm and just wondering.

Cheers

[stoo]

I didn't much like the Classic that I tried. Didn't get long enough on it to really pinpoint why, but in the store they had a SBMM SUB, a Ray34 fretless and a Classic.... and of the 3 I far preferred playing the SUB! Maybe I've just got cheap taste though! (I've currently got an OLP MM22 as my main bass and love it)

[stingrayPete1977]

Pre eb are my personal favourite, we compared a real pre eb a few weeks ago to my classic 5 which also has a john east preamp, the pre eb blew mine away.

[Highfox]

Thanks.
I'm kind of set on getting a pre EB and keeping hold of it this time.
I think I really have too many basses already but been missing the Stingray since I sold it,

[drTStingray]

I'm sure there are lots of conflicting views on this but this is my take and I have owned both pre EB and currently have several EB ones.

The 2 band pick up and electronics remain as the post 1979 version - with the exception of a couple of safety mods to avoid battery drain and reducing the possibility of frying the circuit (by user error!).

All post circa early 90s Rays of all types have 6 bolt neck attachment with truss rod adjustment by a wheel at the body end - pre that they have four bolt with bullet truss rod and pre circa 79/80/81 3 bolt with accessible tilt mechanism. The 6 bolt version not only gives much more convenient access to adjust the truss rod it's a better joint system - much more rigid.

The body wood is thought by some to give a slight difference to the sound - solid colours between EB taking over and the late 90s may be poplar - slightly more mellow at the extremes of EQ than ash. Trans red usually alder - also mellower in the same way. Many early 80s colours except natural may be alder.

The classic differences from a regular EB are largely cosmetic - the strings through and mute bridge can give more sustain (mine is a sustain monster) and those mutes with flats can give thump to frighten any P bass into submission.

Your other key choice is 3 band versus 2 band. As someone who has used both on the same gig the 3 band has more versatility in those rooms with nasty boomy acoustics and also those bands with nasty guitarists who spend to long trying to fill the lower frequencies - the 3 band gives more versatility - with a 2 band I'd deal with this from my amp if I needed to - and it would be the upper mids.

If you're on a budget a US made sub will do the job - a regular two band will do the whole job with a little less beauty than a classic but at a much reduced cost. 3 band is more versatile and more plentiful used.

If vintage is your bag pre EB is good but comes with the same health warning as any vintage bass - for me the late 80s early 90s basses are also iconic - combining birds eye necks and in some cases cool rare colours.

And then there's the anniversary and two pick up models...........!!! Hope you find one you like.

Edited October 21, 2013 by drTStingray

[drTStingray]

For pre EB bear in mind there are about six different versions of the pre amp between 76 and 79.

I think there will be far more difference caused by player fingers and technique than you'll detect from different pre EB pres. I once tried a very early production 76 Ray - it didn't have enough treble sizzle for my liking.

[Highfox]

Thanks for all that dr.
I might now have to wait as it seems I'm not first in-line for the pre EB I was looking at.
No real harm as it will save me some £ and give me a good excuse (like I need one) to scan the basses for sale on here.

All I know so far is that I'd like it to be natural with a maple neck and 2 eq pref.

[drTStingray]

Natural/maple is THE classic Stingray combo IMHO. Maybe worth trying some in shops to keep the GAS burning strongly! Best of luck with getting one anyway.

[Musicman20]

I've recently picked up a brand new EBMM Classic 5 in natural/birdseye maple, and I was astonished at the quality.

It really is a work of art. The birdseye on the neck is insane.

I would personally opt for a modern take on the classic bass, because it keeps the good modern features that make an EBMM easy to maintain.

If you look around, a new Classic 5er can be had for about £1700 in the upgraded natural or the sunburst type colours, (is one called retro burst?!).

That, compared to say the prices of a Sadowsky Metro, should be considered.

[doctorbass]

I really liked the 2 that I had apart from the weak G string. Are they all like that??

[drTStingray]

No not at all. They have great string to string balance - just record yourself to hear that - you can also hear that with the instrument soloed.

Because they have a massive bass sound with the EQ on full/ heavy bass boost it tends also to be scooped like that. You don't lose the G string you lose the apparent mids when standing in the band if you insist on using full bass boost. Rest assured the audience still hears it.

You find most Stingray players don't have this problem. What you doing playing on the G string anyway - you're a bass player eh????!!!!

Edited October 22, 2013 by drTStingray

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1382289579' post='2250165']
Pre eb are my personal favourite, we compared a real pre eb a few weeks ago to my classic 5 which also has a john east preamp, the pre eb blew mine away.
[/quote] ouch, was that painful to find out?

[PTB]

I miss my old 78 Stingray but it was so heavy. I sold my 5 a few years back for similar reasons. I now have a fretless 85 with 3 band eq, which sounds fantastic and is much lighter. At some point, I would like a fretted one from this era to match it. I suspect it would be a lot cheaper than a pre-EB too.

[CamdenRob]

Which Stingrays are the ones with the figured maple necks? are they the new classics?

[artisan]

[quote name='doctorbass' timestamp='1382389465' post='2251684']
I really liked the 2 that I had apart from the weak G string. Are they all like that??
[/quote]
the ones i owned were,had one with 2 band eq & one with 3 band eq,i even put a Nordstrand pickup in one which helped a bit but not much.
No amount of adjustment on either the bass or amp sorted the problem out,i couldn't hear it,my band couldn't hear it & the audience couldn't hear it either.
I think they look gorgeous but i wouldn't buy another.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382439326' post='2252081']
Which Stingrays are the ones with the figured maple necks? are they the new classics?
[/quote]

Yep...they are usually highly figured and come with the following:

Birdseye or flame highly figured neck (therefore opt for maple fretboard!)
Vintage tint/lacquer on the neck and fretboard
Chrome truss rod wheel
Standard nut
Chrome battery cover
Vintage logo
2 band EQ single H
Through body stringing
Mutes on the bridge (very cool!) with adjustable screws
For the first time EVER, a 2 EQ 5 string with a normal Ray scratchplate

[Musicman20]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1382440605' post='2252095']
the ones i owned were,had one with 2 band eq & one with 3 band eq,i even put a Nordstrand pickup in one which helped a bit but not much.
No amount of adjustment on either the bass or amp sorted the problem out,i couldn't hear it,my band couldn't hear it & the audience couldn't hear it either.
I think they look gorgeous but i wouldn't buy another.
[/quote]

I hear this quite a lot (not the G string issue, the actual complaint about it). I haven't experienced it, but apparently its down to EQ and the natural sound of the electronics. Different technique, strings, setups etc will make a difference, eg some hear it, some don't.

This is one of the reasons the Bongo is so popular, and part of the reason the electronics were created. It's EQ/electronics refuses to allow anything like this!

Also, the Ray 5 does not have a weak G!

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382442958' post='2252131']
Yep...they are usually highly figured and come with the following:

Birdseye or flame highly figured neck (therefore opt for maple fretboard!)
Vintage tint/lacquer on the neck and fretboard
Chrome truss rod wheel
Standard nut
Chrome battery cover
Vintage logo
2 band EQ single H
Through body stringing
Mutes on the bridge (very cool!) with adjustable screws
For the first time EVER, a 2 EQ 5 string with a normal Ray scratchplate
[/quote]

Thanks for all that, much appreciated... A Ray I heard someone playing the other day was a 3EQ model, is the sound of the 2EQ radically different?

Think I'm going to get one, there is a nice looking black one on the marketplace for what looks like a fair price...

Rob

[Musicman20]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382443806' post='2252150']
Thanks for all that, much appreciated... A Ray I heard someone playing the other day was a 3EQ model, is the sound of the 2EQ radically different?

Think I'm going to get one, there is a nice looking black one on the marketplace for what looks like a fair price...

Rob
[/quote]

Not massively different. The low and highs are less 'extreme' on the 3EQ...I think the bass is set at a lower frequency on the 2 EQ, and the 2 EQ's just seem to sizzle more, but also have this organic inherent fatness that is just brilliant to hear.

The 3EQ is the same tone; only Ray enthusiasts could tell the difference! What I like on the 3EQ is obviously the mids, which with say a dual pickup bass like a HH or HS, leads to many many different tones as well as the classic Ray tone.

As we all know, every bass will sound different due to wood/strings/pickup winding etc...none are identical. The last HH I sold (to get a 5HH) had such a wonderful bridge humbucker....it was one of those moments when I first heard it of 'that's THE tone'....plus it had 4 other pickup positions!

If you opt for a 3EQ, try a dual pup bass as well!

Then try a Bongo...totally odd instrument but boutique quality and stunning electronics/ergonomics.

I sound like a fanboy, and I guess I am, and I have not always had 100% smooth runnings with EBMM's (probably because I have had a LOT) but it never ever stops me realising they are my favourite bass guitars...

The last two I bought were just absolutely perfect. In fact, this makes me want a single H Bongo now....ARGHHHH!

Edited October 22, 2013 by Musicman20

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382444804' post='2252166']
Not massively different. The low and highs are less 'extreme' on the 3EQ...I think the bass is set at a lower frequency on the 2 EQ, and the 2 EQ's just seem to sizzle more, but also have this organic inherent fatness that is just brilliant to hear.

The 3EQ is the same tone; only Ray enthusiasts could tell the difference! What I like on the 3EQ is obviously the mids, which with say a dual pickup bass like a HH or HS, leads to many many different tones as well as the classic Ray tone.

As we all know, every bass will sound different due to wood/strings/pickup winding etc...none are identical. The last HH I sold (to get a 5HH) had such a wonderful bridge humbucker....it was one of those moments when I first heard it of 'that's THE tone'....plus it had 4 other pickup positions!

If you opt for a 3EQ, try a dual pup bass as well!

Then try a Bongo...totally odd instrument but boutique quality and stunning electronics/ergonomics.

I sound like a fanboy, and I guess I am, and I have not always had 100% smooth runnings with EBMM's (probably because I have had a LOT) but it never ever stops me realising they are my favourite bass guitars...

The last two I bought were just absolutely perfect. In fact, this makes me want a single H Bongo now....ARGHHHH!
[/quote]

Yeah there certainly do seem to be a lot of options... I just heard one for the first time in ages at a gig on Saturday night and it sounded great, admittedly the guy playing it was pretty awesome anyway, but the tone was perfect.

I think maybe I'll try a 3EQ single pick up to start with as that is what this guy was playing. Hopefully one will turn up somewhere near London in the marketplace....

Edited October 22, 2013 by CamdenRob

[Lowender]

I have a 97 Sting Ray and a 2012 SUB Sting Ray. There may be differences in the internal make up but there's next to no difference in playability and sound. The only difference is the SUB cost a fifth of the price.

Get one. You won't regret it.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382452908' post='2252308']
I have a 97 Sting Ray and a 2012 SUB Sting Ray. There may be differences in the internal make up but there's next to no difference in playability and sound. The only difference is the SUB cost a fifth of the price.

Get one. You won't regret it.
[/quote]

I'm pretty much sold to be honest... just got to wait for the right one to come along somewhere near where I live...

[Dingus]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382443806' post='2252150']
Thanks for all that, much appreciated... A Ray I heard someone playing the other day was a 3EQ model, is the sound of the 2EQ radically different?

Think I'm going to get one, there is a nice looking black one on the marketplace for what looks like a fair price...

Rob
[/quote]
[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382444804' post='2252166']
Not massively different. The low and highs are less 'extreme' on the 3EQ...I think the bass is set at a lower frequency on the 2 EQ, and the 2 EQ's just seem to sizzle more, but also have this organic inherent fatness that is just brilliant to hear.

The 3EQ is the same tone; only Ray enthusiasts could tell the difference! What I like on the 3EQ is obviously the mids, which with say a dual pickup bass like a HH or HS, leads to many many different tones as well as the classic Ray tone.

As we all know, every bass will sound different due to wood/strings/pickup winding etc...none are identical. The last HH I sold (to get a 5HH) had such a wonderful bridge humbucker....it was one of those moments when I first heard it of 'that's THE tone'....plus it had 4 other pickup positions!

If you opt for a 3EQ, try a dual pup bass as well!

Then try a Bongo...totally odd instrument but boutique quality and stunning electronics/ergonomics.

I sound like a fanboy, and I guess I am, and I have not always had 100% smooth runnings with EBMM's (probably because I have had a LOT) but it never ever stops me realising they are my favourite bass guitars...

The last two I bought were just absolutely perfect. In fact, this makes me want a single H Bongo now....ARGHHHH!
[/quote]

Just to endorse what Gareth has said here , I really wouldn't get too hung up about the sonic difference between a two and three band Stingray , or indeed over the differences between a pre and post Ernie Ball model . They all sound far more similar than they do different , if you see what I mean . That Stingray tone is so distinctive that , even if there are slight timberal differences between different models , what comes out of your speakers will still sound like a Stingray , no matter which you end up choosing.

If you enjoy the sound of a Stingray then I too would recommend checking out the Bongo . It's a hotrod of a bass guitar with all the punch of a Stingray but a bit more defined and articulate midrange that seems to get you heard a bit better than the 'Ray. The sound is 100% Music Man but with a definite 21st Century spin on it that can be addictive. I like the HH model best, but all configurations are terriffic. Highly recommended.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1382454325' post='2252337']
Just to endorse what Gareth has said here , I really wouldn't get too hung up about the sonic difference between a two and three band Stingray , or indeed over the differences between a pre and post Ernie Ball model . They all sound far more similar than they do different , if you see what I mean . That Stingray tone is so distinctive that , even if there are slight timberal differences between different models , what comes out of your speakers will still sound like a Stingray , no matter which you end up choosing.

If you enjoy the sound of a Stingray then I too would recommend checking out the Bongo . It's a hotrod of a bass guitar with all the punch of a Stingray but a bit more defined and articulate midrange that seems to get you heard a bit better than the 'Ray. The sound is 100% Music Man but with a definite 21st Century spin on it that can be addictive. I like the HH model best, but all configurations are terriffic. Highly recommended.
[/quote]

That's reassuring, I'm not going to end up choosing a model that is lacking in the tone I want it for! I'll keep an eye out for any local ones that look good.

Never heard a bongo but the general consensus seems to be pretty much as you've said here... very positive.

[Lowender]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382453364' post='2252318']
I'm pretty much sold to be honest... just got to wait for the right one to come along somewhere near where I live...
[/quote]

I'm not sure what the shipping is to the U.K. It's free in the U.S and NO TAX. They also run 15%off specials , which make this bass around 150 quid. [url="http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/sterling-by-music-man-s.u.b.-ray4-bass-guitar"]http://www.musicians...ay4-bass-guitar[/url]

I'd recommend going used but they're relitively new and it seems whoever gets one, keeps it.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Lowender