MM Stingrays?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1382424409' post='2251838']
ouch, was that painful to find out?
[/quote]
I half expected it and unfortunately what I have is the closest possible option of what is essentially a reissue of a bass that never existed, a 5 string pre eb. I went for the john east as it was developed to sound as close s possible to a real pre eb circuit too, it basically has more bottom and more top if required. The bass is stunning though and plays great too

[stingrayPete1977]

Here she is
[IMG]http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af100/stingraypete/20130623_172713_zps44232f7c.jpg[/IMG]

[stoo]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1382472501' post='2252674']
I half expected it and unfortunately what I have is the closest possible option of what is essentially a reissue of a bass that never existed, a 5 string pre eb. I went for the john east as it was developed to sound as close s possible to a real pre eb circuit too, it basically has more bottom and more top if required. The bass is stunning though and plays great too
[/quote]

Is the 2EQ in the classic the same as a regular EBMM 2EQ? Is there all that much difference between either and the John East ones?

[stingrayPete1977]

[IMG]http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af100/stingraypete/20130623_171159_zpsda369c66.jpg[/IMG]
Black one is the best, 2007 body transition model with all the new updates other than it is ceramic not alnico but it has a 2004 neck rather than the pau ferro fretless and matched headstock it left california with, I swapped the pearloid plate for a genuine gloss black one too, its brilliant and always sounds good live or recorded.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='stoo' timestamp='1382473125' post='2252687']


Is the 2EQ in the classic the same as a regular EBMM 2EQ? Is there all that much difference between either and the John East ones?
[/quote]
They are meant to be electronically identicle to the last 79> version but mine was really lifeless, it may have been damaged in some way? I got the bass in a trade rather than new. JE does a sneaky 3 band version in two pots but I wanted to keep it as a 2 band as I have 2 other 3 band rays anyway. The John East circuits just have more of everything no matter which bass you have, the p bass circuit that charges via the jack socket is brilliant!

Edited October 22, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[donkelley]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1382352645' post='2250911']
Natural/maple is THE classic Stingray combo IMHO. Maybe worth trying some in shops to keep the GAS burning strongly! Best of luck with getting one anyway.
[/quote]

yes, but they all sound like a stingray... subtle differences aside, you can count on any color scheme or 2/3 band pre or type of string to still be the amazing stingray tone.

I know that's a classic stingray design, natural with maple, but I personally am not a huge fan of the natural finish stingrays because they look like the gibson ripper knock off to me at first glance. Remember, the ripper came first - 3 years before the stingray... and the standard ripper finish was natural with maple fingerboard!

another great, iconic, if VERY different... bass guitar.

Edited October 24, 2013 by donkelley

[Dev70]

Thanks to this thred I've learned a lot about my stingray but was wondering how to find out what year it could be cheers

[drTStingray]

Although the Gibson Ripper came first I suspect Fender set the scene by introducing natural finishes at the beginning of the 70s - thus Gibson and musicman followed the fashion.

Dev70 - if you join the Musicman bass forum you can post your serial number and they'll give you the date it became a bass!! Unless it's a pre EB - in which case the best you can get is to check approx date against others on Musicman.org which is an independent site. Or take the neck off (something I would personally hesitate about doing)

[Dingus]

[quote name='donkelley' timestamp='1382653112' post='2255201']
yes, but they all sound like a stingray... subtle differences aside, you can count on any color scheme or 2/3 band pre or type of string to still be the amazing stingray tone.

I know that's a classic stingray design, natural with maple, but I personally am not a huge fan of the natural finish stingrays because they look like the gibson ripper knock off to me at first glance. Remember, the ripper came first - 3 years before the stingray... and the standard ripper finish was natural with maple fingerboard!

another great, iconic, if VERY different... bass guitar.
[/quote]

Nowadays the Ripper is recognised for being a terriffic sounding bass , quite rightly so , but at the time it sold relatively poorly and was not well thought of by bass players , on the whole . The reputation and desirability these basses now have is very much something they have aquired relatively recently.Ironically enough , these basses found favour with post-grunge era bass players because they were cheap because no one wanted these big , ungainly and very heavy bassses. They had one in a shop I used to frequent in the late 1980's literally for years with no interest whatsoever. . They once offered to sell me it for £90 and mince and onion pie from the shop down the street , so pessemistic were they that anyone would ever buy it . Did I buy it ? Did I f*** .

It is a long history of similaly fateful bad decisions that have kept me poor.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Dingus

[funkgod]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1382440605' post='2252095']
the ones i owned were,had one with 2 band eq & one with 3 band eq,i even put a Nordstrand pickup in one which helped a bit but not much.
No amount of adjustment on either the bass or amp sorted the problem out,i couldn't hear it,my band couldn't hear it & the audience couldn't hear it either.
I think they look gorgeous but i wouldn't buy another.
[/quote]


[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382443529' post='2252143']
I hear this quite a lot (not the G string issue, the actual complaint about it). I haven't experienced it, but apparently its down to EQ and the natural sound of the electronics. Different technique, strings, setups etc will make a difference, eg some hear it, some don't.

This is one of the reasons the Bongo is so popular, and part of the reason the electronics were created. It's EQ/electronics refuses to allow anything like this!

Also, the Ray 5 does not have a weak G!
[/quote]

The problem is in my view, EB cant be arsed to change the pickup design,
musicman20, Most of the G drop in vol i feel it is not down to the Eq, you are lucky if yours does not have the drop in vol,
as alot of them have on the 4 string ray for i think two main reasons....
1) on most stingrays if you look down on top of the G string to the G polepiece you will see that the G string misses the cent of the pole by about a 1/4, ie it is not in the centre of the pole piece,

2) if you look at all the poles from the back of the bass you will see that the 4 middle poles are raised and the 2E and 2G are down,

So when playing say a walking line across A,D,G, the vol will drop when you get to the G, as the D&G are closer and more cent to there poles,
i know some are going to say the poles follow the curve of the fretboard as so the strings would be the same heights, but me for eg i like my strings flat.

Now you cant raise the G side of the whole pickup as all you will do is make the D string even louder defeating the point,
there is a cure, im not saying do this, but i have had to do it on all my stingrays.
i have photo's on here somewhere showing this ( its an old topic !)
you cant push up the outer poles as the coil tensions are holding them fast and you could damage
the coils
but you can push down the 4 middle poles to the same height as the outer 4 or even slightly lower
so then when you do raise the pickup on the G side it will have more effect on the G....
Phewww
if that makes sense

artisan i'm the same as you, i cant use my stingrays live now at all, i don't want to get rid of them.
but when compared to the G&L the drop in G vol is much more apparent, Maybe that's why Leo made the G&L with adjustable poles ?,
I also have never known this drop in G on any of the jazz basses i have or had or tried, Anyone ??

EB should of sorted this out long ago, Com-on ernie, sort it out.

Edited November 7, 2013 by funkgod

[mcnach]

Not convinced *at all* that not having the string centered over the polepiece has any significant effect in volume, Otherwise string bending would result in clear alterations in volume, something I have not experienced in any guitar or bass... and yes, I bend strings on bass

[Dingus]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1383856903' post='2270155']
Not convinced *at all* that not having the string centered over the polepiece has any significant effect in volume, Otherwise string bending would result in clear alterations in volume, something I have not experienced in any guitar or bass... and yes, I bend strings on bass
[/quote]

I was just about to make this same point about the pole pieces' alignment not effecting volume . I have it on good authority that most conventional pickup designs put out a magnetic arc over and around the pole pieces. so their accurate positioning is not critical. If you look at the neck pickup pole pieces on an EBMM HH configured bass they are well off centre with no apparent loss of volume or tone. A lot of Stingray's certainly are affected by this problem , and by the same token , plenty are not , and it's another reason why I prefer the Bongo / Reflex to the 'Ray myself.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Dingus

[funkgod]

ah, i see what you are saying, and so i have just tried it to see if there was a drop when bending a string. there was a bit of a drop but not much,
noticable on the two of them with the string more off than on than the others.
i had 4 stingrays and one pre eb sabre the worst stingray which had bad G dropout i sold,
so now i can only test the 3 rays left and a sabre.
So..
of the 3 rays left 2 of them (see att) had the pole off on the g, and 1,
my black one has the G smack bang in the middle but the E is a 1/4 out
(funny enough which has the best vol on the G)
the sabre is the best out of the 4
All of them have the 4 middle poles pushed in which did make a diff..

When i bend the G string on the black one yes your right not much noticable drop if any,
the sunburst one i feel there is, which i dont bend anyway as its fretless,,
but i do wish the g was louder on that, which is even more noticable on this being a fretless i feel.

[u]Reg the height[/u], plug in play an open string, now press the pickup down just a bit ( its on springs so goes down quite easy but dont force it incase the lugs are caught on the screw threads) when moved down just a few mil you can hear a noticable drop in loudness, thats all it takes,






[attachment=147900:IMG_4422.jpg]
[attachment=147901:IMG_4425.jpg]
[attachment=147902:IMG_4423.jpg]
[attachment=147903:IMG_4426.jpg]

Edited December 13, 2013 by funkgod

[4 Strings]

I've used Stingrays as no.1 bass for a while now, 1980, 2002 and 2007.

Soft 'G'. The pups have very strong magnets, if they get too close to the string the sound weakens and has a sort phased effect to it. Set the pup further away and set it to optimise on the 'G', then set the 'E' side of it to balance. It is a common mistake to move the pup too close to the 'G' to make it louder, but the optimum point is not as close as possible, but 4-5mm away.

Unless someone has posted it before, this is the worst place to go for GAS. However, you can find out almost everything you need to know, including the likely age of your bass. I promise you, you will pay anything for an old 'Ray having spent too long here.
http://www.musicmanbass.org

For me, the most important change was the necks. The early Pre-EBs have wonderful slim (front to back) necks that I love. The recent basses seem to have baseball bats in comparison.

Also they have man size string spacing, which I also love.

Maybe I just I love pre-EB Stingrays!

Oh, and the 2007 one I had weighed a ton!

[Dev70]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383844970' post='2269926']
Although the Gibson Ripper came first I suspect Fender set the scene by introducing natural finishes at the beginning of the 70s - thus Gibson and musicman followed the fashion.

Dev70 - if you join the Musicman bass forum you can post your serial number and they'll give you the date it became a bass!! Unless it's a pre EB - in which case the best you can get is to check approx date against others on Musicman.org which is an independent site. Or take the neck off (something I would personally hesitate about doing)
[/quote]

[Dev70]

Thanks Dr

[stingrayPete1977]

The poles off centre thing has lots of flaws, the volume drop is only as the string tension and damping is occurring, try holding the string bent right between poles and pluck it there, it makes no difference at all. Play a solo and bend the strings on a strat to see how it makes no difference there and what about angled pickups that are used straight or angled?
The magnet damping the string because the pickup is too close because of people trying to raise the g volume is the chief suspect, lower the whole pickup right down and raise the treble end until it gives a nice clear output with no magnet damping then in a band setting (most important imo) raise or lower the bass side until the bass has an even output, simples as annoying people say

Edited November 8, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Musicman20]

To be honest, I've played a few P basses with very strong E strings, aggressive A strings, and weak D and G strings. Could be anything, but it is not just about the Stingray!

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1383908788' post='2270606']
The poles off centre thing has lots of flaws, the volume drop is only as the string tension and damping is occurring, try holding the string bent right between poles and pluck it there, it makes no difference at all. Play a solo and bend the strings on a strat to see how it makes no difference there and what about angled pickups that are used straight or angled?
The magnet damping the string because the pickup is too close because of people trying to raise the g volume is the chief suspect, lower the whole pickup right down and raise the treble end until it gives a nice clear output with no magnet damping then in a band setting (most important imo) raise or lower the bass side until the bass has an even output, simples as annoying people say
[/quote]

Exactly . If you play the HH EBMM basses , because of the taper of the string spacing , the neck pickup pole pieces are way off centre in comparison to the bridge pickup , yet it makes no difference whatsoever ,. Those massive pole pieces and hefty magnets will be putting out a big electrical field and a few millimeters either way will be irrelevant. On some pickups with bar magnets like some of the Alembic designs , the magnetic bars actually stop quite a distance before the ends of the pickup where the top and bottom strings are , with no apparent drop in output.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1383908914' post='2270611']
To be honest, I've played a few P basses with very strong E strings, aggressive A strings, and weak D and G strings. Could be anything, but it is not just about the Stingray!
[/quote]

I've had annoying problems with uneven output /tone from string to string on all kinds of basses( although never on a Stingray myself , funnily enough ) , so you definitely not wrong there , Gareth . There can be all kinds of causes, though , not just the pickup design or placement .

[Prunesquallor]

Uneven note output was a key reason why Flea stopped using Stingrays. Here he is after recording One Hot Minute:

"[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][size="1"][size="2"][size="3"][size="2"]The Alembic isn't as in-my-face as the Music Man, but the high notes are as loud as the low ones, from the bottom of the neck to the top, which is a problem on the Music Man. I probably could have used the StingRay for the entire album, but when we go to record, I always think I need the best bass for recording.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/font][/size][/font]"

The rest of the interview's here: http://rhcprock.free.fr/fleamalandrone.html

[stingrayPete1977]

I read that as going up the register towards the body rather than across the strings? As in the e string would get quieter as you go up.I can't see why a modulus would be any better either if it's a technical problem with the bass especially a some people say they changed the pickup and the preamp without curing it, where does it end?

[stingrayPete1977]

I read that he uses a ray five for recording these days but never live,i don't get that either really?

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384000771' post='2271706']
I read that he uses a ray five for recording these days but never live,i don't get that either really?
[/quote]

Who knows? I guess there's no perfect bass, even for him with all the money he's had to throw at it. Viva la GAS!

[gareth]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1382348364' post='2250824']



If vintage is your bag pre EB is good but comes with the same health warning as any vintage bass - for me the late 80s early 90s basses are also iconic - combining birds eye necks and in some cases cool rare colours.


[/quote] +1 - I have a beautiful fretless 88 in the for sale thread this very minute