Why does JAZZ seem to be so widely disliked?

[xilddx]

Mention 'jazz' to people and, aside from a few who like it, the reactions seem to be very negative, some even hostile. People don't react like this to 'classical' music do they? So why is jazz the recipient of so much unfair stereotyping and derision? Or is it? Mention 'metal' or 'hip hop' to a lot of people and they might react similarly.

[Clarky]

Its just to wind up Bilbo

[ML94]

What kind of stereotypes are 'attached' with Jazz? I've always loved it and many others do, it really is musicians music

[Clarky]

To be serious, I think its just because it doesn't follow simple verse, chorus, verse, chorus etc and therefore becomes somehow mysterious, intellectual and 'pseud-y' to many. Probably the same would apply if you played some of the prog rock excesses (eg, 'Tales of Topographic Oceans') to many people. The fact it routinely has the p*ss taken out of it in populat culture ("Nice ...") probably doesn't help either.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1382294700' post='2250297']
Mention 'jazz' to people and, aside from a few who like it, the reactions seem to be very negative, some even hostile. People don't react like this to 'classical' music do they? So why is jazz the recipient of so much unfair stereotyping and derision? Or is it? Mention 'metal' or 'hip hop' to a lot of people and they might react similarly.
[/quote]
I am a teacher.

I have some classical music playing while the class works.

Female student says "I don't like this music".

I say "Why not?".

She says "Because it's jazz".

[Spike Vincent]

I will start by saying that I have no issue with people liking or playing jazz. But I hate it. It grates.It's just wrong.Each to their own, but it's not for me.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1382294826' post='2250299']
Its just to wind up Bilbo
[/quote]

Absolutely. Nige, did you not get the email?

I think Clarky has it nailed. I think it's part politics of identity and a perception that has developed around Jazz. It doesn't follow the musical rules; it has a perception of exclusivity, of intellectualism and manner that isn't open to everyone; and it's a feedback loop, that has begun to play back upon itself, and many us on the outside are happy to live with the parody

Also, to annoy Bilbo.

[bassace]

I've been doing jazz for most of my playing career, still to good audiences, although of a certain demographic, so I don't accept that it's widely disliked. But a typical reaction often is 'I don't like jazz but I like what you play'. So the question is fair; there seem to be a lot of people who don't like jazz. and there still is quite a lot of verse, chorus, verse, chorus in jazz although a lot of that format underpins improvisation.

[Clarky]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1382295351' post='2250319']
I will start by saying that I have no issue with people liking or playing jazz. But I hate it. It grates.It's just wrong.Each to their own, but it's not for me.
[/quote]
There are a zillion types of music that fall under the grouping'Jazz'. Wes Montgomery playing guitar, Ornette Colman playing free jazz, Bill Evans' piano trios, big band jazz like Duke Ellington, bebop like Charlie Parker, the 60s experimentation of Miles Davis and so on. I am non-plussed by some of it, love some of it (eg Bill Evans), hate lots of it (free jazz etc) but its a hell of a broad grouping. Do you really hate all of it?

[bassace]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1382295534' post='2250328']
Absolutely. Nige, did you not get the email?

I think Clarky has it nailed. I think it's part politics of identity and a perception that has developed around Jazz. It doesn't follow the musical rules; it has a perception of exclusivity, of intellectualism and manner that isn't open to everyone; and it's a feedback loop, that has begun to play back upon itself, and many us on the outside are happy to live with the parody

Also, to annoy Bilbo.
[/quote]

But it does follow the music rules a lot of the time, otherwise I couldn't go out as a freelance and nail it.

[Marvin]

I think it's to do with it not being particularly accessible to most people. A lot of it is not easy to listen to for most, and I include myself in that. To me there seems to be a preoccupation about being technical for technical sake at the detriment to creating something that 'speaks' to the audience. It's like people who get carried away with all the technical attributes of a car but fail to mention it drives like a dog.

ML94's mention of it being musician's music hits a chord with a lot of people, but I'm afraid in a negative way. It gives the impression that it's the music of a clique, you have to get it.

I like, listen and own quite a wide range of music...but I don't think any of it's jazz

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1382295534' post='2250328']
... It doesn't follow the musical rules; it has a perception of exclusivity, of intellectualism and manner that isn't open to everyone; and it's a feedback loop, that has begun to play back upon itself...
[/quote]
... and I was thinking it was dance music.

[lojo]

If these questions ever get answered logically it would be rather sad in some ways

[ambient]

Didn't realise it was widely disliked.

If it was then why would most towns and cities around the world have bother to have jazz festivals each year ?

Why is there a national Jazz FM radio station ?

Why are there magazines and books devoted to it ?

Why am I playing in a jazz band at a posh wedding next Saturday night ?

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1382295670' post='2250332']
There are a zillion types of music that fall under the grouping'Jazz'. Wes Montgomery playing guitar, Ornette Colman playing free jazz, Bill Evans' piano trios, big band jazz like Duke Ellington, bebop like Charlie Parker, the 60s experimentation of Miles Davis and so on. I am non-plussed by some of it, love some of it (eg Bill Evans), hate lots of it (free jazz etc) but its a hell of a broad grouping. Do you really hate all of it?
[/quote]

Yes.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1382294700' post='2250297']
Mention 'jazz' to people and, aside from a few who like it, the reactions seem to be very negative, some even hostile. People don't react like this to 'classical' music do they? So why is jazz the recipient of so much unfair stereotyping and derision? Or is it? Mention 'metal' or 'hip hop' to a lot of people and they might react similarly.
[/quote]

You should try mentioning country music!

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1382297506' post='2250381']
Why is there a national Jazz FM radio station ?
[/quote]

Do you mean to say Jazz FM have started to play jazz?

[Gust0o]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1382295736' post='2250335']
But it does follow the music rules a lot of the time, otherwise I couldn't go out as a freelance and nail it.
[/quote]

Maybe that's back to perception, then

[redstriper]

Is this Jazz?

If so I like it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edUGRcKHccA&feature=share&list=PL4CF8C1F37C208FFC[/media]

[jakenewmanbass]

Jazz was once upon a time, folk music...
Now, in the hands of many people that call themselves jazz musicians it is music played by musicians that have got their chops together and have a major desire to show other musicians the [i]e[/i][i]xtent[/i] to which they've got those chops together.
That type of jazz doesn't sound like music to me.
And this is coming from someone who has played a ton of jazz through my working life.
There is plenty of really good jazz being played by some awesome musicians in this country and elsewhere eg Mike Walker and Gwilym Simcock playing in the 'Impossible gentlemen' a band with Adam Nussbaum and Steve Swallow. Mike is an old mate of mine and one of the finest jazz musicians I've played with, so there is great stuff out there, you just need to be judicious and learn to realise when you've just got a noodler/showboater in front of you.
It is of course all subjective!

I did a jazz gig in Reading this lunchtime, was a blast!

Edited October 20, 2013 by jakenewmanbass

[Lord Sausage]

Maybe it's an aquired taste. i hated it when 16 and at music college. By the end of college i freakin loved it!

[ubassman]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1382295736' post='2250336']

ML94's mention of it being musician's music hits a chord with a lot of people, but I'm afraid in a negative way. It gives the impression that it's the music of a clique, you have to get it.

[/quote]

I'm into jazz. I find it really intriguing improvising my "lines" and changing the whole shape and vibe of whats going on ...but then following the new direction of the other players. The vibe is "king" and its ever changing - fascinating stuff to play.

...and thats exactly the problem. It sometimes requires the listener to figure out whats happening and enjoy the discussion between the musicians. If the person listening doesnt hear or see that, the music will probably just pretentious, over complicated crap with too many showy-off notes.

On balance I personally I would rather listen to Jazz than the latest multi million pound single from the manufactured 'pop-up' star and winner of X factor. Theres something a lot more sinister about the latter but seems to be thats what the masses want to hear !

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoY0Qa0zU0A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoY0Qa0zU0A[/url]

[AntLockyer]

Tubby Hayes - Down on the Village. The moment I heard it anything I thought about jazz went out of the window and I was hooked. However I'm only hooked onto that hard swinging and easy to understand melodic stuff. I do like other forms of jazz but can understand why people don;t want to listen to difficult music.

[Beer of the Bass]

I have never quite got why some people find the notion of jazz offputting, but many do. I remember putting on Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz album (the one with the double quartet panned left and right) in a cafe I worked in, then observing the bemused expressions of the customers. I'd had several espressos already that morning and was really getting in to the music. Oddly, the manager didn't seem to share my enthusiasm when she came back...

Edited October 20, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[leschirons]

I think it all depends on what demographic you're talking about. If by "people" you mean other musicians, then I think it can be percieved as a " you have to be in the club" thing and folks will naturally kick back against that, especially, if it's something that is out of their comfort zone playability wise so, they adopt the "don't understand it, so won't like it" stance rather than investigate what it's all about and see if there is something in it for them.

If we're honest, all jazz hating musicians would probably secretly love to be "able" to play all that stuff even if they had no intention of ever doing so. We'd all get to be in the club then

However, if you're talking about the non musical man in the street, they are likely to group it all under the heading of "modern jazz" whereby they really mean "5 blokes playing 5 different tunes and I've no idea what's happening" So, in this case I think the problem is instant accessibility (or rather lack of) as I've found that in order for me to appreciate some jazz, I needed to invest a little more as a listener compared to something by One Direction

[ubassman]

Towards the end of a longish set we were playing a string of slower jazz ballads ...bit of a spit and sawdust pub and getting late when a rather wobbly female punter staggered up and asked, 'do you know any "happy jazz"? , this is 'doing my f****ing head-in jazz'. Maybe thats part of the problem with the perception of jazz - its inherently a kinda blue form of music!

Edited October 20, 2013 by ubassman