PA on a budget.......

[martthebass]

The drummer less trio I'm in currently uses some backing (keyboards, drums) and we use gear which is less than portable....Peavey Hysis 2s, Peavey CS1200 and CS800. The gear belongs to the Vocalist and his car (and back) are suffering. So we're lookin at offloading the above and getting a lighter more portable option. mackie came to mind but what would be the compromise in terms of sound quality? Any advice would be appreciated.

[JTUK]

RCF ART active series should be available new for £800 a pr and would be my choice and clear out those amps and cabs.

[Stealth]

Mackie aint what they used to be well the Srm 450 unreliable in my experince since they moved production to china

RCF are much better sounding too

[Phil Starr]

You ought to give us a budget really. I can't see you compromising the sound at all, those Peaveys aren't great sounding. EV,JBL, Yamaha are all likely to be better and the RCF's a lot better,

[crez5150]

These are blinding for the money.....

[url="http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/Electro-Voice_ZLX12P_Active_PA_Speaker/EV-ZLX12P?CAWELAID=1830897689&catargetid=1820282893&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CNLn1sDgqroCFbPItAodlh0AKQ"]http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/Electro-Voice_ZLX12P_Active_PA_Speaker/EV-ZLX12P?CAWELAID=1830897689&catargetid=1820282893&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CNLn1sDgqroCFbPItAodlh0AKQ[/url]

[martthebass]

Budget after disposals around the £750 mark....but happy to add stuff (sub etc) later. Those EVs do look blinding Crez...do you have personal experience of them?

[bertbass]

Haven't used those EVs but I use 3 of these, http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Voice-Force-Monitor-12-Speaker/dp/B000PGMNOA for fold back and they are bl**dy amazing and they are the budget range as well.

[Phil Starr]

Don't get too carried away by the power rating, if you look carefully the output in decibels is 126dB underneath is the ELX with the same power rating but 132db output which will be noticeably louder. The RCF Art 312 is rated at 400W but gives out 127dB. 126dB is pretty loud but this is obviously fitted with their less capable speakers compared with the elx112. If that is what you can afford then there's nothing wrong with that but just be aware of what is on offer and compare dB not watts.

The great thing about all of these is the protection given to the speakers by having DSP, they should prove to be more reliable as you won't be able to overload them.

I've not used the EV's but a lot of bands do use them round here and I've heard some nice sounds coming out of them, not sure they were these models though.

you might find this interesting [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may12/articles/yamaha-dxr.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may12/articles/yamaha-dxr.htm[/url] and there might be reviews of some of the other offerings on the same site. All of these are going to sound much better than what you have.

Make a short list and go and listen to them before choosing.

[crez5150]

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1382459702' post='2252426']
Budget after disposals around the £750 mark....but happy to add stuff (sub etc) later. Those EVs do look blinding Crez...do you have personal experience of them?
[/quote]

Yeah I have.... Though I do work for EV so I would expect you to think me biased. For the money there is nothing that can touch them. A really good quality low cost active speaker. My advice is to go and have a listen at your local dealer..... They have become our best selling product which is amazing since it was only launched at the Messe this year.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1382485020' post='2252854']
Don't get too carried away by the power rating, if you look carefully the output in decibels is 126dB underneath is the ELX with the same power rating but 132db output which will be noticeably louder. The RCF Art 312 is rated at 400W but gives out 127dB. 126dB is pretty loud but this is obviously fitted with their less capable speakers compared with the elx112. If that is what you can afford then there's nothing wrong with that but just be aware of what is on offer and compare dB not watts.

The great thing about all of these is the protection given to the speakers by having DSP, they should prove to be more reliable as you won't be able to overload them.

I've not used the EV's but a lot of bands do use them round here and I've heard some nice sounds coming out of them, not sure they were these models though.

you might find this interesting [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may12/articles/yamaha-dxr.htm"]http://www.soundonso.../yamaha-dxr.htm[/url] and there might be reviews of some of the other offerings on the same site. All of these are going to sound much better than what you have.

Make a short list and go and listen to them before choosing.
[/quote]

Couple of things.... it's a very different product to the ELX... thats got a different power stage, speaker and enclosure. ZLX is a completely brand new product in every respect.

They are plenty loud enough for use on their own or as a mid/high top in a system. From every dealer we demo'd these too they all agree they give the RCF boxes a good run for their money. The RCF boxes are excellent but the EV ZLX are approx £120 per pair cheaper than the RCF units

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1382530435' post='2253228']
Yeah I have.... Though I do work for EV so I would expect you to think me biased. For the money there is nothing that can touch them. A really good quality low cost active speaker. My advice is to go and have a listen at your local dealer..... They have become our best selling product which is amazing since it was only launched at the Messe this year.



Couple of things.... it's a very different product to the ELX... thats got a different power stage, speaker and enclosure. ZLX is a completely brand new product in every respect.

They are plenty loud enough for use on their own or as a mid/high top in a system. From every dealer we demo'd these too they all agree they give the RCF boxes a good run for their money. The RCF boxes are excellent but the EV ZLX are approx £120 per pair cheaper than the RCF units
[/quote]

That's my point really. The EV's he is looking at are engineered to a price and there is a limit to their capability as a result. In this case the efficiency. I'm making no comment on the internals I can only see what is on the EV website. EV say the amps are the same power, are you saying that is a mistake?

I'm not knocking EV whose stuff I generally like, I've just been singing through my EV mic, so much better than the SM58. I've recently said its a make to look at.

One of the ways in which manufacturers can save a little on costs is to cut the size of the speaker magnets which has implications for bass power handling and efficiency. With DSP the excursion limiting is not going to damage the speaker but the bass will probably be more compressed with this model compared with the more expensive EV or some of the rivals. Most speakers in this market boast output figures around the 130dB mark, this one is 4db lower so maximum volume is going to be noticeably less. Since we don't know what maximum volumes the user will need or whether bass is going to be a problem I'm not making a recommendation but I just wanted the OP to know what to look for, and what they would get by buying the next model up or an alternative.

126dB is seriously loud but a tad short of current standards, it may sound lovely, you can send me one to test if you want

I don't work for EV or anyone else .

[hamfist]

Just one man's experience here, but I bought an EV ZLX-12P active cab. It quickly developed a buzz/fuzz type of sound, but only when the cab was on it's side (in monitor position). The first runs of this model have something of a reputation for having a speaker lead touch the cone, which is what I assume was happening to mine.
I sent it back for a warranty fix. It returned back, a month later full of loose rattling buts/bolts whatever !!!

Not impressed with EV here. Thankfully Andertons were very reasonable and gave me a no quibble full refund.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1382536781' post='2253341']
That's my point really. The EV's he is looking at are engineered to a price and there is a limit to their capability as a result. In this case the efficiency. I'm making no comment on the internals I can only see what is on the EV website. EV say the amps are the same power, are you saying that is a mistake?

I'm not knocking EV whose stuff I generally like, I've just been singing through my EV mic, so much better than the SM58. I've recently said its a make to look at.

One of the ways in which manufacturers can save a little on costs is to cut the size of the speaker magnets which has implications for bass power handling and efficiency. With DSP the excursion limiting is not going to damage the speaker but the bass will probably be more compressed with this model compared with the more expensive EV or some of the rivals. Most speakers in this market boast output figures around the 130dB mark, this one is 4db lower so maximum volume is going to be noticeably less. Since we don't know what maximum volumes the user will need or whether bass is going to be a problem I'm not making a recommendation but I just wanted the OP to know what to look for, and what they would get by buying the next model up or an alternative.

126dB is seriously loud but a tad short of current standards, it may sound lovely, you can send me one to test if you want

I don't work for EV or anyone else .
[/quote]

Just because an amp RMS power rating is the same doesn't mean that the SPL figures will be. The thing with SPL figures is that most manufacturers do not give enough information as to how they are achieved. 130dB at what frequency/distance/period.... not many will give you true info on that. RCF and JBL give true figures.... EV and Dynacord also. Not many other manufacturers do though.
As I said earlier its a completely new product... so new Amp module, speaker, cabinet.... new speaker baffle design.... completely different to anything else in the range. I'd suggest you go compare a ZLX 12P side by side with any other speaker on the market in this price range..... it will compete with the more expensive products easily in terms of clarity, SPL and efficiency. The bass extension on the 12P is quite something compared to the other manufacturers....




[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1382550881' post='2253585']
Just one man's experience here, but I bought an EV ZLX-12P active cab. It quickly developed a buzz/fuzz type of sound, but only when the cab was on it's side (in monitor position). The first runs of this model have something of a reputation for having a speaker lead touch the cone, which is what I assume was happening to mine.
I sent it back for a warranty fix. It returned back, a month later full of loose rattling buts/bolts whatever !!!

Not impressed with EV here. Thankfully Andertons were very reasonable and gave me a no quibble full refund.
[/quote]

Yep there was an issue with an early run where the cable to the illuminated badge on the front was too long by about 2 inches.... which meant that when oriented into the monitor position it laid against the speaker causing a vibration. This batch was recalled an customers offered either a replacement or refund if they were not happy. They are covered by a 3 year warranty so any manufacturing issues in that time would be covered. Interesting to hear that you had it returned with rattling bolts though....